German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange

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German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/21/2006 11:02:47 PM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
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GERMAN LONG CAMPAIGN -- STARTING SEPTEMBER 1939

The following describes an extremely challenging way to play a German Long Campaign. It's the only way I play a long campaign these days. It is specifically designed to require dealing with dilemmas and difficult choices. This campaign format will work with either standard SPWAW 8.40 or enhanced SPWAW 8.403 v2.

SPECIAL NOTE: This campaign format is best suited for Category II players. Feedback suggests that Category I players will not find this campaign format very appealing.

General Conditions
Core -- German (you may only purchase/build/upgrade German units, no other nation's units in your core).
Core Units -- Your core must consist of at least 110 units (including the A0).
Battle Points -- Set to 2750 for German, leave at XXX for Poland. Set battle points to XXX for both sides after your core has been purchased.
Support -- Support Points (SPs) may be spent on German units and/or any historical Axis Ally that could have been historically present at the battle listed in the mission. Generally, Axis-Allied SPs should only be considered when a battle occurs in a relevant area of operations. Axis-Allied SPs should be limited to one Axis Ally per relevant battle (i.e., no mixing Italian/Romanian/Hungarian units in the same battle).
Reinforcements -- Reinforcement Points (RPs) are sometimes needed, but are highly penalized for victory-scoring purposes. Multiply all RPs spent (note the actual purchase cost) by three. For instance, if I need to buy a section of reinforcement SdKfz-7 prime movers, then that section will cost me 120 victory points (40 pts purchase cost times 3 = 120). Record all reinforcement purchases for later scoring purposes (I record these purchases on paper and then enter them into my scoring spreadsheet after the battle).
Core Artillery -- Your core is limited to a maximum of 12 core units capable of indirect fire (IF) and all IF core units restricted to 82mm or smaller.
Support Artillery -- On-map IF support artillery restricted to 82mm or smaller. Off-map IF support artillery no restrictions.
Troop Quality -- Turn Historical Ratings OFF for the first two battles (Sept and Oct 1939 vs. Poland). Set your troop quality (TQ) to whatever you want (I usually choose a TQ between 60-70, but have tried troop qualities from 50 to 110 at various times). Set the Polish troop quality to any value of your choice at least 55 (I rarely go above 60 because of the general difficulty of the battles themselves). I highly recommend a Polish TQ of 55 for the first two battles. After the first two battles, turn Historical Ratings ON for the rest of the campaign.

Player Preferences
All set to Default (XXX) or 100%, except as detailed above.

Realism Preferences
Historical Ratings = ON (except as noted above)
National Characteristics = ON
Command Control = your choice
Limited Intel = ON
Unit Comm = ON
Move & Fire = ON
Morale = ON
Mines = ON
Limited Ammo = ON (reduced ammo not recommended)
Reduced Squads = OFF
Vehicle Breakdowns = ON
Weapon Breakdowns = ON

General Preferences
Victory Frontage = ON
AI Advantage = ON
True Troop = ON (I recommend Rarity = OFF)
All others set to your choice.

