Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Altitude settings for air missions

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> The War Room >> Altitude settings for air missions Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Altitude settings for air missions - 12/23/2002 1:35:45 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline
The altitude setting for air missions will depend on the type of mission, the type of plane performing that mission, and the expected opposition. In some cases, such as CAP and Naval attack, planes will be performing two missions simultaneously. This will complicate matters somewhat since the optimal altitude for one of these missions may differ from the alternate mission. Let us start with the less complicated missions and work our way up to the more complex air strikes involving multiple plane types.

1) ASW
The common mythology is that ASW patrols should fly at 1,000 feet. Though I have not really run any tests to determine if this is the optimal altitude, I have had good success with my planes attacking enemy subs when my planes fly at 1,000 feet, so I will keep them there until someone can show me that there is a better altitude. The few times I have set the ASW patrols to 100 feet have not yielded very many dividends even when I knew there was a sub in the area.
The Japanese player has a lot of float planes to work with and that have few combat missions for which they are acceptable. ASW patrols will be one of the main missions for these planes.
Check you AV's. They all have float planes assigned but these planes will not fly while the ship is at sea. I generally take these planes off the AV's and base them at the base where the AV is, though this is not necessary. At any rate, try to balance the number of float planes at a base with the number AV's and CS's there so these ships are servicing float planes while the base forces are servicing land based aircraft. Optimize your air support assets since as the Japanese player these are in very limited supply. Important note: The CS ships for the Japanese can launch float planes even while at sea. AV's cannot do this. CS's, therefore, can be treated in many regards as an aircraft carrier that only carriers float planes. You can readjust the mix of planes on your CS's, but whatever mix you decide on, these planes should be left on the CS and not off-loaded onto the base where the CS is stationed.
Pete's have a very short range and should be given over to ASW duties. Jakes have a moderate range and can perform either Naval Search or ASW. When I have a cruiser that has two sections of Jakes I often have one section perform ASW while the other section performs Naval search. Alf's on the other hand have a very long range and should be devoted to Naval search. Daves have a short range and should be set to ASW patrol.
Once you have some CS's available they can be included in your air combat TF's to perform naval search and ASW. For instance, if you have one CS loaded up with 20 Alf's, these can perform Naval Search while your Val's and Kate's are set to 0% naval search. This will allow you to have the maximum number of bombers involved in your Naval air strikes. Another CS might be loaded up with Dave's or Pete's in order to perform ASW. You also have two squadrons of Rufe's available and these can be based on your CS's, thus adding to your task force's CAP.
For the American I like to use Hudson's for ASW patrol. These planes are very vulnerable to Japanese CAP and have less durability than the American bombers. Therefore, I prefer to keep them out of harm's way while still performing a valuable service.
The American Seagull does not have a very impressive range and so it might seem like an ideal candidate to perform ASW. On the other hand, US DD's are very effective in the ASW role, thus making the need for ASW aircraft less vital. Therefore, when in a position where spotting enemy TF's is vital these planes should be performing naval search and they can be switched over to ASW when close to home.
A-20's have a rather short range in comparison to other level bombers. Until their short range can be effective, such as when based at Port Moresby or Lunga, these planes can be given over to ASW.
Finally, don't forget that flying ASW or Naval search can be an effective way to train up green pilots.

2) Naval Search
Since the last section mentioned the Naval search mission quite a bit we do not need to go into too much detail about that here. For the Japanese, Mavis's and Emily's will be the work horses for Naval search. Although these planes can perform other functions, such as transport, ASW, and recon, their replacement rate is not high so the Japanese player will generally avoid having them perform any of these any other missions. Because of their extremely long range, the japanese player is at a great advantage in keeping track of allied naval movements.
For the Americans, Catalina's will obviously be mostly performing Naval search missions. It might also be useful to use B-17's in this role because of their very long range. Historically, B-17's were quite often used in the Naval Search role.
Since Naval Search planes default to an altitude of 6,000 feet I leave them there. This seems to have worked out well and I have not lost very many planes to enemy flak. I assume that if they were set lower then these loses would climb.
Planes performing Naval attack missions can also have a portion of the squadron devoted to naval search. For the Japanese, as explained above, I generally do not have my Val's and Kate's perform any naval search since the planes on the CS ships can preform this role. For the Americans it is probably best to have some percentage of the SBD's performing naval search. Ten percent is probably an acceptable level.

