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PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/5/2006 2:32:09 PM

puresimmer

Posts: 2299
Joined: 7/24/2005
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OK, 1.36 is a BETA release, so all disclaimers apply... More fixes here and one pretty nice new feature!

http://www.puresim.com/PureSim2007-SetupRelease-v136_RCPatch.exe

What's New
========

- New: Player career arcs (aging, improvement, decline) now happen gradually over the year instead of just in the off season. In other words, you'll see subtle ratings changes multiple times over the season for players. So, you'll probably want to watch players more closely during the year since their skills are changing more dynamically, as opposed to previous versions of PureSim where you would pretty much look at ratings after the off season.

- Tweak: Added some more logging to FTP code to help commmishes with diagnosing upload/download issues for players in the league

- New: Added new option to dump all players to the draft pool when doing a "Real Major League" association.

- Tweak: If a player submits roster moves while the commish is logged into PureSim, but BEFORE he has simmed a game since the last upload cycle, PureSim will now apply those roster moves right before teh first game in the current cycle is simmed. (Admittedly this is a fringe case!)

- Fix: HTML Alamanac was not showing splits when generated during the first season of an association if the user attempted to build it before the season was over.

- Tweak: No longer prompting the human manager for a tagup decision if a runner is on first and a fly ball is hit.

- Fix: In a situation where the game is tied and home team can win in the bottom of the 9th (or later) if a runner was on third (not forced) with 1 out, and a ground ball was hit, the defense sometimes would throw to first, allowing the runner at third to score the game winning run. The defense will now come home in this situation.

- Tweak: Added some new background images (Lineup, Modify Roster, Defensive scouting report) Thanks to PanzersEast!

- Fix: Rare lockup that could occur in the postseason if the next scheduled starter was too fatigued to start and the best candidate to start in his place is too injured to play.

_____________________________

Developer, PureSim Baseball

Post #: 1

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/5/2006 4:40:54 PM

Sonny

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
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All sounds great to me!

_____________________________

Quote from Snigbert -

"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."

"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "

(in reply to puresimmer)

Post #: 2

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/5/2006 5:04:52 PM

RedSox67

Posts: 22
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline

Excellent! I've really been looking forward to the draft option. Thanks!

(in reply to Sonny)

Post #: 3

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/5/2006 5:29:34 PM

Nukester

Posts: 472
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Newburgh, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: puresimmer

- New: Added new option to dump all players to the draft pool when doing a "Real Major League" association.

(I did say I would kiss you if it made it into this version

)

Oh, and......

(I love this smiley)

Thank you and great job !

(in reply to puresimmer)

Post #: 4

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/5/2006 9:15:43 PM

SirWolf1960

Posts: 124
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline

I love the idea of the new aging model. This should make the game even more fun.

Steve

(in reply to Nukester)

Post #: 5

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/6/2006 12:36:17 AM

33sherman

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

First impressions of the new patch, the in-seasons ratings feature in particular:

A HUGE change to way the game is played. I think the AI will be helped in that it will be forced to demote high rated but young players instead of starting them right off the bat, especially using 'early import' of Lahman careers.

I also like that it rewards more mature teams, teams with players that are in their prime and not as volatile.

Possible problems:

I simmed one season, and offense spiked significantly. A lot of teams had trouble filling out pitching staffs with players who had ERAs less than 6 or 7. YOunger players who normally woulf have started all year with high ratings saw their 'stuff' ratings drop into the 70s. Though, it was drastic, however, it wasn't THAT drastic (in fact it may be an improvement on the way the career was progressing before--too many good pitchers, no real 'scrubs' on pitching staffs). Still, something to think about. I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks. I will continue playing this career.

< Message edited by 33sherman -- 9/6/2006 12:37:14 AM >

(in reply to SirWolf1960)

Post #: 6

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/6/2006 3:56:02 AM

VanScoy

Posts: 87
Joined: 12/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

New: Player career arcs (aging, improvement, decline) now happen gradually over the year instead of just in the off season. In other words, you'll see subtle ratings changes multiple times over the season for players. So, you'll probably want to watch players more closely during the year since their skills are changing more dynamically, as opposed to previous versions of PureSim where you would pretty much look at ratings after the off season.