Battle Conditions
Battle Difficulty = Hard (x2)
Airdrops -- Prohibited. You may buy/use airborne units only as regular ground forces.
Commando Operations -- Prohibited. You may buy/use commandos only as regular ground forces.
Mines/Barbed Wire/Dragon's Teeth -- Prohibited for you. The AI may deploy mines etc., but you may not. This means that even when you are fighting a defend battle, you must still rely on maneuver (and not mines, barbed wire, and dragon's teeth) to achieve victory.
Battle Missions -- From 1939 through 1942 you must fight one (and only one) battle of each of the 5 battle types (Assault, Advance, Meeting Engagement, Delay, Defend) before starting another 5-battle cycle. Note that this will require "re-loading" battles on occasion to get an eligible battle type in the cycle. [For instance, my first battle in a cycle is a delay. If the next battle in the cycle comes up as a delay, then I must re-load that battle until I get an eligible battle that is not a delay. Clearly, re-loads will be more frequent towards the end of a battle cycle when you've fought four battle types and must get the fifth to complete that battle cycle.] As soon as possible in 1943 (depending on the completion of the last 5-battle cycle from 1942), you will switch to a 4-battle cycle for the remainder of the campaign. This 4-battle cycle consists of: meeting engagement, meeting engagement, advance, assault (in any order). The reason for the switch is because as the true-troop value of your core increases, the AI finds it more and more difficult to spend enough points (due to the 20,000-pt limit) to fully perform advance and assault missions against you. Therefore, you are the one doing all the advancing/assaulting after 1942.
Battle Locations -- 1939 Eastern Europe (2 battles). 1940 Western Europe (2 battles). Early 1941 Western Europe (N. Africa, 2 battles). June 1941 through May 1944 Eastern Europe. June 1944 to End your choice. These locations are chosen on purpose to make your battles as difficult as possible. Towards the end, Soviet/Allied air and artillery become very deadly.
Battle Deployment Area -- At the start of every battle find the victory hex closest to your board-edge. You must deploy all of your forces closer to your board edge than that victory hex. This makes hard battles even harder. This is on purpose.
Rules of Engagement -- You may not move or shoot out of your battle deployment area (as described above) until either: A) at least half of the turns in the battle have passed; or, B) all of your victory hexes have been captured by the enemy. This means that even if you are shot at you cannot engage until either of the engagement conditions A or B above are met, so stay out of sight (but note that you are allowed to move and shoot within your battle deployment area; I often use smoke to hide my units). If you do decide to deploy units in hexes where they might be shot at, then you will have to set the ranges of your units so that they cannot take opportunity fire until engagement conditions A or B are met. This makes really hard battles almost impossible. You will have to maneuver under time pressure in every battle you fight. This is on purpose. Also note that engagement condition B is always satisfied when you have an advance or assault mission, so in that case you may deploy and engage as you would in a standard battle.
Post Battle Rules -- Before doing anything else, you must do a "Fix All" at the end of every battle. This is on purpose and directly affects your Total Campaign Score.

Total Campaign (TC) Scoring
Campaign Length (CL) -- Keep track of the number of battles you have fought.
Base Campaign (BC) Score -- This is the standard score of a campaign (1 point for a marginal victory, 3 points for a decisive victory, etc.).
Build Points (BPs) -- This is the running total of build points you have remaining between battles (after Fix All and any unit upgrade/changes have been performed). Note that you will not get a build screen following the last battle in the campaign, so you must record a running total of your remaining BPs in case the campaign ends (I use a spreadsheet).
Total Campaign Score = BC x (BPs - RPs) / CL
Where BC is the base campaign score, BPs is the most recent number of remaining build points, RPs is the total sum of penalized reinforcement points over the course of the campaign, and CL is the number of battles you fought in the campaign. For example, let's say I complete a campaign in 43 battles (CL), had 200,000 BPs remaining prior to the last battle, spent 3000 penalized RPs, and a base campaign score of 90. Therefore, my TC = 90 x (200,000 - 3,000) / 43, which yields 412,325.6

Final Comments
Remaining build points is the key to achieving a high Total Campaign Score in this format. Players will constantly be under pressure to conserve BPs, even if it means fighting battles using older equipment. The combination of difficult deployment and rules of engagement, plus the penalties for reinforcements, plus the mandatory "Fix All" after each battle, means that conserving BPs will be very difficult.
Now, you will really have to think about whether to upgrade to those new Pz IVs in 1942 or stay in your Pz IIIs. And having your expensive Tigers get blown up by bombs or rockets in 1945 might not be such a good idea when staying in StuG IIIs might not cost so much when they get destroyed. Decisions, decisions, decisions.
I've spent a great deal of time and effort deliberating over every aspect of this campaign format. Every part of it has its reason and its place (the whole is totally dependent on the sum of its parts and needs all of them to work the way it should). If you are interested in trying this kind of campaign, I urge you not to make any changes until you have played a campaign or two. I think you will find this campaign concept (I've refined it over the course of several years and dozens of campaigns, with extensive playtesting) to provide one of the greatest challenges I can think of when playing a Long Campaign.
Happy gaming.

Postscript -- For the masochists among you. After each battle add 2 or 3 more to the AI Level in the General Preferences. This will have the effect of letting the AI keep pace with the ever-increasing experience levels of your core troops.

< Message edited by vahauser -- 9/15/2006 11:03:24 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/22/2006 6:46:09 AM

KG Erwin

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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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That's a great setup, man, and it can offer many challenges. The only caveat is that you'll still lose the war, but in SPWaW, "the battle is the thing".

(in reply to vahauser)

Post #: 2

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/22/2006 12:18:13 PM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
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Erwin,

Yes, the challenges come in many ways not truly appreciated until you actually try and play one of these beasts. I�ve been playing like this for so long now that I�m used to it. But some of my friends who have tried it for the first time are blown away (literally and figuratively). There is a pretty steep learning curve and players new to this type of campaign must unlearn many things and start fresh.

