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..submarine warfare, 14/18.. - 2/6/2007 5:54:41 PM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
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From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
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“Tin Fish”
Sea Warfare
Rudyard Kipling


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE SHIPS destroy us above
And ensnare us beneath.
We arise, we lie down, and we
In the belly of Death.
The ships have a thousand eyes
To mark where we come . . .
But the mirth of a seaport dies
When our blow gets home.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Back | Words Home | Kipling Home | Site Info. | Feedback


..no Procrustes, he just changed his writing style, possibly because he was fed up with the total misunderstanding and misquoting of his words, possibly because he was chossed right-off with not being given his real place as a great poet, possibly because he was grief stricken, possibly any combination of the preceding..

..and i do mean great poet, po'ms that're easy t'speak, get right to the heart of things, and are simple to understand by common folk, especially when spoken out loud, as they all have a good beat to them, how that must have got up the nose of the romantic ponces of the day..

..or are you actually still putting forward the hackneyed idea, given the current examples on this forum, that he was really an advocate of any Empire ?..

_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,
Post #: 1
RE: ..submarine warfare, 14/18.. - 2/16/2007 3:55:41 PM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline
The Widow's Party
"Where have you been this while away,
Johnnie, Johnnie?"
'Long with the rest on a picnic lay,
Johnnie, my Johnnie, aha!
They called us out of the barrack-yard
To Gawd knows where from Gosport Hard,
And you can't refuse when you get the card,
And the Widow gives the party.
(Bugle: Ta--rara--ra-ra-rara!)

"What did you get to eat and drink,
Johnnie, Johnnie?"
Standing water as thick as ink,
Johnnie, my Johnnie, aha!
A bit o' beef that were three year stored,
A bit o' mutton as tough as a board,
And a fowl we killed with a sergeant's sword,
When the Widow give the party.

"What did you do for knives and forks,
Johnnie, Johnnie?"
We carries 'em with us wherever we walks,
Johnnie, my Johnnie, aha!
And some was sliced and some was halved,
And some was crimped and some was carved,
And some was gutted and some was starved,
When the Widow give the party.

"What ha' you done with half your mess,
Johnnie, Johnnie?"
They couldn't do more and they wouldn't do less,
Johnnie, my Johnnie, aha!
They ate their whack and they drank their fill,
And I think the rations has made them ill,
For half my comp'ny's lying still
Where the Widow give the party.

"How did you get away -- away,
Johnnie, Johnnie?"
On the broad o' my back at the end o' the day,
Johnnie, my Johnnie, aha!
I comed away like a bleedin' toff,
For I got four niggers to carry me off,
As I lay in the bight of a canvas trough,
When the Widow give the party.

"What was the end of all the show,
Johnnie, Johnnie?"
Ask my Colonel, for I don't know,
Johnnie, my Johnnie, aha!
We broke a King and we built a road --
A court-house stands where the reg'ment goed.
And the river's clean where the raw blood flowed
When the Widow give the party.
(Bugle: Ta--rara--ra-ra-rara!)


_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,

(in reply to a white rabbit)
Post #: 2
RE: ..submarine warfare, 14/18.. - 2/16/2007 8:25:16 PM   
Procrustes

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 3/30/2003
From: Upstate
Status: offline 		Hello, Mr. Rabbit!

Thank you! I'm not familiar with that last one. Sorry I missed this thread before - hope you saw my misplaced post over here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1373753

I always found Mr. K's poetry disconcerting in a funny way - fun to read, but the expressions can be haunting - I feel a subtext....

Are you a fan of any other poetry from the Great War?

============================================================

Does it Matter? (By Siegfried Sassoon)

Does it matter?—losing your legs?...
For people will always be kind,
And you need not show that you mind
When the others come in after hunting
To gobble their muffins and eggs.

Does it matter ?—losing your sight?...
There's such splendid work for the blind;
And people will always be kind,
As you sit on the terrace remembering
And turning your face to the light.

Do they matter?—those dreams from the pit?...
You can drink and forget and be glad,
And people won't say that you're mad;
For they'll know you've fought for your country
And no one will worry a bit.

============================================================

Best,



< Message edited by Procrustes -- 2/16/2007 8:45:13 PM >

(in reply to a white rabbit)
Post #: 3
RE: ..submarine warfare, 14/18.. - 2/16/2007 8:30:56 PM   
Procrustes

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 3/30/2003
From: Upstate
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
..no Procrustes, he just changed his writing style, possibly because he was fed up with the total misunderstanding and misquoting of his words, possibly because he was chossed right-off with not being given his real place as a great poet, possibly because he was grief stricken, possibly any combination of the preceding..