3) Recon
The best planes for this mission are the dedicated recon planes since they have the best chance of success both in uncovering the enemy's strength and in avoiding enemy CAP. These planes default to 20,000 feet and this altitude seems to be effective. It avoids the enemy's CAP, for the most part, and still has a good chance of raising the detection level of the units in the target hex. For other planes this altitude may be too high, but going lower may expose the aircraft to increased risk of being intercepted. The player will need to evaluate the level of risk before setting the altitude for planes doing recon.

4) Transport
Transport aircraft default to an altitude of 6,000 feet and I have not found any reason to change this level.

5) Sweeps
Fighters set to sweep need to be set to 100 feet for them to strafe the target hex. As of vers 2.3, they must also pass experience tests as well. Obviously, a Zero attacking at 100 feet is not going to have the same sort of advantage over a P-39 that it would at 15,000 feet. Thus, you can set your altitude to 100 feet in order to strafe, or you can set your altitude high in order to engage in dogfights only.

6) Port Attack, Ground Attack, Airfield Attack
In general, the lower level bombers fly the more accurate they will be. The trade off is in the amount of damage they will incur from AAA. Dive bombers differ from level bombers because they will climb to 8,000 feet if their altitude is set lower than 8,000 feet and then dive down to 1,000 feet to drop their ordinance. In general I would recommend that dive bombers not be used for these types of attacks except, perhaps, as training missions against lightly defended targets. Dive bombers should mostly be reserved for naval attacks, although using them for ASW patrol can be an effective way to increase your ASW capability and train up lower quality pilots.
Assuming the goal of you port/ground/airfield attack is to damage the selected target, then a good altitude is 6,000 feet. At this altitude your bombers will suffer less AAA damage and be almost as effective as if they were flying at 1,000 feet. In addition, level bombers that fly at an altitude of less than 5,000 feet will suffer morale penalties should they sustain damage meaning they will be less likely to fly on the next turn.
An altitude of 6,000 feet may be the best choice if you are hoping to inflict maximum damage to an asset in the shortest time possible. But it may not be the best choice when you are contemplating a long term bombing campaign that will gradually degrade the selected asset until it is no longer operational and then to keep that asset out of service. At 6,000 feet the enemy's CAP will have an easy time intercepting your missions and his AAA will cause quite a bit of damage. The higher you bombers fly the less AAA they will encounter, while the enemy's CAP is degraded by the need to climb to meet you. (Only a portion of the planes in a squadron flying CAP will be in the air at any given time, meaning the rest of the planes will need to climb up to the bombers' altitude.)
For the American player, as an example, B-17's are a scarce asset that should be conserved. For these bombers the best strategy may be to start at a very high altitude, say 20,000 feet, and then have them fly lower until they start to suffer unacceptable losses. In addition, as the enemy's supply situation is degraded it may be possible to fly lower since AAA may become less effective as distributing supply becomes increasingly difficult.
For the Japanese, Betty's and Nell's make for very poor bombers. They are best used in a Naval attack role. Nevertheless, using these bombers as bait for the enemy's CAP is a common tactic. In the early game when the American player has many P-39's that operate poorly at altitudes above 10,000 feet, it may pay dividends for the Japanese player to send in Betty's and Nell's to attack an airfield assuming they have a large escorting force of zeros. By flying at 15 or 20 thousand feet the escorting zeros will have a great advantage over these less capable planes.
One should also not ignore the value of attacking an airfield at night. Bombers flying at night seem to accumulate less fatigue and are much less likely to encounter CAP. AAA also seems to be less effective at night.
Finally, you should vary your altitudes occasionally instead of becoming predictable. If you fly a few missions at 15,000 feet, your opponent will adjust his CAP altitude accordingly. If, on the next mission, your bombers come in at 6,000 feet your bombers may be able to fly right under the CAP as they desperately dive down to intercept you.

