Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ?

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Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/22/2008 11:47:45 AM

gladiatt

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Joined: 4/10/2008
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March 1942, allies, AI japs, historical level.

East of Australia, just at the border of Coral Reaf, my Naval Search are seeing ships like AP, CA or AG, seeming isolated (one ship at a time only). But my own ships and Naval Attack planes dont see anything....only subs, wich is a very effective threat (so far 4 MSW, a PG and a DD sunk, Saratoga, CA Phoenix and 3 DD damaged.....argghhhhh).

So my question : does the supply in australia consist mainly of beer or alcoohol (or even more prohibited stuffs !!!! )

and can the Naval Search crew "imagine" seeing ships that are only subs in so great numbers?

Does it sound normal for a game ? (of course FOW is on).

And how to sink those damned japaneses subs

(having yet only 3DD or so in australia, seems very "light" to treat the threat...)

Post #: 1

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/22/2008 2:06:55 PM

John Lansford

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Joined: 4/29/2002
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Search crews with low experience tend to mis-identify the subs; you can figure that 99% of the time a single ship sighting is probably a sub instead of a CA or DD. When they get some more experience they'll start getting the ship type correct.

A little more understandable is when I get multiple reports that a surface ship TF contains "BB" and "CA", when in reality there was a big CL (Oyodo) and some destroyers escorting a few merchant ships.

(in reply to gladiatt)

Post #: 2

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/22/2008 2:14:27 PM

rtrapasso

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Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Search crews with low experience tend to mis-identify the subs; you can figure that 99% of the time a single ship sighting is probably a sub instead of a CA or DD. When they get some more experience they'll start getting the ship type correct.

A little more understandable is when I get multiple reports that a surface ship TF contains "BB" and "CA", when in reality there was a big CL (Oyodo) and some destroyers escorting a few merchant ships.

Note that this was historically accurate, with US aircrews reporting sinking large Japanese warships when in fact they missed, and the ship attacked was an Allied sub (which crash dived)... This identification improved as the war went on...

Japanese crews were said to be even worse and possibly were (i think the more experienced/better the crew, the more likely they were to get transferred out of search aircraft into bombers or other fighting plane).

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 4/22/2008 2:15:11 PM >

(in reply to John Lansford)

Post #: 3

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/22/2008 2:39:12 PM

Gem35

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From: Dallas, Texas
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One thing to note about what your search planes find, the TF speed can give them away.
If it's moving around 8-10 knot then it is more than likely transports or such, 15-18 knots and it may be surface combat vessels.

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(in reply to rtrapasso)

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RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/22/2008 3:58:56 PM

gladiatt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

One thing to note about what your search planes find, the TF speed can give them away.
If it's moving around 8-10 knot then it is more than likely transports or such, 15-18 knots and it may be surface combat vessels.

Well, i didn't even had time to count the speed for one of this TF.....a jap Bombardement TF just crashed in Port Moresby, sunk 2 AK, destroy 17 4E planes, disrupt troops, and get back to Rabaul....my planes only watch them on the return, not while coming (and it's a pitty: theses japs ships had no air cover, and i had just 12 Hudson with 80 exp level awaiting for them....

)

(in reply to Gem35)

Post #: 5

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/22/2008 5:05:55 PM

Mistmatz

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Joined: 10/16/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

One thing to note about what your search planes find, the TF speed can give them away.
If it's moving around 8-10 knot then it is more than likely transports or such, 15-18 knots and it may be surface combat vessels.

Well, i didn't even had time to count the speed for one of this TF.....a jap Bombardement TF just crashed in Port Moresby, sunk 2 AK, destroy 17 4E planes, disrupt troops, and get back to Rabaul....my planes only watch them on the return, not while coming (and it's a pitty: theses japs ships had no air cover, and i had just 12 Hudson with 80 exp level awaiting for them.... )

See, your search crews told you before there is something looming...

(in reply to gladiatt)

Post #: 6

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/22/2008 5:14:02 PM

gladiatt

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Joined: 4/10/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

One thing to note about what your search planes find, the TF speed can give them away.
If it's moving around 8-10 knot then it is more than likely transports or such, 15-18 knots and it may be surface combat vessels.

