partial list of scenarios

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

partial list of scenarios

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> partial list of scenarios

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

partial list of scenarios - 4/25/2006 2:34:04 AM

Okimaw

Posts: 268
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Land of the brave, home of the Cree
Status: offline

I saw on a thread here something about a partial list of scenarios for TOAW 3 on here, where can I find it?

Post #: 1

RE: partial list of scenarios - 4/25/2006 3:05:06 AM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Okimaw

I saw on a thread here something about a partial list of scenarios for TOAW 3 on here, where can I find it?

If you're refering to what I think you're refering, it's a list of the scenarios supplied with COW.

To my knowledge, there won't be any scenarios which are new to the game when it's released. But there are many, many COW scenarios which it should be possible to convert.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Okimaw)

Post #: 2

RE: partial list of scenarios - 4/25/2006 3:18:53 AM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

quote:

ORIGINAL: Okimaw

I saw on a thread here something about a partial list of scenarios for TOAW 3 on here, where can I find it?

If you're refering to what I think you're refering, it's a list of the scenarios supplied with COW.

To my knowledge, there won't be any scenarios which are new to the game when it's released. But there are many, many COW scenarios which it should be possible to convert.

We're including all the scenarios that shipped with COW. We've also got a group looking at the best scenarios on the net, and cleaning them up a little if necessary, getting permission to publish them and organizing them into folders.

Oh, yes, we'll also take any COW scenario

_____________________________

Ralph Trickey
TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 3

RE: partial list of scenarios - 5/2/2006 9:12:02 PM

Okimaw

Posts: 268
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Land of the brave, home of the Cree
Status: offline

Just a post script to my original entry, In checking out the Matrix ad on this site it says 130 scenarios, didn't COW come with 80? Or am I mistaken?

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 4

RE: partial list of scenarios - 5/2/2006 11:24:47 PM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Okimaw

Just a post script to my original entry, In checking out the Matrix ad on this site it says 130 scenarios, didn't COW come with 80? Or am I mistaken?

I'm checking on that. I think that the 130 figure is scenarios that we pulled from the internet.

That would put the total to about 200 scenarios. The COW ones are of varying quality.

(in reply to Okimaw)

Post #: 5

RE: partial list of scenarios - 5/3/2006 2:30:10 AM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick
That would put the total to about 200 scenarios. The COW ones are of varying quality.

That's being polite. The scenarios which came with the original game tend to be among the worst, because the designers were doing them for the money rather than because they wanted to make a good scenario. Since it's impractical to pay anything like a reasonable hourly rate for the work needed for a good scenario, this led to some very half-arsed efforts. There are one or two exceptions, of course.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 6

RE: partial list of scenarios - 5/3/2006 3:49:44 AM

SurrenderMonkey

Posts: 124
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

As one of the scenario designers for the original game, I can assure you we didn't get paid anything. It was simply a labor of love.

_____________________________

Wise Men Still Seek Him

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 7

RE: partial list of scenarios - 5/3/2006 1:45:58 PM

DanNeely

Posts: 489
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline

I think it would be fairer to say the canned ones suffered from short development times and lack of indepth knowledge about how the engine worked.

_____________________________

Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man ... weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not [it] an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius

(in reply to SurrenderMonkey)

Post #: 8

RE: partial list of scenarios - 5/3/2006 3:01:40 PM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SurrenderMonkey

As one of the scenario designers for the original game, I can assure you we didn't get paid anything. It was simply a labor of love.

OK, I just recall talking about this with someone who was supposedly comissioned to make a scenario for Century of Warfare.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to SurrenderMonkey)

Post #: 9

ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/5/2006 4:34:25 AM

pbhawkin1

Posts: 158
Joined: 4/4/2001
From: Mudgee, Australia
Status: offline

Hi all,
SO does that mean that there is a general feeling that ACOW scenarios are not as good (whatever that means) compared to TOAW II scenarios??

_____________________________

Regards

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 10

RE: ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/5/2006 6:07:12 AM

rhinobones

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline

The discussion above is actually saying that the scenarios which came with the original TOAW-COW disk are not up to the standards of some of those who comprise the TOAW authoring community. Has nothing to do with TOAW II or the quality of any scenarios provided with the original TOAW II disk.