For instance, I�m playing a campaign battle right now that has a special case that I forgot to mention in my discussion to start this thread. I�m fighting a delay battle where the three victory clusters in the �forward zone� are 15-VPs per turn. Since the AI does not recognize such hexes, then the AI might never capture them unless they accidentally move right over them. In this special case, I permit myself to release my combat force in a modified version of case B of my rules of engagement, where only the non-15-VP-per-turn hexes must be captured by the enemy to release my force. This only applies in the uncommon situation of 15-VP-per-hex battles. In 20-VP-per-hex (or more) battles, since the AI does recognize such hexes for victory purposes, then play can proceed as normal. Clearly, playing a battle where you have 30-VP-per-turn hexes in the snow where it takes the AI 16 turns out of a 32-turn battle to finally reach the �rear-area� victory cluster(s) to release your force means that the AI will be racking up a huge score against you and you really have to push hard to squeeze out even a marginal victory. That is part of the challenge.

I find that in this kind of campaign the advance mission is actually the easiest because you can choose the point of attack and have the entire battle to achieve your victory. Assaults and delays are next easiest (usually). Defends are now fairly difficult since the AI will have a substantial force advantage and you can�t afford to sit in your entrenchments. Meeting engagements are usually the hardest missions because you have limited support points, and the AI usually sets up farther away from your �rear area� victory cluster which means a longer time until the AI captures it and releases your force. A meeting engagement in the winter in Russia in bad terrain and high visibility in 1944 (in the face of Soviet air power) is almost impossible to win anything better than a marginal victory and often results in a draw (ugh).

I�ve been playing this long enough where anything less than a marginal victory is considered a disaster for me. But I�ve watched my friends get slaughtered in these kinds of games.

The core size of 110 units was finally arrived at by many months of trial and error. 110 units and 2750 initial core points means that you will start the game with a number of weak units that need to be upgraded. The pressure to spend crucial build points thus begins right away. And it never lets up. One bad battle where you lose a number of your units means that just performing the mandatory �Fix All� sucks up many/most of your early build points. Ouch. And 110 units in the core means that there will almost always be units in need of upgrade. You really have to think long-term in this kind of environment.

Involving build points in the campaign scoring changes everything!

If you do decide to try one of these campaigns, then I also recommend not boosting the AI Level by more than 2 points per battle. In a 45-game campaign this means that the final AI Level in 1945 will be 88 (since the first battle will be at AI Level XXX). That is pretty stiff competition. I�ve played boosting the AI Level by 3 points per battle and the battles in 1944 and 1945 become very difficult to achieve anything better than marginal victories.

ACK! I just now remembered a MAJOR OMISSION regarding mines/barbed wire/dragon�s teeth. I�ve now edited it into the post starting this thread. I�ve been playing this way for so long that I�d forgotten about it. Sorry about that.

Anyway, I�d love to hear about your campaign if you try one of these things. I�ll be happy to answer any questions you might have.

(in reply to vahauser)

Post #: 3

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/22/2006 6:29:17 PM

fmonster

Posts: 217
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From: Cartersville, Ga. USA
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Hi vahauser! Sounds like fun. I have been meaning to get back into this game for a while now, so I might as well start with something that is going to kick my butt!

Anyway, I have been gone from Steel Panthers for quite a while, but am looking to start back up again with something new instead of hopping back into the old way of playing. That's why I am going to give this a whirl!

Since I haven't played a campaign in a while, I have stumbled across a few questions during setup.
1) Is there a place to set my initial points for core troups or do I just limit myself to the 2750 point limit?
2) When do you set the start date? 1939,..... but what month or does it matter?
3) In your Battle Conditions section, you talk about Battle Missions and the 5 battle cycle. That is easy enough to understand. 5 battle types in each year up to the end of '42. That said, in your Battle Locations section you state that I need to have 2 battles in Eastern Europe in 1939, 2 battles in Western Europe in 1940, etc.. Does this mean that of the 5 types of battle in '39, for instance, that 2 of those 5 battles must be in Eastern Europe? or am I missing the point?
4) As for battle deployment, I am just asking for clarity sake, if a victory hex is closest to my deployment area in the upper right hand region, then I need to deploy all of my troups in the lower right hand region of my deployment area. Correct?

Thanks for posting this challenge. I know I will end up having more questions and will have some horror stories during the initial attempts at this, but I do so love a challenge! Thanks again!