I obviously need to read more Kipling! Too many years with my nose stuck in books about nice, closed systems.


quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
..and i do mean great poet, po'ms that're easy t'speak, get right to the heart of things, and are simple to understand by common folk, especially when spoken out loud, as they all have a good beat to them, how that must have got up the nose of the romantic ponces of the day..


I agree. Even a near-sighted tin-ear like me catches it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
..or are you actually still putting forward the hackneyed idea, given the current examples on this forum, that he was really an advocate of any Empire ?..


Well... I admit that was what my old impression is, but you are starting to make me wonder. Keep up the good work!


(in reply to a white rabbit)
Post #: 4
RE: ..submarine warfare, 14/18.. - 2/17/2007 7:26:01 PM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline 		..

The Vampire1897
Rudyard Kipling







A FOOL there was and he made his prayer
(Even as you and I!)
To a rag and a bone and a hank of hair
(We called her the woman who did not care),
But the fool he called her his lady fair
(Even as you and I!)
Oh the years we waste and the tears we waste
And the work of our head and hand,
Belong to the woman who did not know
(And now we know that she never could know)
And did not understand.
A fool there was and his goods he spent
(Even as you and I!)
Honor and faith and a sure intent
But a fool must follow his natural bent
(And it wasn’t the least what the lady meant),
(Even as you and I!)
Oh the toil we lost and the spoil we lost
And the excellent things we planned,
Belong to the woman who didn’t know why
(And now we know she never knew why)
And did not understand.
The fool we stripped to his foolish hide
(Even as you and I!)
Which she might have seen when she threw him aside—
(But it isn’t on record the lady tried)
So some of him lived but the most of him died—
(Even as you and I!)
And it isn’t the shame and it isn’t the blame
That stings like a white hot brand.
It’s coming to know that she never knew why
(Seeing at last she could never know why)
And never could understand.



Back    |    Words Home    |    Kipling Home    |    Site Info.    |    Feedback
 
..read it out loud, and i'll shed tears with you..

_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,

(in reply to Procrustes)
Post #: 5
RE: ..submarine warfare, 14/18.. - 2/17/2007 7:41:01 PM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Procrustes

Hello, Mr. Rabbit!

Thank you! I'm not familiar with that last one. Sorry I missed this thread before - hope you saw my misplaced post over here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1373753

I always found Mr. K's poetry disconcerting in a funny way - fun to read, but the expressions can be haunting - I feel a subtext....

Are you a fan of any other poetry from the Great War?

============================================================

Does it Matter? (By Siegfried Sassoon)

Does it matter?—losing your legs?...
For people will always be kind,
And you need not show that you mind
When the others come in after hunting
To gobble their muffins and eggs.

Does it matter ?—losing your sight?...
There's such splendid work for the blind;
And people will always be kind,
As you sit on the terrace remembering
And turning your face to the light.

Do they matter?—those dreams from the pit?...
You can drink and forget and be glad,
And people won't say that you're mad;
For they'll know you've fought for your country
And no one will worry a bit.

============================================================

Best,




..i like poetry, but i like accesible po'try, as you say so well, with a hinted subtext..

..the pale romantics, nahhh, except for some paintings, i like my po'ms to have testicles, and that get right up the noses of, errrr anyone who can't understand that a poem written in 1898 can't possibly have relevance to today, after'll it's 2007 yahh?

..except Yeats, great lines...


< Message edited by a white rabbit -- 2/17/2007 8:00:05 PM >

_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,

(in reply to Procrustes)
Post #: 6
RE: ..submarine warfare, 14/18.. - 2/22/2007 8:38:43 AM   
Procrustes

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 3/30/2003
From: Upstate
Status: offline 		Here's a bit o' Yeats for ya -

I will to the King,
And offer him consolation in his trouble,
For that man there has set his teeth to die,
And being one that hates obedience,
Discipline, and orderliness of life,
I cannot mourn him.

- W. B. YEATS



I found it while perusing the following poem by Wilfred Owen. When I was a boy in the backwoods my best pal and fishing buddy was an old man who had been drafted into the AEF when he was 26. He talked a lot. What's old is ever new again....




S.I.W.