7) Naval Attack by level bombers
As of vers 2.3, bombers flying at 1000 feet will no longer be treated as if they were armed with exocets. Thus, it becomes questionable if it is worth it to fly this low, or even to use your level bombers for naval attack. Any level bomber that can carry torpedoes, such as Nells, Bettys, and Beauforts, can continue to be used in the naval attack role. Other bombers should be reserved for port, airfield and ground attacks. Once their experience level climbs above 70, however, they can be used to skp bomb by setting their altitude to 100 feet. I would avoid using B-17's in this role, however, since they are scarce and will suffer an appalling number of casualties. Instead, skip bombing should be reserved for highly experienced medium bombers.

8) CAP and escort
CAP and escort are intimately tied together because fighters flying CAP are normally doing so as part of an escort mission. Although your CAP will fly to whatever the level the enemy's bombers are at, the more they have to climb or dive, the less likely they will be to successfully intercept. Anticipating the attack altitude of the enemy, then, is important. For instance, if you are providing long range CAP over transports unloading onto a beach which the enemy can attack with level bombers, your CAP should be set no higher than 5,000 feet since it can be anticipated that he will be flying his bombers at 1,000 feet. (A slight height advantage, as long as it is not extreme, will give the interceptors and advantage against the bombers.) [edit: though 5000 feet may still be a good altitude for your CAP, expect more attacks at 6000 feet or 100 feet with vers 2.3]
Because the enemy may fly in at varying altitudes it is best to layer your CAP, especially over your carriers. Dive bombers can be expected to come in high while torpedo bombers come in low. Therefore, set one of your squadrons to 7,000 feet, another to 11,000 feet and a third to 16,000 feet. Selection of these altitudes is not only determined by considerations of CAP, but by the altitude you want your escorts to fly at. In general it is advantageous for your escorts to fly above the bombers so that they have an advantage over intercepting CAP. If you expect to be escorting bombers that are flying at both 15,000 feet and 5,000 feet to the same target you don't want all your escorts climbing to 15,000 feet. Rather, one group of fighters can escort the low flying TBD's while another group escorts the high flying SBD's. You should probably vary this out once and a while rather than letting yourself become stereotyped.

9) The Carrier Battle
The previous section discussed how your fighters should be allocated based on an assumption of the altitude your TBD's and SBD's will be set at. SBD's flying at 15,000 feet or above will attack in groups of 9 instead of 4. This seems to yield excellent results. TBD's on the other hand will dive down to between 200 and 100 feet when making their attack run, so setting their altitude very high makes little sense, generally. In fact, by splitting up your SBD's and TBD's into different altitudes you can hope to divide the enemy's CAP or put it out of position ala Midway. Generally, I try to have a good separation between the TBD's and SBD's. The SBD's (Val's) are set to 15,000 feet while the TBD's (Kate's) are set to 3,000 feet, though this can obviously be varied.
There is a myth that having TBD's fly at an altitude of 6,000 feet or higher will mean that they take less flak damage. From my experience this is not true. Setting them at 10,000 feet or 2,000 feet makes no difference as far as flak is concerned: they will only be shot at during their attack runs- - - i.e. at 100 or 200 feet. Therefore, the advantage of splitting up the enemy's CAP far outweighs any mythical advantage of avoiding some AAA.
For the Japanese, rather than having the Val's perform naval search I assign this mission to Kate's if no CS's are available. The Val's are my preferred ship killer since they take much less flak damage. Kate's die like moths attracted to a bright flame whenever they make a naval attack. Val's, on the other hand, have a much greater chance of surviving. For the Japanese this is survivability aspect is especially important since your replacement pilots will be very poor. With their higher survivability rate, even inexperienced pilots flying Val's will survive, thus gaining experience which will make them better ship killers during their next attack. Once a pilot has gained more than 70 experience his likelihood of hitting a ship will increase dramatically. Since it is easier to get pilots of Val's to reach this level, I want them to form the core of my attack force. The Kate's, meanwhile, can be spared somewhat by having them perform naval search at the 20% level.
For the Americans, because of the very short range of your Devastators, the Dauntless's should be the ones doing the Naval search. Because you have several squadrons of these planes available, a naval search level of 10% should suffice if all of them are set to this level.
As a final note, when assigning escort altitudes, you should have one group of fighters from a task force flying high while another group flies low rather than having all escorts in one TF fly at the same altitude while fighters from another TF fly at a different altitude. This is because strikes tend to be grouped by TF. For instance, if you have two air combat TF's operating together, call them TF 1 and TF 2, then there is a high probability that TF1 will send off a strike while TF 2 sends out a separate strike. Therefore, you want the fighters in TF1 to be flying at, say, 15,000 feet and 7,000 feet in order to protect both the TBD's and SBD's. If, instead, the fighters in TF 1 were set at 10,000 feet and 15,000, then your TBD's from TF 1 would have less protection, Conversely, if the fighters in TF 2 were set at 7,000 feet and 10,000 feet then your SBD's would not be as well protected.

