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Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/12/2007 11:01:33 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Mr Sidney has made certain representations about the Japanese economic infrastructure and production capability that are, in my view, naive, indefensible and quaintly asiocentric. Sid's views are expressed in the "IJA 'Reinforced' Divisions" thread of the Scenario Design sub-forum.

These conclusions are wrong. Sid has no understanding of how production systems work in practice.

I am opening a thread here (there), but since it is not a scenario design issue, I am also opening this thread on the general open board. That would seem to be the best place to put this nonsense into its appropriate dustbin.

John W. Eldredge
jw.eldredge@cox.net

aka JWE
Post #: 1
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/12/2007 11:52:51 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I have a strange feeling this thread (and its cousin) won't see much traffic...

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Post #: 2
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 12:13:57 AM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I have a strange feeling this thread (and its cousin) won't see much traffic...


Probably right. Sidney has a couple parts that aren't screwed on quite correctly. If I can help some of the players get past his utter bull sh!t, I will have gained a point or two in purgatory.

Half a league, half a league;
Half a league onward;
All in the valley of death;
Rode the six hundred;
Forward, the Light Brigade;
Charge for the guns’ he said;
Into the valley of Death;
Rode the six hundred..

Sid want's to play, I'll be ready.

John W. Eldredge
jw.eldredge@cox.net.

Ciao.

Bring him on. Ciao. JWE

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 3
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 12:18:44 AM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

Posts: 837
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: A Very Nice Place in the USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I have a strange feeling this thread (and its cousin) won't see much traffic...


Probably right. Sidney has a couple parts that aren't screwed on quite correctly. If I can help some of the players get past his utter bull sh!t, I will have gained a point or two in purgatory.
Half a league, half a league;
Half a league onward;
All in the valley of death;
Rode the six hundred;
Forward, the Light Brigade;
Charge for the guns’ he said;
Into the valley of Death;
Rode the six hundred..

Sid want's to play, I'll be ready.

John W. Eldredge
jw.eldredge@cox.net.

Ciao.

Bring him on. Ciao. JWE


Good luck, you will need lots of it, along with a lot of TP for clean up.

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 4
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 12:47:48 AM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpt Sherwood

Good luck, you will need lots of it, along with a lot of TP for clean up.



Howdy Cpt., I won't need TP; my a$$ is clean and good to go. Other a$$es will indeed require TP, at least, if not a good douche from a flamethrower.

I'm just tired of Sidney's bull $hit, and decided that now is the time to return the Scenario Design sub-forum to people who have an interest in scenario design.

Soldiering on, I am, as always, JWE. Ciao.

(in reply to Cpt Sherwood)
Post #: 5
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 2:21:23 AM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Mr Sidney has made certain representations about the Japanese economic infrastructure and production capability that are, in my view, naive, indefensible and quaintly asiocentric. Sid's views are expressed in the "IJA 'Reinforced' Divisions" thread of the Scenario Design sub-forum.

These conclusions are wrong. Sid has no understanding of how production systems work in practice.

I am opening a thread here (there), but since it is not a scenario design issue, I am also opening this thread on the general open board. That would seem to be the best place to put this nonsense into its appropriate dustbin.

John W. Eldredge
jw.eldredge@cox.net

aka JWE



I was one of those having the discussion with "El Cid", and will admit that he's sometimes as hard to pin down as a greased eel. I will state categorically that I have never seen anything that would support the notion that the Japanese understood Assembly Line Mass Production as it was practiced in the United States until after the Second World War. Japan had been making preparations for war since the early '30's, and had been at war since 1937. Yet when the war ended, they still had not completed the change-over planned for their basic infantry weapons. They designed some solid weapons (ie. the 100mm DP gun) but rarely built them in enough numbers to be of significance. The Zero went into production in 1940, the Merlin-powered Mustang in mid-1943, yet the US produced 15,000 P-51B's and D's in just over 2 years compared to less than 10,500 Zeros in 5 years. The Japanese simply were not in the same league with the US in a war of attrition..., which meant they had to use their young men in place of material. Those young men fought with the courage of desperation; but the US met it with the certainty of overwhelming material superiority..., and the courage of it's own young men. The Japanese trusted in the willingness of their troops to die, and the US in producing more than enough ordnance to kill them all if necessary.


(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 6
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 2:25:30 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		I didn't know anybody actually listened to cid. 

Either way, it's his mod - RHEOSPMS (or whatever it is).  Obviously he's created a "what-if" WitP, so just let it be.  You don't have to play it JWE.

-F-

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RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 2:29:40 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Not that simple, Feinder...

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Post #: 8
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 2:33:17 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Rats.

I'm in a simple mood.

Actually, I'm in the mood to do turns, and there are none in my in-box...



-F-

_____________________________

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Post #: 9
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 2:37:06 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Irritating, isn't it?

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 10
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 2:42:10 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Yep.

Esp because I want to see how my counter-attack at Clark Field went. Bilbow is playing the "bottle up Manila" game (meanwhile, let's invade Oz). He's got a bunch of aircraft "training" at Clark (by bombing Manila). If figured I'd march out and attack before the supplies are "problematic". I might even get 2:1, toss him back, and wouldn't it be grand to destroy about 200 aircraft on the ground (wishful thinking, I know).

If I don't get favorable odds, I'll pull back to Manila, and wait for the end.

But boy, I would just laugh my arse off if my attack at Clark succeeds.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


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Post #: 11
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 2:44:24 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Hey, whatever happened to ISSUES NOT PEOPLE !!!


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Post #: 12
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 2:45:58 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		We do that around here?