I The Prologue

Patting goodbye, doubtless they told the lad
He'd always show the Hun a brave man's face;
Father would sooner him dead than in disgrace, –
Was proud to see him going, aye, and glad.
Perhaps his mother whimpered how she'd fret
Until he got a nice safe wound to nurse.
Sisters would wish girls too could shoot, charge, curse...
Brothers – would send his favourite cigarette.
Each week, month after month, they wrote the same,
Thinking him sheltered in some Y. M. Hut,
Because he said so, writing on his butt
Where once an hour a bullet missed its aim.
And misses teased the hunger of his brain.
His eyes grew old with wincing, and his hand
Reckless with ague. Courage leaked, as sand
From the best sandbags after years of rain.
But never leave, wound, fever, trench-foot, shock,
Untrapped the wretch. And death seemed still withheld
For torture of lying machinally shelled,
At the pleasure of this world's Powers who'd run amok.

He'd seen men shoot their hands, on night patrol.
Their people never knew. Yet they were vile.
'Death sooner than dishonour, that's the style!'
So Father said.

II The Action

One dawn, our wire patrol
Carried him. This time, Death had not missed.
We could do nothing but wipe his bleeding cough.
Could it be accident? – Rifles go off...
Not sniped? No. (Later they found the English ball.)

III The Poem

It was the reasoned crisis of his soul
Against more days of inescapable thrall,
Against infrangibly wired and blind trench wall
Curtained with fire, roofed in with creeping fire,
Slow grazing fire, that would not burn him whole
But kept him for death's promises and scoff,
And life's half-promising, and both their riling.

IV The Epilogue

With him they buried the muzzle his teeth had kissed,
And truthfully wrote the mother, 'Tim died smiling.'

Wilfred Owen




< Message edited by Procrustes -- 2/22/2007 8:53:41 AM >

(in reply to a white rabbit)
Post #: 7
RE: ..submarine warfare, 14/18.. - 2/22/2007 3:47:19 PM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		Sassoon wrote some harsh stuff.

quote:


I knew a simple soldier boy
Who grinned at life in empty joy,
Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
And whistled early with the lark.
In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
He put a bullet through his brain.
No one spoke of him again.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
Siegfried Sassoon




_____________________________


(in reply to Procrustes)
Post #: 8
RE: ..submarine warfare, 14/18.. - 2/22/2007 6:07:48 PM   
Procrustes

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 3/30/2003
From: Upstate
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Sassoon wrote some harsh stuff.



Yeah, he did.

quote:


Survivors

No doubt they'll soon get well; the shock and strain
Have caused their stammering, disconnected talk.
Of course they're 'longing to go out again,' —
These boys with old, scared faces, learning to walk.
They'll soon forget their haunted nights; their cowed
Subjection to the ghosts of friends who died,—
Their dreams that drip with murder; and they'll be proud
Of glorious war that shatter'd all their pride...
Men who went out to battle, grim and glad;
Children, with eyes that hate you, broken and mad.

Craiglockhart. October, 1917.



Sassoon, Owens and Robert Graves all became friends during the war. Graves's memoir, "Goodbye To All That", is a very moving book.




< Message edited by Procrustes -- 2/22/2007 6:25:10 PM >

(in reply to EUBanana)
Post #: 9
RE: ..submarine warfare, 14/18.. - 2/26/2007 5:57:31 PM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Procrustes

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Sassoon wrote some harsh stuff.



Yeah, he did.

quote:


Survivors

No doubt they'll soon get well; the shock and strain
Have caused their stammering, disconnected talk.
Of course they're 'longing to go out again,' —
These boys with old, scared faces, learning to walk.
They'll soon forget their haunted nights; their cowed
Subjection to the ghosts of friends who died,—
Their dreams that drip with murder; and they'll be proud
Of glorious war that shatter'd all their pride...
Men who went out to battle, grim and glad;
Children, with eyes that hate you, broken and mad.

Craiglockhart. October, 1917.



Sassoon, Owens and Robert Graves all became friends during the war. Graves's memoir, "Goodbye To All That", is a very moving book.






..All Quiet on the Western Front ? anyone

..or
quote:

If any ask us why we died
Tell them,
Because our fathers lied
, Kipling

_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,

(in reply to Procrustes)
Post #: 10
RE: ..submarine warfare, 14/18.. - 2/26/2007 6:16:31 PM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline 		..remember all who read this thread,

..it'll end up good and dead

..if anyone mentions '98

..and reminds us all of a white man's burden

..cos,

..with the hard-on, then 'll come the hate

..and all that cak,

..as we remind them of......

..




..apologies to Kipling..

..and damn it, still not within the japanese rules for poetry..


< Message edited by a white rabbit -- 2/26/2007 6:38:55 PM >

_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,

(in reply to a white rabbit)
Post #: 11
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