This is the only thing that I think OOTP had on you. GREAT JOB!!!!1

(in reply to puresimmer)

Post #: 7

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/6/2006 6:23:34 AM

dneely

Posts: 227
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline

Amazing job Shaun!!!!!!!!!

_____________________________

DNeely

PureSim Vet

(in reply to VanScoy)

Post #: 8

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/6/2006 10:15:46 AM

33sherman

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

After simming into another season, I'm convinced that the rate that pitcher's stuff ratings decrease needs to be tweaked down a little. Batting averages have gone way up, and if you don't have a team stacked with pitching, you end up with half of the pitching staff with ERAs from 7.00-10.00-plus.

(in reply to dneely)

Post #: 9

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/6/2006 12:28:22 PM

puresimmer

Posts: 2299
Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 33sherman

After simming into another season, I'm convinced that the rate that pitcher's stuff ratings decrease needs to be tweaked down a little. Batting averages have gone way up, and if you don't have a team stacked with pitching, you end up with half of the pitching staff with ERAs from 7.00-10.00-plus.

Thanks for digging into this. Are you playing with real players or fictional?

_____________________________

Developer, PureSim Baseball

(in reply to 33sherman)

Post #: 10

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/6/2006 7:27:21 PM

33sherman

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: puresimmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: 33sherman

After simming into another season, I'm convinced that the rate that pitcher's stuff ratings decrease needs to be tweaked down a little. Batting averages have gone way up, and if you don't have a team stacked with pitching, you end up with half of the pitching staff with ERAs from 7.00-10.00-plus.

Thanks for digging into this. Are you playing with real players or fictional?

Real players, 1949. I actually love the new feature, because it makes bullpen manangement a lot more realistic. If you don't have great pitching, it can be a struggle to fill out those last couple spots, and it's not unusual to have a few pitchers with terrible ERAs. It just seems like players who are a little older or younger are seeing ratings drop a bit too much.

It's weird, because before the patch hitting seemed a litle low, using the default XML (batting avg record was .398 all time), and I think the new feature improves this, but perhaps a little too much. Some older and younger guys can barely get out of an inning, outing after outing.

(in reply to puresimmer)

Post #: 11

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/6/2006 7:53:18 PM

Woodruff

Posts: 176
Joined: 7/2/2006
Status: offline

Shaun, I'm using fictional players and seeing similar stuff.

Frankly, the STUFF rating has been trashed in my league after three seasons...even the young players who should be improving are having this rating crash immensely.

And yes...offense is through the roof. My #3 pitcher has an 8.35 ERA...third best on my team.

(in reply to 33sherman)

Post #: 12

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/6/2006 10:14:20 PM

PadresFan104

Posts: 1223
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: puresimmer
- New: Player career arcs (aging, improvement, decline) now happen gradually over the year instead of just in the off season. In other words, you'll see subtle ratings changes multiple times over the season for players. So, you'll probably want to watch players more closely during the year since their skills are changing more dynamically, as opposed to previous versions of PureSim where you would pretty much look at ratings after the off season.

I haven't loaded the latest patch yet, but I still wanted to discuss this change since I'm not convinced that I like the described implementation.

In real life, if you want to scout a players attributes, about the only way to do it is to watch the player play, analyze his stats and make predictions based on any number of factors. We already have the tools to do this in the game throughout the season, and it's Spring Training that allows our scouts to change the players ratings for the upcoming season.

Are we going to see the actual ratings change for players during the season, or is this strictly in the hidden ratings? If it's hidden, then great. If we're being shown the ratings changes, then not-so-great. What's the point of keeping any eye on your players performance if we will have the ratings changing in front of our eyes?

The worst scenario I can think of is that bench player who doesn't throw very many innings or get very many at bats. How would a real manager or scout be able to say that their attributes got better or worse if their not getting a chance to play and show what they do or don't have?