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(in reply to vahauser)

Post #: 4

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/22/2006 6:48:19 PM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
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fmonster,

Welcome back to SPWAW. If you've ever seen the movie Star Trek: Wrath of Khan, then you are aware of the Kobyashi Maru scenario and what that scenario was supposed to test. That's what this campaign is: a bunch of Kobyashi Maru battles. Good luck!

With that in mind, here are the answers to your questions.

1) Setting your battle points at 2750 prior to starting the campaign sets your core to 2750.

2) When you choose which nation (you will choose the Germans) you must also choose both the year and the month. Remember that you are selecting and playing the WWII Campaign and not the Campaign Generator.

3) By your question it appears that you are using the Campaign Generator. Choose the WWII Campaign directly beneath the Campaign Generator. When playing the WWII Campaign, you are asked to select the theater prior to each battle. Also, when playing a WWII Campaign the number of battles is variable so you don't know how many battles per year there will be (except for 1939 and 1940 which always have 2 battles per year). Thus, battle cycles (5- or 4-battle variety) may start in one year and carry over into other. Indeed, the first 5-battle cycle will start in 1939 and end in 1941.

4) No. Draw a straight line from the top of the map to the bottom making sure that line is closer to your board-edge than the victory hex in question. You may deploy anywhere behind that line.

Well, this kind of campaign is definitely not for the faint of heart. But I think the scoring system incorporating build points adds such a fun dimension that it makes all the pain and suffering worth it.

--Victor

< Message edited by vahauser -- 7/22/2006 6:58:53 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/22/2006 10:00:34 PM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline

fmonster,

Here is a sample 2750-pt Kampfgruppe.

I set the German TQ to 75. [I believe that every army has a few formations of better-quality troops even in peacetime. And I also like to imagine my Kampfgruppe (I call it KG Hauser) is the vanguard of the Wehrmacht, expected to go where the fighting is, so I have no problem starting out with TQ 75 troops.]

I set the Polish TQ to 55 (even at TQ 55, the Poles are quite capable of overrunning you).

All other conditions as described in the first post in this thread.

I am currently messing around with enhanced SPWAW 8.403 v2, so the following is not a perfect fit with standard SPWAW 8.40. But it is close enough to give you an idea of a sample KG.

One company of Support Pz IVs
One Motorized PzG Company
One Motorcycle Company
Two Batteries of 81mm Mortars + FO
One section of Ammo Carriers
Misc. scouts/snipers/transport/etc. to fill out the 2750 points and bring the total unit count to 110.

As you can see, this is not a heavy combat force and will need to be seriously upgraded over the course of the campaign if it is going to have a chance of surviving the battles later in the campaign. If you can survive the first two battles against the Poles without getting wiped out, then you should be able to at least upgrade to a few 88s to give you some chance against the French/British in 1940 and N. Africa. Fighting the Soviets, though, will be suicide with the KG described above unless you can doing some serious upgrading. That is part of the challenge with this kind of campaign.

Note that the above KG is just a sample. I personally would have serious misgivings about taking it into battle. Also, your playing style and the kinds/quality of troops you like to command will be a better guide to how you should compose your beginning KG.

--V

(in reply to vahauser)

Post #: 6

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/22/2006 10:05:31 PM

fmonster

Posts: 217
Joined: 6/16/2003
From: Cartersville, Ga. USA
Status: offline

Thanks for the speedy response!

Ok, I think I have got a good idea what is going on. You did a great job answering my
questions and I've started setting things up. Boy, 2750 points and 110
required core units is a toughy! I spent an hour getting the correct combo! Got my support units and then,...... dang! time for work! So, tonight I will position my units for the first battle vs the Poland and see what kind of mess I can get myself into.

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RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/23/2006 9:35:58 PM

vahauser

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From: Texas
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fmonster,

I'd love to read your After Action Reports.

What kind of core did you build?

--V

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Post #: 8

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/24/2006 2:29:01 AM

fmonster

Posts: 217
Joined: 6/16/2003
From: Cartersville, Ga. USA
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V-

The core group that I settled on covered the basics, but is a mix that I like to play with.

Basically:

5 Platoons of PzKpfw-Ib
2 Rifle Companies
1 Engineer Company
The rest was Recon/Snipers/Vehicles - Nothing fancy.

First battle is lining up to be a defend,..... vs Poland?

The initial map is only 40 hexes tall, so not much room for all my units so this could be a brutal first round.

Here's to the challenge!

_____________________________

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Post #: 9

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/24/2006 5:33:44 AM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
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From: Texas
Status: offline

fmonster,

What troop quality did you select for your Kampfgruppe?

Are you playing SPWAW 8.40?

