USSR war entry

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's World at War: A World Divided >> USSR war entry

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USSR war entry - 10/9/2006 9:34:28 PM

toddtreadway

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So it looks like there is a US and USSR entry table in the new game.

Is there any real possibility of attacking the Western Allies in France without taking Poland? What happens if you do this? Do tensions go up faster/slower with the USSR, etc.?

Post #: 1

RE: USSR war entry - 10/9/2006 10:16:01 PM

WanderingHead

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Poland starts the game as a Western Allies nation with WA troops, a single factory, and some supplies.

So they will be a thorn in the rear if ignored.

The game still has the limitation that friendly powers cannot exchange territory. So the WA left in Poland would mean that Poland is impassible to the Soviets.

However, there is an ever increasing garrison requirement for W Poland. Every turn one more garrison unit (inf, para, armor, mil) is required in W Poland to satisfy this requirement, and if not satisfied then Soviet War Readiness increases by the difference. So, if the Germans don't take it then USSR WR will start increasing rapidly, resulting in earlier Russian DOW and production increases.

On the whole, there might not be a balance issue with this, since the "impassible Poland" issue is perhaps offset by the earlier Soviet activity, but the game would be so awkward that though strictly allowed, I would suggest house rules that Poland must be taken if avoiding it were a viable alternative.

If the intent of the question is to take France, then turn around and take Poland, this would be playable. I don't think it would be an effective strategy given the setup, but it could be tried.

Another thing that can be tried is to violate the partition agreement ... the German can take the Baltic states and E Poland if desired. The Russian WR then increases dramatically. If the German can act very quickly to attack Russia before Russia DOWs, then this could be effective for the forward position it provides. I've never seen it tried ... it seems unlikely that it could be exploited fast enough.

(in reply to toddtreadway)

Post #: 2

RE: USSR war entry - 10/11/2006 11:43:12 PM

christian brown

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Joined: 5/18/2006
From: Vista, CA
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quote:

it seems unlikely that it could be exploited fast enough.

Indeed it is not, the Russian WR increase is dramatic and instant, they go to production multiplier 2 by turn 2 and they are more than ready to deal with the Nazis when they come, I�ve seen it twice from the Allied side and I can assure you my German opponent regretted it very quickly. IIRC he conceded in 1941!

_____________________________

"Those who would give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither and will lose both."
~ Thomas Jefferson

(in reply to WanderingHead)

Post #: 3

RE: USSR war entry - 10/12/2006 3:14:36 AM

Traveler

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"However, there is an ever increasing garrison requirement for W Poland. Every turn one more garrison unit (inf, para, armor, mil) is required in W Poland to satisfy this requirement, and if not satisfied then Soviet War Readiness increases by the difference. So, if the Germans don't take it then USSR WR will start increasing rapidly, resulting in earlier Russian DOW and production increases. "

So you can't play a senario where the USSR an the Axis have a non-agreesion pact?

(in reply to WanderingHead)

Post #: 4

RE: USSR war entry - 10/12/2006 3:25:06 AM

Joel Billings

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The game assumes the historical non-aggression pact is in place. That's why if the Germans don't allow for the partition of Poland they are breaking the pact. However, the assumption is that the pact will eventually be broken and the USSR will eventually fight Germany. When they are allowed to attack Germany is based on War Readiness levels which take into account many things in the game. This game is still an Axis and Allies type game that assumes eventually the Allies will consist of the Western Allies, the Soviet Union and the Chinese versus the Axis of Germany and Japan (along with potentially other minor countries). The included scenarios do not allow Germany and the Soviet Union to be on the same side.

< Message edited by Joel Billings -- 10/12/2006 3:27:32 AM >

(in reply to Traveler)

Post #: 5

RE: USSR war entry - 10/12/2006 8:18:57 AM

Traveler

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That's why I asked about editability in a different tread. WaW had hard bound assumptions about the course of history which are at best questionable. The USSRvs. Germany was in no way an inevitability. For that mater, neither was the actions by the U.S.

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 6

RE: USSR war entry - 10/23/2006 8:14:27 PM

dconklin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Traveler

That's why I asked about editability in a different tread. WaW had hard bound assumptions about the course of history which are at best questionable. The USSRvs. Germany was in no way an inevitability. For that mater, neither was the actions by the U.S.

Email them (2by3@2by3games.com) and tell them!

(in reply to Traveler)

Post #: 7

RE: USSR war entry - 10/23/2006 8:43:03 PM

Panzeh

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Germany blitzing france was in no way an inevitability either, but ah, that one isn't interesting enough.

(in reply to dconklin)

Post #: 8

RE: USSR war entry - 10/23/2006 9:12:18 PM

WanderingHead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Traveler
That's why I asked about editability in a different tread. WaW had hard bound assumptions about the course of history which are at best questionable. The USSRvs. Germany was in no way an inevitability. For that mater, neither was the actions by the U.S.

In some sense all of WWII was not inevitable either.

2by3 made a very reasonable decision to constrain the war to reflect the real war. The USSR will fight Germany, the USA will fight Japan, etc, the variability in this game is when and how it is initiated.

Obviously there are an infinite number of things that could have happened. But this is a game on WWII. And personally, I like it that way.

One area I think could be made more interesting is the Axis victory conditions. The AV is there since if the Allies all keep fighting it is presumed to be near impossible (with equal players) for the Axis to actually win the long term war.

But the presumption is that the Allies all keep fighting.

In reality, Russian collapse in particular was a very real possibility. I think that some Russian surrender rules, similar to Vichy rules, could make for an interesting "fight to the death" kind of scenario, where Axis success against Russia could allow for surrender and direct German control west of the Urals, a neutral neutered Russia east of the Urals, and an Axis shift of focus towards dealing with the WA.

Many people seem to like the idea of no-AV and fight to the death, and I think that this concept could allow it in a reasonably realistic way.

(in reply to Traveler)

Post #: 9