At the very least, visible ratings changes should be tied to playing time to make it more realistic.

(in reply to puresimmer)

Post #: 13

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/6/2006 10:28:34 PM

33sherman

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PadresFan104

At the very least, visible ratings changes should be tied to playing time to make it more realistic.

I'm almost postive that the ratings change is indeed tied to playing time.

(in reply to PadresFan104)

Post #: 14

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/6/2006 10:30:47 PM

Woodruff

Posts: 176
Joined: 7/2/2006
Status: offline

I very much agree with PadresFan on this one.

With ratings changing during the season, this is going to affect the player's stats during the season. This seems counter-intuitive as a change, from my perspective.

I've always preferred the stat-driven standpoint of playing the game myself (I only look at the ratings during the offseason as it is, and then I only use it as a cursory check against the actual stats), but this means a player will actually improve or get worse physically, rather than just the ebb and flow of the season (that streaks give you, for instance).

I don't know...

(in reply to PadresFan104)

Post #: 15

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/6/2006 10:39:56 PM

PadresFan104

Posts: 1223
Joined: 8/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 33sherman

quote:

ORIGINAL: PadresFan104

At the very least, visible ratings changes should be tied to playing time to make it more realistic.

I'm almost postive that the ratings change is indeed tied to playing time.

That's good news. So in your test seasons, have you seen the biggest changes amongst the starters? If so, have their stats trended in the new direction as you would expect? And if so, I contend that this supports keeping the ratings changes hidden and letting the user spot the trend.

I wonder though... does the AI need to see these ratings changes so it can value improving players appropriately? If the AI is unable to spot improving players on a monthly (or some other interval) basis by using stats, then the ratings changes may be the only way for the AI to know the true value of a player when dealing with roster changes, trades, etc. Hmmm...

(in reply to 33sherman)

Post #: 16

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/6/2006 10:45:43 PM

33sherman

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PadresFan104

quote:

ORIGINAL: 33sherman

quote:

ORIGINAL: PadresFan104

At the very least, visible ratings changes should be tied to playing time to make it more realistic.

I'm almost postive that the ratings change is indeed tied to playing time.

That's good news. So in your test seasons, have you seen the biggest changes amongst the starters? If so, have their stats trended in the new direction as you would expect? And if so, I contend that this supports keeping the ratings changes hidden and letting the user spot the trend.

I wonder though... does the AI need to see these ratings changes so it can value improving players appropriately? If the AI is unable to spot improving players on a monthly (or some other interval) basis by using stats, then the ratings changes may be the only way for the AI to know the true value of a player when dealing with roster changes, trades, etc. Hmmm...

The biggest changes were for all pitchers, the stuff rating in particular.

I think the visible ratings does help the AI (like I mentioned the AI is forced to develop players in the minors more instead of starting them right out of the gate because of high ratings). Maybe one solution would be a hide ratings toggle after the season starts.

(in reply to PadresFan104)

Post #: 17

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/6/2006 10:51:26 PM

verizon32

Posts: 168
Joined: 5/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 33sherman

quote:

ORIGINAL: PadresFan104

At the very least, visible ratings changes should be tied to playing time to make it more realistic.

I'm almost postive that the ratings change is indeed tied to playing time.

Age too?
Stats?

(in reply to 33sherman)

Post #: 18

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/7/2006 12:11:03 AM

modred

Posts: 64
Joined: 8/19/2005
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From my point of view I think puresim is treading into complexity that needs to be toggleable to keep it fun for someone who doesn't want to have to look at ratings every time he turns around.

(in reply to verizon32)

Post #: 19

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/7/2006 12:24:50 AM

PadresFan104

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I'm also curious about the bar charts that represent the players ratings changes over time. In previous versions it showed the changes season to season. In this new version, do these bar charts update with greater frequency?