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 13
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 2:55:07 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Please understand that I am completely and utterly full of sh1t anyway, and that my presence in this thread is merely indicative of my otherwise current state of boredom.  Frankly, I'm not even really sure what the "issue" is (something about Japanese production?).

Ooooh.  It's raining.  Wunderbar.  I definately don't have to cut the lawn now. 

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


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Post #: 14
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 3:14:59 AM   
bobogoboom


Posts: 3799
Joined: 2/13/2006
From: Dallas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

We do that around here?

You don't everyone else does for the most part

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Post #: 15
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 3:18:22 AM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Hey, whatever happened to ISSUES NOT PEOPLE !!!



It is actually issues. Unfortunately, it does devolve into people, because it is people that insist on intruding themselves. Don't you think it's time that normal people were able to post on and utilize the Matrix Games Scenario Editor sub-forum without being overwhelmed by a distinct and particularist minority that resides thereon?

I, for one, am rather incensed that an entire sub-forum is closed to me because of its denizens. Scenario design is an important feature of the game, and I (and possibly others) am reluctant to express my views therein given the proclivities of those who feel that sub-forum is their private domain.

Maybe the best solution is to give (call it Sam, call it EIEIO, call it whatever) those folks their own top-level forum, so that they can play amongst themselves, and let the rest of us alone.

Just an observation. Ciao

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 16
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 9:45:13 PM   
Naskra

 

Posts: 325
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		JWE, I'll cast a vote of sympathy here.  That forum is quite well choked up with bombast.

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Post #: 17
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 10:11:01 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Yep.

Esp because I want to see how my counter-attack at Clark Field went. Bilbow is playing the "bottle up Manila" game (meanwhile, let's invade Oz). He's got a bunch of aircraft "training" at Clark (by bombing Manila). If figured I'd march out and attack before the supplies are "problematic". I might even get 2:1, toss him back, and wouldn't it be grand to destroy about 200 aircraft on the ground (wishful thinking, I know).

If I don't get favorable odds, I'll pull back to Manila, and wait for the end.

But boy, I would just laugh my arse off if my attack at Clark succeeds.

-F-

Good luck....I tried that with Graycompany managed to get 1:1 odds and gave him a few days of heartburn...alas the supplies ran low.

Ok that was my OT comment for the day.

Edit: P.S. this forum could use a really hot debate, it's been a while.

< Message edited by niceguy2005 -- 8/13/2007 10:12:16 PM >

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Post #: 18
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 10:35:37 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
quote:

Edit: P.S. this forum could use a really hot debate, it's been a while.


Great minds think alike. I was thinking I sorta missed the days of killer Dorniers and Hirohito-strategems. Alas, I think we have heard them all (but not the last) of "4e vs. Naval", "Ground combat is borked", "Japanese mass-production", "PT boats kicked my butt", "Zero bonus = WTF?", "Why am I shock-attacking", "Corsairs and Hellcats = Holy Schnikeys!", and "Every gosh-darned Jap bomber carries a torp!"

Hm.

Some potential OT hot topics...

1. Tax or Spend.
2. Blondes or Redheads.
3. Pilsner or Lager.
4. Chocolate or Vanilla.
5. To be, or not to be.

(* sigh *)

Bored.
-F-

PS - Actually, what we really need is a PATCH! Patches, no matter how perfect, always produce a host of whining!

-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 8/13/2007 10:37:35 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 10:43:36 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		6. Taste great or less filling.

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 20
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 10:52:59 PM   
Coach Z

 

Posts: 576
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: New York
Status: offline 		Feinder
In answer to your questions....
1. Spend
2. Which ever says yes 1st!
3. Lager
4. Chocolate
5. That is the questiuon isnt it?

PLUS I prefer the Japanese style Steak Houses where the cook in fornt of you!

_____________________________

ZUCK

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Post #: 21
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 10:54:05 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		7. Ginger or MaryAnne

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 22
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 11:02:35 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		2. Redheads

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Post #: 23
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 11:02:51 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Auburn, actually.

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Post #: 24
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 11:03:49 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
1. Hang 'em all
2. Both
3. Both
4. Whatever #2 wants
5. whichever...a rose by any other name, would it not smell as sweet.





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Post #: 25
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 11:04:29 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

7. Ginger or MaryAnne

Both.

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Post #: 26
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/13/2007 11:27:31 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Poor Mrs. Howell.



Ben Franklin was a big proponent of older women.  He wrote a rather humorous essay about it.  Ever read it?

Apologue on having an older mistress

-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 8/13/2007 11:28:59 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 27
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/14/2007 12:09:40 AM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Poor Mrs. Howell.



Ben Franklin was a big proponent of older women.  He wrote a rather humorous essay about it.  Ever read it?

Apologue on having an older mistress

-F-



What a gem and a wonderful read...I have forwarded this to several friends that have an immediate need to read it.

How little has changed in several hundred years.


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Post #: 28
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/14/2007 12:11:10 AM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline 		1. Tax or Spend. Neither..., it's MY money..., leave it alone!

2. Blondes or Redheads. Blonde to the left of me.., Redhead to the right of me..., heart attack in front of me.

3. Pilsner or Lager. As often as possible...

4. Chocolate or Vanilla. Yes!

5. To be, or not to be. To be (of course). If I weren't I couldn't enjoy 2, 3, and 4. Stupid question.

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 29
RE: Japanese Production Capabilities - 8/14/2007 12:18:11 AM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
quote:

7. Because the Compunction is less. The having made a young Girl miserable may give you frequent bitter Reflections; none of which can attend the making an old Woman happy.

8thly and Lastly They are so grateful!!




The words of personal experience? One wonders.

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