Should also note that Golden Delicious is one of a number of players/authors who�s criteria for �good scenario� requires an accurate Order of Battle and a scenario design that concludes in the historical outcome. Although I do have respect for this view point, I argue that the �fun� factor is the most important aspect of COW-TOAW. After all, it is a game, right? OOBs and history have little meaning to me as compared to the challenge of playing the game.

In this regard, some of the standard TOAW-COW disk scenarios that are considered junk might actually be quite entertaining using my alternative definition. In the end though, it is up to you to decide.

Golden Delicious does make an important point concerning the scenarios developed after the release of COW-TOAW. Again, some are good and some are questionable, but there are quite a few that are well tested and designed for player enjoyment. This is a development tool that the authors of the original COW-TOAW disk did not have the luxury of enjoying.

Suggest that you download and try as many scenarios as possible. Nothing better than your own opinion on a scenario. If you want to try a few 10 to 12 turn scenarios as PBM send me a Private Message.

Regards, RhinoBones

_____________________________

Colin Wright:
Comprehensive Wishlist Forum #467 . . . The Norm (blessed be His name, genuflect three times and accept all values in the program as revealed truth)

Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

(in reply to pbhawkin1)

Post #: 11

RE: ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/5/2006 4:59:40 PM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

Should also note that Golden Delicious is one of a number of players/authors who�s criteria for �good scenario� requires an accurate Order of Battle and a scenario design that concludes in the historical outcome.

Or at least, so you keep telling me.

If the game is in a historical setting, then the starting conditions really must be historical. Otherwise what's the point in calling it historical? However I also play hypothetical and even fictional scenarios. Note that for these, the starting conditions should also be reasonable. See your War of the Ring- would it be much fun to play if the Hobbits kept on thrashing Saruman on their own?

The historical outcome should be possible- but if that's the only outcome you can have, there's probably something wrong with the scenario. Some designers work like that, though.

quote:

After all, it is a game, right?

That and more. See the introduction to the manual.

quote:

OOBs and history have little meaning to me as compared to the challenge of playing the game.

Well, a historical scenario puts the game into context. Your actions have meaning which you can understand in terms of the real world.

Even looking at your own fictional scenarios, you endeavour to put them into some context. "Revisionist War" by its very title has been given a background and a reason for fighting. "War of the Ring" is set in a fictional world so rich that it's almost as compelling as the real one. You can't possibly deny that a familiar setting- which in the vast majority of cases means a historical setting- makes a scenario more interesting to play. A fictional setting is a trade-off for the purpose of removing the benefit of hindsight.

quote:

In this regard, some of the standard TOAW-COW disk scenarios that are considered junk might actually be quite entertaining using my alternative definition.

Well, even if we're to overlook that most of the scenarios are also pretty unbalanced since there was no time to playtest them properly, there's also the fact that because these scenarios present themselves as being historical, they are in fact deeply misleading. I keep coming back to "France 40"- this scenario actively serves to reinforce the commonly held myths about the campaign in question. Players come away from scenarios like this and think they understand the battle. It would be fine if the scenario had included a disclaimer to the effect that it was actually a work of fiction and is just intended for fun. It doesn't.

quote:

Suggest that you download and try as many scenarios as possible.

Quite. There's a huge range of works out there to suit any interest. There are also various ratings systems and "What's your favourite scenario" threads dotted around the internet.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 5/5/2006 5:03:58 PM >

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to rhinobones)

Post #: 12

RE: ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/5/2006 7:42:24 PM

Tim McBride

Posts: 586
Joined: 12/24/2000
From: Nebraska
Status: offline

I worked on a couple of the orignal scenarios and agree that they just are not that good; if the time to playtest them was available like we have now, and we had the current level of knowlegde of the system I think the in game scenarios would have been much better in the end result. I keep wanting to take the time and go back and fix the ones I did.

_____________________________

"Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon. But if they mean to have a war, let it begin here."-John Parker

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 13

RE: ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/8/2006 9:22:41 PM

a white rabbit

Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbhawkins

Hi all,
SO does that mean that there is a general feeling that ACOW scenarios are not as good (whatever that means) compared to TOAW II scenarios??