Two suggestions:
A)� You will not be able to beat the Poles in a stand-up toe-to-toe fight.� You will have to outmaneuver them.
B)� You are allowed to have up to 12 IF artillery up to 82mm in your core.� I urge you to do this as soon as possible.� They won't kill much, but they are very good at suppressing a sector and pinning the enemy in place in that sector.� Hammer and anvil, with the mortars (well, I use mortars)�as the anvil.

Good hunting,
Victor

P.S. A defend as your first mission is not bad luck, it means that you won't have to defend against the British in N. Africa in your fifth battle, and that is a good thing.

< Message edited by vahauser -- 7/24/2006 5:39:44 AM >

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Post #: 10

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/24/2006 5:54:50 AM

fmonster

Posts: 217
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From: Cartersville, Ga. USA
Status: offline

V-

I set my troup quality to the suggested 75. Also, I am playing with V8.40.

As for the Poles and Arty, I have used my support points for that in the first mission along with a platoon of heavies. Should be interesting.

Gary

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RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/24/2006 10:17:18 AM

vahauser

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Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
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You are one brave SPWAW warrior!

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Post #: 12

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/24/2006 1:39:24 PM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline

fmonster,

I started a new campaign when I read that you were going to give it a shot.

My core consisted (at the start) of a couple platoons of PzIVs, a couple platoons of PzIs, twelve 81mm mortars, an FO, four platoons of infantry, and a variety of misc. ATRs, snipers, transports, etc. I'm playing enhanced SPWAW v2, so the unit prices are a little different, but the same concepts still apply. Outmaneuver the AI and win.

Sept 1939 - delay vs. Poland. A lucky draw for the first battle. I bought some more mortars and some ammo carriers and some scouts and armored cars with support points. I used all my mortars to pin and hold the Polish center advance (they captured my last victory flag around turn 9 in a 32-turn game leaving me plenty of time to maneuver). I was under time pressure because my forward victory hexes were 15-per-turn and I needed to fight my way through a town to get to them. I finally recaptured all of the 15-per-turn hexes around turn 19 leaving my panzers behind and on the north flank of the advancing Poles. They wheeled south and rolled up the flank of the Poles. The game ended when I recaptured my last victory hex around turn 30. Decisive Victory. Be careful not to capture the last victory hex too soon or the Broken enemy will surrender and the game will end. Sometimes that is a good thing, but usually I like to get my core as many kills as possible so I usually like the games to end on the very last turn.
Following the Fix All, I had about 400 build points, I bought a section of ammo carriers and saved the remaining build points for future battles. Note that the more build points you spend, the larger the value of your core, which in turn means the larger your enemy will be in the next battle. Keep that in mind.

Oct 1939 - meeting engagement vs. Poland. Not a good draw for a second battle. Plus it was in the snow with high visibility which meant that the Poles were starting way over there far from my rear victory hexes. They captured my last victory hex on turn 13 in a 33-turn game. Much harder time this battle. I lost some tanks (I don't usually suffer many losses, so losing tanks is a real slap in the face to me). One of them broke down in the middle of the advance and I couldn't save it. Artillery killed another, etc. You get the idea. Anyway, at the end of the game I had only killed about half the Poles and I didn't capture the rear Polish victory hexes. Good news is that the center victory hexes were 250 points each, so I managed another decisive victory (barely). After Fix All I had about 700 build points. I spent almost all of them to buy three sections of self-propelled 88s (new units in enhanced SPWAW) to get ready for France 1940. After this battle I turned Historical Ratings ON (and remains on for the rest of the campaign).

May 1940 - river defense vs. France. I am still fighting this battle. The terrain is heavily forested in a 37-turn game. The forest badly degrades my kampfgruppe because I cannot engage at long range (my brand-new 88s that I spent all those build points on are not very useful, sigh). The river defense is difficult because by the time the French captured my rear flags it was already turn 18 and I have to cross the river if I want to re-capture all my flags (I might choose not to). Playing a defend without any mines/barbed wire/dragon's teeth allowed can be quite eye-opening (as you might be discovering in your current battle). Here are some tricks that might help you. Trick #1) Buy a single fort and face it to the rear (for maximum armor and doesn't allow the AI to get front shots on it). Place it right next to your rear-most victory hex toward your board edge (i.e., as far forward as the deployment rules allow). The enemy WILL target that fort! I like to get the AI to waste artillery on that fort. If necessary, have the fort Z-fire to draw attention to it. Trick #2) Always accompany your maneuver force with a handful of support 81mm mortars and/or 75mm howitzers (I prefer the mortars because they are easier to transport, but they do have fewer smoke rounds which is a problem because...). Here is the trick. The game does not allow you to unload artillery in the same turn and fire HE or AP, but it DOES allow you to fire smoke even if you move and unload. This is how I can maneuver in the face of hundreds of enemy units with only 20 AFVs and be victorious with minimal casualties (usually). This can mean (and often is) the difference between defeat and victory in this kind of campaign.