10) Naval Missions with secondary assigments
From the above comments it can be seen that the proper altitude for Naval attack missions is different from other types of missions, such airfield attack, port attack, etc. Therefore, it may be best to have a secondary mission of rest for most of your planes. There are, however cases where this does not hold true. Nell's and Betty's, for instance, when engaging in Naval attack will drop down to 200 feet to make their attacks. Therefore, giving them a secondary mission and setting their altitude to optimize for that mission will not detract from their effectiveness in the naval attack role.
There may also be cases where you wish for your carrier borne dive bombers to engage in airfield attacks, i.e. to supress and airfield you are invading. Again, because the bombers will dive down to 1000 feet to drop their bombs no matter what altitude they are set at you can optimize their altitude for the naval attack role.

As always, you milage may vary.
Post #: 1
- 12/23/2002 9:00:36 AM   
HawaiiFive-O

 

Posts: 295
Joined: 12/21/2002
From: USA
Status: offline
These posts of yours are excellent. I've printed them up and have them on the desk in front of me while I play.

Thanks!

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 2
- 12/23/2002 10:52:13 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
Excellent analysis and well presented.

You might want to mention the Norden bomb sight penalty for American level bombers attacking at under 6,000 feet.

Also, level bombers only skip bomb when at experience level 70 or above. Skip bombing with B-25s can be devastating to transport-type ships and their escorts. A-20s are good at it, too. Skip bombers take a huge morale and fatigue hit, so you have to pick your opportunities carefully.

The carrier battle discussion is excellent, but you should add some treatment of how this changes for the Allies when TBFs become available. My approach then is to put all SBDs on "0" naval search and all TBF squadrons on 20 percent naval search (the TBFs are slightly longer ranged than SBDs). Also, the first couple of modern American battleships carry a few OS2U-3 Kingfisher float planes, which are excellent for naval search, as well (the little Seagulls are the next closest thing to useless, but can perform ASW patrol).

I agree with your remarks about the fragility of Kates, but this applies to all torpedo bombers due to the nature of the attack. In my experience, Kates are fearsome ship killers while still manned with experienced pilots in the early going, and it's good to get the most out of them while you can before Allied carrier TFs are covered by massive CAPs of good fighters flown by excellent pilots. Like you, I put a CS in Japanese carrier TFs to take care of the lion's share of the naval search function.