(in reply to modred)

Post #: 20

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/7/2006 12:30:57 AM

puresimmer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: modred
From my point of view I think puresim is treading into complexity that needs to be toggleable to keep it fun for someone who doesn't want to have to look at ratings every time he turns around.

I don't agree. You don't have to look at the ratings, you can simply look at how players are performing and make decisions accordingly. The nice part about them being a bit more dynamic is that you are faced with some more interesting decisions around managing the minor leagues, older players fading late in the season, etc.

And yes, a lot of it is based on playing time (major and minor)

_____________________________

Developer, PureSim Baseball

(in reply to modred)

Post #: 21

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/7/2006 12:59:33 AM

PadresFan104

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Joined: 8/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: puresimmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: modred
From my point of view I think puresim is treading into complexity that needs to be toggleable to keep it fun for someone who doesn't want to have to look at ratings every time he turns around.

I don't agree. You don't have to look at the ratings, you can simply look at how players are performing and make decisions accordingly. The nice part about them being a bit more dynamic is that you are faced with some more interesting decisions around managing the minor leagues, older players fading late in the season, etc.

And yes, a lot of it is based on playing time (major and minor)

Not trying to be argumentative, but can you explain how the decisions are made more interesting? We already have the ability to follow a players performance on the field and know if he is surging or fading. Was thought ever given to having a players' arc change in mid-season, but hide the immediate ratings changes from the user? To me, that sounds like it would create "challenging" decisions vs. having the UI hit you over the head with what's going on.

Here's a thought, in real life, scouting reports are updated on some regular interval by a teams advanced scouts. These changes occur after some period of time and the performace to back up the new rating. The scouts need time to spot the trend. Maybe the ratings change in PureSim's UI shouldn't happen until some time period after the actual internal change was made. So maybe it takes a month or so for the UI to update to reflect the players improved skills, making the user still need to keep an eye on his players. This way, if I'm too stupid to notice, my scouts will eventually be there to let me know of the changes... I think this approach makes things more interesting as you get the opportunity to spot the changes before they are "reported".

Thoughts?

(in reply to puresimmer)

Post #: 22

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/7/2006 1:10:33 AM

VanScoy

Posts: 87
Joined: 12/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PadresFan104

quote:

ORIGINAL: puresimmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: modred
From my point of view I think puresim is treading into complexity that needs to be toggleable to keep it fun for someone who doesn't want to have to look at ratings every time he turns around.

I don't agree. You don't have to look at the ratings, you can simply look at how players are performing and make decisions accordingly. The nice part about them being a bit more dynamic is that you are faced with some more interesting decisions around managing the minor leagues, older players fading late in the season, etc.

And yes, a lot of it is based on playing time (major and minor)

Here's a thought, in real life, scouting reports are updated on some regular interval by a teams advanced scouts. These changes occur after some period of time and the performace to back up the new rating. The scouts need time to spot the trend. Maybe the ratings change in PureSim's UI shouldn't happen until some time period after the actual internal change was made. So maybe it takes a month or so for the UI to update to reflect the players improved skills, making the user still need to keep an eye on his players. This way, if I'm too stupid to notice, my scouts will eventually be there to let me know of the changes... I think this approach makes things more interesting as you get the opportunity to spot the changes before they are "reported".

Thoughts?

I dont know.... you are getting into OOTP2006 territory and that is not a good thing.

(in reply to PadresFan104)

Post #: 23

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/7/2006 1:16:48 AM

PadresFan104

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Joined: 8/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VanScoy
I dont know.... you are getting into OOTP2006 territory and that is not a good thing.

Which part? In-season ratings changes? Or the idea not to show the changes to the user right away? Does OOTP already work like this?

(in reply to VanScoy)

Post #: 24

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/7/2006 1:25:09 AM

VanScoy

Posts: 87
Joined: 12/2/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PadresFan104

quote:

ORIGINAL: VanScoy
I dont know.... you are getting into OOTP2006 territory and that is not a good thing.

Which part? In-season ratings changes? Or the idea not to show the changes to the user right away? Does OOTP already work like this?