Anyway, time to sign off for now and get back to playing my battle in France.

< Message edited by vahauser -- 8/31/2006 4:40:19 PM >

(in reply to vahauser)

Post #: 13

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/25/2006 12:29:17 AM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
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fmonster,

Well I finished the May 1940 river defense. Marginal victory. Over 75% of my support forces were eliminated in the fighting to break out of the forest. I also had two core PzIVs and one of my new SP 88s knocked out. The good news was that none of them were destroyed (very lucky), they were all abandoned and I was able to save the crews. Another disaster was that I was running low on transport, so I requested a section of halftracks as reinforcements. Bad idea. They cost me 42 points (which means I lose 126 points at the end of the campaign), and as soon as they showed up one of them immediately broke down. A total waste. Anyway, by the time I finally broke free of the forest, it was turn 33. And as I approached the river, I discovered that the AI had about half of his assault force (including most of the armor) on the other side milling around trying to figure out how to cross the three bridges over the river. No way was I going to be able to fight my way across the river against that force and recapture the flags over there. I was able to get a few long range kills with my new 88s before the game ended, but not enough to make a difference.
Following the battle, and after the Fix All, I had around 560 build points.
I upgraded two more units into ammo carriers to give me a little more tactical flexibility and I upgraded into several SP 150s for heavy close support. After these upgrades I had around 400 build points left to carry forward. I plan to save my build points the next two battles because I want to get some flak 88s and I want some flammpanzers. Those are expensive units so I'll need plenty of build points. I'm beginning to think that buying those expensive SP 88s might not have been such a great idea... Time will tell. Anyway, on to the next battle.

June 1940 - Night assault vs. French. Man this looks easy. I've done a hundred assaults under tougher conditions with success. Visibility 10 hexes (easy to hide my advancing engineers), 33 turns, with very favorable terrain. Two victory clusters near the bottom of the map with a protected road leading right to them. I'll punch through the mines with my whole kampfgruppe on a narrow frontage there, drive into the rear and then drive up the French line from behind them. Using support points, I bought two companies of engineers and four batteries of mortars for suppression/smoke purposes. The remaining support points went into transport and a few StuGs to lead the assault. Enhanced SPWAW requires platoon HQs for the engineers (but they have no engineering ability), so the only use I can think of for them is to have the platoon HQs take point and find the mines. Anyway, this looks by far to be the easiest of the four battles I've had to date. I'll find out soon enough.

(in reply to vahauser)

Post #: 14

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/25/2006 12:49:56 AM

fmonster

Posts: 217
Joined: 6/16/2003
From: Cartersville, Ga. USA
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V-

I am halfway through the initial battle. I have lost one PzI when it became a sitting duck due to breakdown. Other than that, I have lost one sniper and a scout team plus a scout vehicle taken out be a lucky barrage! All-in-all, I am having a blast! Very tense! I have a few things to do this evening so I don't know if I'll get this game finished today, but can't wait to get back to it!

Gary

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Post #: 15

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/28/2006 1:56:00 AM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
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Gary,

I finally finished my June 1940 assault vs. France (got sidetracked for a few days). Well, I did win a Decisive victory, but it was not as simple as I anticipated. Enhanced v2 had some surprises for me.

First was the multiple batteries of French 7.8" heavy howitzers that pounded me. Second was the high quality of the French defenders. Turns out that enhanced v2 rates the French in 1940 as nearly equal to the Germans. The results of these two surprises meant a more difficult battle where I lost a whole lot of infantry (the two companies of support engineers suffered very heavy casualties leading the advance). I was able to employ a trick to guarantee victory, though.

Victory Trick. When playing a battle where the victory hexes are not points-per-turn (like in this battle), then it is not always a good idea to capture them immediately. I clear a defense perimeter around each victory cluster without actually capturing any of the victory hexes. Then I position a guarding force (ready to pounce on the victory hexes and defend them) around that cluster and move on the next cluster. The AI will not usually release its forces until 20 out of 21 victory hexes have been captured. Thus, I was able to secure all the victory clusters (by around turn 28 of a 33-turn game), and then on turn 32 I pounced on the victory hexes themselves, leaving the French only one turn to counterattack with its full force. Thus, I was able to achieve victory at a heavy cost to my supporting infantry, but my core was left relatively intact. The downside of adopting this method of victory is that the fighting is generally not very heavy (except for one or two turns) because my battlegroup is sneaking around behind smokescreens from victory cluster to victory cluster, which means that my core did not get many kills.