Lastly, I have seen some discussion in these threads about altitudes for CAP, and the jury still seems to be out on whether "layering" CAP is better than taking your chances with a single altitude. I have not studied this in any depth, but I have seen "layered" CAPs (which I do not favor) perform very poorly. This dovetails with the discussion of assigning various altitudes to carrier strike aircraft. To be honest with you, I am doubtful of the added value of dive bombers attacking from 15,000 feet. Yes, they attack in bigger clusters, but in the aggregate, I have not seen that the results are better. What this means (if it holds water) is that you can keep your dive bombers at the 10,000 foot default altitude, put your torpedo planes at 6,000 - 8,000 feet, and expect them to be well covered by escorting fighters all at 10,000 feet or 12,000 feet.

In any event, as you indicate, the subject of this last paragraph is the least settled, probably because it involves more "rock, paper, scissors" possibilities than any other area of altitude assignments.

Thank you for your fine work in bringing some order to the tangled skein that is UV player doctrine. Like Hawaii Five-O (book 'em, Dan-o), I have saved the various pieces you have given us and look forward to more. Great stuff.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 3
Layered CAP and strike altitudes - 12/23/2002 11:36:09 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline
I have now see from personal experience in a PBEM game that having a wide separation between the TBD's and SBD's can be very effective. But this depends on how your opponent has set his CAP. I had a section of Kate's set at 3,000 feet that came in with a strike of Val's flying at 15,000 feet. Unlike my usual experience, this time the Kates came off very well. I assume because the Kates flew under my opponent's CAP. The Val's did wel too because, apparently, they were flying well above the enemy's CAP. Every message I saw before the US attacked the Val's was "CAP climbing towards bombers" while every message for the Kates was "CAP diving on bombers." The Val's in particular did more damage than the should have (this was version 2.11) because, apparently, bombers can benefit from the height advantage just like fighters can.

Overall, I think this is a worthwhile tactic to use on occasion. But you should not become stereotyped. It worked on that one occasion because my opponent's CAP was positioned neither to intercept the SBD's nor the TBD's. I would recomment varying out your altitude settings so as to be unpredictable.

On the other hand, I believe there is a fatigue penalty if you fly too high. So naval attack missions should probably not go much higher than 17,000 feet.

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 4
Great post - 2/18/2003 10:13:07 AM   
boomboom

 

Posts: 80
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: philadelphia
Status: offline
A lot of good points,congrats.

_____________________________

I'm boomboom.I don't want to control the sea.I ain't no calvery general[horses stink].I don't want to fight the next world war.I want to go back to dog patch,and fall in love.

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 5
- 2/20/2003 5:47:52 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline
A good way of getting your B-17 crews trained up [I]without[/I] getting them killed is to operate them at 35,000........they will hit bugger all, but OTH no Jap fighters can can reach them.:D It is a good way of easing in green crews.

_____________________________




Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 6
- 2/21/2003 10:57:32 PM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raverdave
[B]A good way of getting your B-17 crews trained up [I]without[/I] getting them killed is to operate them at 35,000........they will hit bugger all, but OTH no Jap fighters can can reach them.:D It is a good way of easing in green crews. [/B][/QUOTE]

I prefer setting my 4 engine bombers to Naval Attack with 100% search set, particulary in an area where the IJN has shipping traffic. They will accumulate experience(maybe not as fast), and get a bomb hit or two, as well as the added benefit fo good spotting.

This is critical for B-24s, which take forever to repair, so I usually just use them for Naval Search with an occaisonal mission. At least until they get over 70 experience.

_____________________________


"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 7
- 2/22/2003 12:57:40 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
You might be better off setting them to a specific mission that does NOT take them into extended flight ranges.

There are additional opperational losses incurred when flying at longer ranges which are completely separate from the skill/fatigue losses, and occur at double the normal rate in extended ranges.

Assigning a mission for training purposes that has the low skilled pilots flying out to extended ranges is probably not the ideal way to get them better without killing them off.

You want to choose a mission type & target that keeps the planes within their Black circle (normal range) and have them fly from larger then 2 undamaged airbases as the combination of these keep the odds slanted in your favour as best as you can to have the pilots actually live to be useful members.