No the in season ratings changes are awesome and much more realistic, in my opinion, but the whole scouting mechanism, as in having scouting be seperate from the ratings. OOTP has scouts "rated" in their ability to perceive ratings PLUS they have biases towards, say, power or clutch hitting. You have to send scouts out to scout teams ad players and the whole thing is so time comsuming and complicated, it turns me off.

(in reply to PadresFan104)

Post #: 25

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/7/2006 1:33:22 AM

PadresFan104

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Ok, I agree 100% with that and I wasn't trying to take the game in that direction. (Ick!) I just thought it would be cool if the rating changes weren't shown to the user right away, to better simulate real life.

(in reply to VanScoy)

Post #: 26

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/7/2006 2:35:20 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

Oh, my, let's not go the direction of micro-managing. I don't want this game to turn into a microscopic examination of each player's performance each week or so.

This, to me, would kill the joy of everyday game management. If Shaun really wants to go this route, I want pop-up messages from my scouts in-between games if a rating changes.

I like playing the dual roles of GM/everyday game manager, but give me the info between games via carrier pigeon or telephone or telex or e-mail or whatever. Don't make me have to look at it under the microscope until the next season begins.

To put it another way, for God's sakes, do NOT let this game become mired under layers of complexity. The simplicity is what I love about it.

And, to top it all, don't let the statistical model get skewed by these complex permutations. That would be be a giant step backwards, and you'd end up losing at least one customer.

(in reply to puresimmer)

Post #: 27

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/7/2006 3:02:38 AM

puresimmer

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I'll just make it an option.

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Developer, PureSim Baseball

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 28

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/7/2006 3:23:25 AM

33sherman

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

Just to clarify, I really think this is a great feature that just needs a little tweaking. For historical careers, I think it solves a problem that was introduced with the early-import feature--that of the AI starting early-imported 'stars' without developing them in the minors. In some cases this was resulting in players having longer than usual careers with less impressive production (from not having enough development time in the minors because the AI would use them to fill gaps in the lineup, or worse, use them as bench players when they could developing in the minors). So in that respect I think the feature also improves the statistical model.

I think the feature makes the game more challenging without making it more complex. Why? Because it's more difficult to stack a team with pitching, with major-league level pitchers waiting in the wings. Older pitchers may fizzle out, and younger pitchers may not mature enough to be ready for the big leagues. I have to say it was enjoyable (if frustrating) to be trying out every single pitcher in AAA to fill out the last two spots in my bullpen, and finding out that none of them are quite ready, and having to look elsewhere for a solution.

Finally, to see players break-out in the middle of the year and become stars is awesome. In the career I was playing Jackie Robinson went from hitting .220 in early June 1948 to .330 by the end of August. Again I think the possibility of those types of statistical swings (not random) is more realistic. You don't know quite what you have after spring training. A young player that you kick off the big-league roster in April just might be ready by September.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 29

RE: PureSim v1.36 RC5 Now Avail - With New Features - 9/7/2006 4:19:00 AM

PadresFan104

Posts: 1223
Joined: 8/8/2005
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I'm asking lots of questions, but not getting many answers. I've been trying to investigate this new feature myself, but I've been unsuccessful at downloading the patch (times out every time)....

1) Does the bar chart for player ratings update during the season? If not, where do we go to see the before and after? Is there a new report option?

2) Will we see less ratings changes when using the smaller scales (1-8, 1-10), thus missing out on some key info? But at our own choosing I guess.

3) How exactly does it solve the early-imported stars situation. How does gradual improvements over the year help keep the players in the minors? Wouldn't that cause them to be promoted sooner??

4) 33Sherman, in your example above regarding the AAA pitchers, I don't get the correlation of that situation with this new feature.

Now, I really like the idea of having the opportunity for players to have break out seasons that start sometime after April. That's ultra cool.

I think it may be jumping the gun to make this an option. It sounds like a good idea and I was just trying to present some thoughts for making it better.

(in reply to 33sherman)

Post #: 30