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Unescorted B17's

 
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Unescorted B17's - 6/9/2007 4:05:28 PM   
cantona2


Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		what would be the best height to set B17's flying out of Darwin to close Ambonia airfield wihtout escorts?

Just about to move into january 1942 so zero bonus is still in effect

thanks


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1966 was a great year for English Football...Eric was born

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RE: Unescorted B17's - 6/9/2007 4:27:42 PM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline 		6-8K. Against Zeros you will shoot down 1 for every 3 you lose. Might as well make the strike worth the losses. If you can shut down the AF and destroy Zeros on the ground you will come out on top.

In 42 you will suffer a lot of damaged but few losses. The Zero does not have a high enough gun rating to kill many B-17s. Oscars are even less effective

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RE: Unescorted B17's - 6/9/2007 5:56:11 PM   
cantona2


Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		Thanks RUPD, so far he has nells, bettys and zeros there, ser my alt to 20,000 for the next turn, ill lower it for the next bombing run

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Post #: 3
RE: Unescorted B17's - 6/25/2007 5:28:01 AM   
zhengxuacmilan

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		My B17s have never flighted in that altitude, 6~8k. So what is the result?

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Post #: 4
RE: Unescorted B17's - 6/25/2007 5:30:58 AM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		I use 10,000 feet. I don't lose as many B-17s and the airfield still gets closed, just a couple of turns later.

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Post #: 5
RE: Unescorted B17's - 6/25/2007 6:26:33 AM   
KPAX


Posts: 735
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: Where the heart is; Home of the Fighting Irish
Status: offline 		Early on I keep my alt at the highest, until the production catches up. 

Rather be a little less effect and more planes, than sitting there waiting for the production to catch up with the losses.

Also, B-17s are not too bad at navai early, with a touch of Naval Search, the extra range is very nice.

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Thanks !!

KPAX

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Post #: 6
RE: Unescorted B17's - 6/25/2007 3:32:38 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Basically, if you want to close an AF, just put as many B-17s as you've got at 6k.  However...

There are often house rules vs. bombing below 12k.  There is an issue where the code can't handle flak under 12k very well, so some players don't allow bombing below 10k or whatever.  I'd check with your opponent if there are any altitude considerations.

If it's only January 42, I think Darwin is maybe a size 4?  Frankly, you're going to have trouble sustaining an attack on Ambonia.  Your B-17s will suffer about 30% damaged operating from the small AF, and that's in addition to whatever damage your aircraft take from enemy fire (which will probably be about 15% vs. Zeros).  Soon enough, Darwin will have a bunch of damaged B-17s, and then along comes a bombardmnet group and you loose a bunch them.  In January, I'm not sure that you really have enough to do the job.  You might, but I'm not sure I'd risk them in a big pile to temp a bombardment so early on.

-F-

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Post #: 7
RE: Unescorted B17's - 6/25/2007 6:51:17 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		I started early on building Darwin and Broome both. I used some dedicated AKs and got a lot of supply (from Karachi) in there early because I knew the IJN would come calling. They did and I took some losses. But I got Darwin up in size so I don't take the op losses.

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Post #: 8
RE: Unescorted B17's - 6/25/2007 9:31:24 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Well there you have it then!

I'd:
a.  Bomb as low as your house-rules will allow (but above 6000' : below 6k you take an accurcy and morale hit).  You will take more casualties and suffer more from flak, but most likely, your heavies can handle it.
b.  Put as many there as you are allowed by house-rules.  You should be able to stop Ambonia fairly soundly in just a few days.  Then you'll only need a squadron or 2 two to "maintain" the damage.
c.  To guard against ye olde nuke bombardment, consider creating a few small SC TFs with some throw aways like the 1200 end MSWs anything else you can afford to lose.  If you have PTs, so much the better, but you probably don't have very many in 01-42.  Use 2 - 3 ships per TF.  Probably 2 TFs, or 3 will definately do it.  Your SC TFs will get clobbered if he comes, but they'll burn the ammo/ops points from the enemy before the shut down Darwin AF.  You don't have to keep the SC TFs there -all- the time (continuously losing ships).  But they need to be there during your bombing week, so you don't get interrupted in the middle by a nuke.

-F-

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Post #: 9
RE: Unescorted B17's - 6/26/2007 2:32:29 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Try setting your B-17's on naval attack at about 11k (my house rule states that they cannot be set lower for this mission) with AF attack as secondary (set target as Ambonia). Also have the naval search at 20% to help spot any ships coming your way.  Do this with half your B-17's and try to get Hudsons there to attack naval targets.

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Post #: 10
RE: Unescorted B17's - 6/26/2007 11:20:08 AM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Well there you have it then!

I'd:
a.  Bomb as low as your house-rules will allow (but above 6000' : below 6k you take an accurcy and morale hit).  You will take more casualties and suffer more from flak, but most likely, your heavies can handle it.
b.  Put as many there as you are allowed by house-rules.  You should be able to stop Ambonia fairly soundly in just a few days.  Then you'll only need a squadron or 2 two to "maintain" the damage.
c.  To guard against ye olde nuke bombardment, consider creating a few small SC TFs with some throw aways like the 1200 end MSWs anything else you can afford to lose.  If you have PTs, so much the better, but you probably don't have very many in 01-42.  Use 2 - 3 ships per TF.  Probably 2 TFs, or 3 will definately do it.  Your SC TFs will get clobbered if he comes, but they'll burn the ammo/ops points from the enemy before the shut down Darwin AF.  You don't have to keep the SC TFs there -all- the time (continuously losing ships).  But they need to be there during your bombing week, so you don't get interrupted in the middle by a nuke.

-F-


Interesting. In reality, emplacing CD artillery on the coast and siting the air bases inland out of gun range (and with a reasonable level of dispersion) did the trick. Only an idiot shore-bombards a CD installation (unless he has to). Another one of those places where the game programmers were clueless about how naval operations really work.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

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Post #: 11
RE: Unescorted B17's - 6/26/2007 11:23:21 AM   
zhengxuacmilan

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		I think it is a good idea, though in my game, B17 is not allow to flight below 15k.

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Post #: 12
RE: Unescorted B17's - 6/26/2007 3:46:00 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
quote:

Interesting. In reality, emplacing CD artillery on the coast and siting the air bases inland out of gun range (and with a reasonable level of dispersion) did the trick. Only an idiot shore-bombards a CD installation (unless he has to). Another one of those places where the game programmers were clueless about how naval operations really work.


While I do agree with you Herwin, we've both played this game enough to know that there are some "suspensions of reality" in WitP.  We've also played this game long enough to know that some things aren't going to change either.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


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Post #: 13
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