Anyway, after the battle and the Fix All, I had around 940 build points which I am saving.

April 1941, N. Africa, advance vs. British (last battle of this 5-battle cycle). This is the very best mission type to fight the British with. The AI typically buys hundreds of AFVs for the British and they are easiest to deal with when they aren't moving (which in the desert creates a lot of dust/smoke). The visibility is 37 hexes and the game length is 30 turns over a wide open map that has only a few hills. Perfect for my 88s. The biggest problem I face is the 15-point-per-turn victory hexes, which means I'll have to move faster than I prefer. Time pressure. But that is part of the fun and the challenge. Ordinarily I would say this would be another fairly easy battle. But after the surprises the French gave me last battle, I'm going into this one expecting something nasty.

Once more into the breach, dear friends...

(in reply to fmonster)

Post #: 16

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/28/2006 2:18:42 AM

fmonster

Posts: 217
Joined: 6/16/2003
From: Cartersville, Ga. USA
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Still chugging away in the initial battle vs Poland. Remember that I am coming back to this game after years of being away, so the going is a little slow. That said, it is coming back to me quicker than expected.

The PzI's have been great against all the infantry the Pole's through at us, but it has been slower going lately due to the 37mm the bad guys are throwing at me. The next few turns will determine wether I am going to win or lose this battle.

I am having so much fun with this that even if I get toasted this first attempt at this style of play, that I will give it many more attempts. I feel this is a fantastic challenge with well thought out house rules.

Btw, do you have an example of the spreadsheet you use for scoring? Also, thanks for all the tips!!!

Gary

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Post #: 17

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/28/2006 1:19:27 PM

Red Devil

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/4/2002
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Hi Folks,

I've been hooked by the idea of this challenge and want to try my hand against the AI again. I'm using v8.4 without EV. Using troop quality of 75 I dont seem to be able to replicate your core force with only 2750 pts.

Any chance of posting you actual core force showing equipment type chosen, rather than just "one support Pz. Co".

Regards
Red Devil

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Post #: 18

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/28/2006 7:16:19 PM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
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Red Devil,

You aren't limited to any troop quality.� Since I'm playing enhanced v2, the OOBs are significantly different from standard 8.4.� I've tried TQs for my core anywhere from 50 to 110.�

One the challenges is to build a core of 110 units that is actually�capable of fighting using only 2750 points.� I've seen cores that consisted of 110 Pz-Ib (actually, 109 plus the A0).� I've seen all kinds of different cores.� I conceive of my starting core as a special army-group level�kampfgruppe, drawing on assets from all over to create a "vanguard" formation that is sent to the most important and desperate sectors.� As such, my concept of my core is not based on any historical formations, but rather on a combined-arms force capable of taking on any opponent anytime, anywhere.� It helps if you have a concept of your own core in mind when you begin.� By fiddling with your TQ (which changes the costs of your units), you can put together just about any kind of core you can imagine.� At lower TQs you can usually buy heavier units, higher TQs usually mean lighter units.

Based on several years' experience with this kind of campaign, I suggest:
12 artillery units (81mm mortar and/or 75mm howitzer) + FO
Some "battle tanks" (one of my friends likes to start with Pz-38t and I prefer the Pz IVc)
Some "battle infantry" (infantry that can stand in the line and shoot it out)
Some support AFV (armored cars, light tanks, halftracks, etc.)
Some support infantry (cavalry, motorcycle, ATRs, etc.)
Misc. support (recon, snipers, transport units, ammo carriers/dumps, etc.)

Envision what you want your "Final Kampfgruppe" to look like.� For example (and this is JUST an example, don't try this at home):
12 81mm/75mm arty + FO
18 battle tanks
36 battle infantry
12 heavy AA
12 light AA
12 inf-support AFV
7 specialist units (A0, ammo, transport, etc.)
total 110 units

Take your final vision, and compare it to your starting core.� Then develop a plan to get you to your final core from your starting core using the minimum number of build points, all the while keeping your current core powerful enough to still win battles under difficult circumstances.� It is not easy.

I hope this helps.