..give you a quick game of Curt"s Vietnam, then you tell me

_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..be�n'tus all..?,

(in reply to pbhawkin1)

Post #: 14

RE: ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/9/2006 12:31:07 AM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..give you a quick game of Curt"s Vietnam,

Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to a white rabbit)

Post #: 15

RE: ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/9/2006 1:59:53 AM

wyrmmy

Posts: 214
Joined: 7/19/2004
Status: offline

If I remember we had 4 or 5 weeks to do Kashmir, Plus in the life of my dealings with TS, I had numerous revisions to all scenarios I was involved with that were requested for inclusion in patches and not included. They also had 1 patch that reverted to version 1.0 of St Lo from about 1.6. Norm was not the only one having problems with that outfit. Oh, hey Tim. ;P

Bryan Corkill

(in reply to Tim McBride)

Post #: 16

RE: ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/9/2006 3:03:07 AM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wyrmm
Norm was not the only one having problems with that outfit.

You're not kidding. They threw us out of their own discussion boards not long after COW was released. Of course at that point we'd all already bought their game two or more times so they didn't need us any more.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to wyrmmy)

Post #: 17

RE: ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/9/2006 6:29:59 AM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

quote:

ORIGINAL: wyrmm
Norm was not the only one having problems with that outfit.

You're not kidding. They threw us out of their own discussion boards not long after COW was released. Of course at that point we'd all already bought their game two or more times so they didn't need us any more.

Crazy. It wouldn't do any good now, at any rate, there are too many other boards. I wonder if there's any relations there...

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 18

RE: ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/9/2006 2:57:46 PM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

Crazy. It wouldn't do any good now, at any rate, there are too many other boards.

It didn't do any good then, either. See, there was this certain wargaming company which already had a webforum and....

Well, here we are.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 19

RE: ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/12/2006 6:12:36 PM

hank

Posts: 623
Joined: 8/24/2003
From: west tn
Status: offline

I've been lurking here reading and waiting for the release of TOAW. I had the original but it was so long ago I can't remember any of the scenario's.

So, where do I go to find a list of scenario's supplied with this "soon to be released" game?

And, where do I go to see a list of user created scenario's that will be compatible with the "soon to be released" TOAW? (and is there a rating system for user scenario's?)

I'm very very interested.

Also, can anyone answer how many "stock" scenario's are WWII (east or west front; Axis vs Allies and Axis vs Soviet) ?

I hope I get an answer. I'm a long time player of Panzer Campaigns WWII battles. I haven't seen too many people make any comparisons between PzC and TOAW. I remember there were similaries between the two ... more so than between SSG (Battles in Normandy/Italy aka DBWWII) and TOAW. (I have played both DBWWII and PzC extensively).

Just another curious pbem warrior ... wanting to know more about a new experience

hank

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 20

RE: ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/12/2006 6:22:53 PM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hank

So, where do I go to find a list of scenario's supplied with this "soon to be released" game?

And, where do I go to see a list of user created scenario's that will be compatible with the "soon to be released" TOAW? (and is there a rating system for user scenario's?)

The scenarios to be supplied with the game are, as I understand it, all in the public domain anyway. Here's the main scenario archive;

http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/news.php

You should be able to answer your own questions there, especially using the scenario browser.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to hank)

Post #: 21

RE: ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/12/2006 7:55:07 PM

Vincenzo_Beretta

Posts: 440
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: Milan, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

Crazy. It wouldn't do any good now, at any rate, there are too many other boards.

It didn't do any good then, either. See, there was this certain wargaming company which already had a webforum and....

Well, here we are.

Not that the stunt theached them anything - the very first step out of the door for their "new company" had been a PR fumble worth of a graduation paper. At least it gave popularity to the word "carp"

< Message edited by Vincenzo Beretta -- 5/12/2006 7:57:19 PM >

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 22

RE: ACOW scenarios vs TOAW scenarios - 5/12/2006 9:04:00 PM

hank

Posts: 623
Joined: 8/24/2003
From: west tn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

The scenarios to be supplied with the game are, as I understand it, all in the public domain anyway. Here's the main scenario archive;

http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/news.php

You should be able to answer your own questions there, especially using the scenario browser.

Thanks !! That's a great site. Just what I was looking for. Some of those scenario's look really good. I'm a big Eastern Front PBEM'er. Kursk, Barbarossa, Smolensk, Korsun, etc etc.

I'm just very anxious for this to be released. I need a new experience. I've temporarily given up on a WEGO WWII game (Like Combined Arms) so my attention is on TOAW now.

hank

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 23