I have found alternating training from 100% to 0% (rest) gives better results then a fixed 30% training rate, as it gets more folks up and flying, yet keeps the entire groups fatigue low. Using a fixed percentage results in a fixed amount of your pilots perma-fatigued and means you have to stand down the unit to get these guys rested before a real mission.

One thing to watch for is a depleted squadron getting a batch of new aircraft. If the aircraft come in, so do new pilots to increase the squadron to strength. This results in a batch of 30%'ers mixed in with your experts who will immediately go up and write off those brand new aircraft due to the code changes that shifted the balance of who would fly missions. This adds a constant need to watch units that have taken heavy losses and happen to be in the fast replacement catagory as all they will do is burn through planes and pilots without actually getting better.

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 8
- 2/22/2003 3:46:12 AM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline
The underlying assumption is only use your 4 engine bombers at bases 4 or larger, as they will not repair otherwise.

That is one nice thing about naval search, you sometimes see damaged aircraft, but hardly ever experience operational losses.

And they are useful while they gain experience

_____________________________


"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 9
RE: - 5/31/2007 7:16:39 PM   
djanico

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 5/31/2007
Status: offline
Some other pointers for Air tactics.

1> FORECAST.. USE IT. If you see you got rainclouds, a bad thunderstorm. It is not advisable to do any sort of heavy air mission aside a light CAP. Your pilots will perform poorly, get hit with fatigue and take a morale hit. Instead use these days to rest up your crew and build their strength up.

2> USE YOUR REAR! Always have rear end units training, dont send every single plane to port moresby and expect to have a huge superbase. This is innefficient and having a limited runway will also limit the amount of planes you can launch, leaving other planes an easy duckshoot. Always have backup units in the rear training and rested to replace worn out air units. Which brings my next point..

3> R & R.. Air units that have very low morale will just flat out not perform anywhere near what they should. Move these units to the rear back to homebases and have them train around 20-30% and Rest. This will keep thier experience high and recover their morale back. Replace these units with rear units that are rested and trained, they may be green under the ear but they build experience fast and will perform allot more effective. Keep a balance and rotation going.

4> NIGHT OPS Night ops are very effective in not only training your green bombers but keep softening the enemy bases. If you are doing bombing run, have one unit do a day bomb and another do a Night bomb run at the same time, this will fatigue the enemy ground units by the constant bombardment and lower their AA value capabilities.

5> Softening Bases.  Adding to #4, Put your experienced bombers in the day at high altitudes (20k) during the day and your green bombers at night in lower altitudes (10-15k). Do this effectively rotate your bombing units, dont send your force all at once. Split your units so that you are able to carry bombardments 2-3days at a time day and night by sending "Bombing run" A on one day and then "bombing run" B the next day as A rests an recovers while B is runing.. and vice versa . This will hit fatigue hard on not only AA units in the gound but as well as CAP units trying to defend it. VARY your altitudes so that you are unpredictable!! CAP will have a hard time climbing or diving to you and hit their fatigue hard making it easier for your bombers to succeed in their mission. I always target their airfield 1st, set all your initial bombing runs to hit their airfield. This hurts their CAP trying to take off as well as any other air attacks on you. Once you feel you hurt their airfield dont let off! have one run hit the airfield constantly as another attacks their ports or ground forces. This will stop them from trying to rebuild their strip as you continue to pummel them in other areas.

6> DEFENSE Always have CAPS running in clear and overcast days, you can have designated fighters rotate CAP as some rest others are CAP'ing. Or you can divide CAP equally amongs the whole team at a decent % (50-60) and use rainy days and thunderstorms to rest them up. Always always observe the altitude and number of planes coming to you. Do you have sufficient experienced and rested pilots with good morale? Remember R & R and rotate your FS as needed. Remember that any ships coming into port need protection! have a unit always available to CAP task forces coming in.

(in reply to denisonh)
Post #: 10
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> The War Room >> Altitude settings for air missions Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.734