--Victor

< Message edited by vahauser -- 7/28/2006 7:26:52 PM >

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Post #: 19

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/31/2006 10:24:34 AM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
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From: Texas
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Gary,

Still playing? I have a scoring spreadsheet I can send you if you still want it.

I finished my fifth battle, Apr 1941, advance vs. British. Marginal Victory. I was right. Nasty surprises. The British armor went mobile almost immediately, which slowed the advance of my kampfgruppe to a crawl. I ran out of smoke with my forward units several times, which halted my advance until I could bring some unused mortars forward. Net result was significant losses to my core and an advance that was too slow to capture the 15-per-turn victory hexes soon enough to achieve a decisive victory. Also, British artillery was more active than the French and the Poles. I was hit by artillery several times in situations that surprised me. Nasty. Anyway, after the Fix All, I had a little more than 1300 build points. Saved them all. Its now May 1941 and I'm still fighting with Pz IVCs and Pz IBs. My equipment is becoming more and more inadequate. I have to upgrade soon.

Upon completion of this first 5-battle cycle, I ended up with 3 decisive and 2 marginal victories which is pretty normal for me. However, given the fact that I had some pretty good draws for battles (although 2 of the 5 battles had 15-per-turn victory hexes which is a bit odd), I'm not looking forward to a battle-cycle where I get not-so-good draws.

If you are using increased AI Levels in your campaign, here is a easy way to handle it--upon completion of a battle cycle, increase the AI Level by 10 (which works out to 2 per battle for 5-battle cycles and 2.5 per battle for 4-battle cycles). First battle cycle AI Level = 0; second battle cycle AI Level = 10, third battle cycle AI Level = 20, etc. I've adjusted my AI Level, and now starting my second battle cycle my AI Level has been set to 10.

On to the first battle of my second battle cycle.
May 1941 Delay vs. British. 37 turn battle with 25 visibility. 15-per-turn victory hexes again in the forward victory clusters (that's 3 out of 6 battles now--getting weird). The terrain is hilly and rocky, but I have a few good sighting positions to create some kill zones. Hope it will be sufficient for the task at hand. Let the game begin...

< Message edited by vahauser -- 7/31/2006 10:28:25 AM >

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Post #: 20

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/31/2006 3:11:10 PM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
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From: Combat Information Center
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quote:

May 1941 Delay vs. British. 37 turn battle with 25 visibility. 15-per-turn victory hexes again in the forward victory clusters (that's 3 out of 6 battles now--getting weird).

Doesn't sound weird to me...Delay missions require you to "delay" the enemy advance for as long as possible; the "per turn" VH flags force you to decide, "How long can I hold those objectives before I have to withdraw?"

As has been discovered in the Depot Academy Combat League, conducting a realistic "Delay" mission is one of the more difficult battles to manage in the game. Players tend to try and "defend" those hexes to the bitter end, resulting in high losses. The main point of a "delaying mission" is for a small force to "block" the advance of a larger enemy force while other friendly elements withdraw to the next MLR. They must prevent the enemy from breaking through or flanking the defense line, withdrawing just fast enough to remain relatively un-engaged.

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Post #: 21

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 7/31/2006 8:36:15 PM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
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FlashFyre,

My comment was more regarding the fact that three out of the six games I've played in this campaign so far, the forward/middle victory hexes have been 15-per-turn.

Even if half the games a person plays the forward/middle victory hexes are supposed to be of the "per turn" variety (i.e., for all I know, there is a 50-50 chance when a game is generated that the forward/middle victory hexes will be per-turn rather than end-of-game, although I don't know this for a fact), three of the 15-per-turn variety is odd (to me). I've seen per-turn hexes in every denomination from 15 to 35 per turn (i.e., 15, 20, 25, 30, and 35). So, if I've had 6 games generated, and three of them have per-turn hexes, it is weird to me that all three of those games have been of the 15-per-turn variety.

Actually, in the kind of campaign that I'm playing here, the 15-per-turn variety is the most favorable to have. So, I guess that makes it weird in a lucky kind of way.

--V

< Message edited by vahauser -- 7/31/2006 8:41:38 PM >

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Post #: 22

RE: German Long Campaign -- Extreme Challange - 8/1/2006 1:52:25 AM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
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From: Combat Information Center
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Ahh, I see...I thought you were commenting on the type of VH flag, not the value assigned to them. My bad.

Yeah, I can see where having three in a row the same value is odd...my experience has been that forces under 3000 pts in campains get the low value flags anymore. I usually play with cores of 2000-3000, and usually get the 15 point hexes. It could be another of the "tweaks" Mike made for the 8.4/8.403 mech.exe revisions.

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