Well, i didn't even had time to count the speed for one of this TF.....a jap Bombardement TF just crashed in Port Moresby, sunk 2 AK, destroy 17 4E planes, disrupt troops, and get back to Rabaul....my planes only watch them on the return, not while coming (and it's a pitty: theses japs ships had no air cover, and i had just 12 Hudson with 80 exp level awaiting for them.... )

See, your search crews told you before there is something looming...

I think they were at the bar, and then took a rest

then they thought "oh, time to take off, no??"

and then told me "hey, you've just received the welcome of 2BB, they are heading home

I repeat it : too much bear in Australia Area....
Seems my dutch are more sober (no beer in DEI AF

(in reply to Mistmatz)

Post #: 7

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/22/2008 7:24:37 PM

niceguy2005

Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

March 1942, allies, AI japs, historical level.

East of Australia, just at the border of Coral Reaf, my Naval Search are seeing ships like AP, CA or AG, seeming isolated (one ship at a time only). But my own ships and Naval Attack planes dont see anything....only subs, wich is a very effective threat (so far 4 MSW, a PG and a DD sunk, Saratoga, CA Phoenix and 3 DD damaged.....argghhhhh).

So my question : does the supply in australia consist mainly of beer or alcoohol (or even more prohibited stuffs !!!! ) and can the Naval Search crew "imagine" seeing ships that are only subs in so great numbers?

Does it sound normal for a game ? (of course FOW is on).

And how to sink those damned japaneses subs
(having yet only 3DD or so in australia, seems very "light" to treat the threat...)

You haven't ever been to Australia have you?

_____________________________

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(in reply to gladiatt)

Post #: 8

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/22/2008 7:48:58 PM

rtrapasso

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Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

I repeat it : too much bear in Australia Area..

How are the koalas messing up your searches??

(in reply to gladiatt)

Post #: 9

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/23/2008 10:31:31 AM

gladiatt

Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

March 1942, allies, AI japs, historical level.

East of Australia, just at the border of Coral Reaf, my Naval Search are seeing ships like AP, CA or AG, seeming isolated (one ship at a time only). But my own ships and Naval Attack planes dont see anything....only subs, wich is a very effective threat (so far 4 MSW, a PG and a DD sunk, Saratoga, CA Phoenix and 3 DD damaged.....argghhhhh).

So my question : does the supply in australia consist mainly of beer or alcoohol (or even more prohibited stuffs !!!! ) and can the Naval Search crew "imagine" seeing ships that are only subs in so great numbers?

Does it sound normal for a game ? (of course FOW is on).

And how to sink those damned japaneses subs
(having yet only 3DD or so in australia, seems very "light" to treat the threat...)

You haven't ever been to Australia have you?

Sorry, never went in Australia...a bit long from Europe.

What should i learn about it?

(in reply to niceguy2005)

Post #: 10

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/23/2008 10:32:52 AM

gladiatt

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Joined: 4/10/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

I repeat it : too much bear in Australia Area..

How are the koalas messing up your searches??

Get it: it's not the bear, it's eucalyptus smell that make hallucinations to my pilotes

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 11

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/23/2008 10:40:43 AM

bradfordkay

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

March 1942, allies, AI japs, historical level.

East of Australia, just at the border of Coral Reaf, my Naval Search are seeing ships like AP, CA or AG, seeming isolated (one ship at a time only). But my own ships and Naval Attack planes dont see anything....only subs, wich is a very effective threat (so far 4 MSW, a PG and a DD sunk, Saratoga, CA Phoenix and 3 DD damaged.....argghhhhh).

So my question : does the supply in australia consist mainly of beer or alcoohol (or even more prohibited stuffs !!!! ) and can the Naval Search crew "imagine" seeing ships that are only subs in so great numbers?

Does it sound normal for a game ? (of course FOW is on).

And how to sink those damned japaneses subs
(having yet only 3DD or so in australia, seems very "light" to treat the threat...)

You haven't ever been to Australia have you?

Sorry, never went in Australia...a bit long from Europe.
What should i learn about it?

The Aussies are, shall we say, MORE than fond of beer.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to gladiatt)

Post #: 12

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/23/2008 10:57:49 AM

gladiatt

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Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

March 1942, allies, AI japs, historical level.

East of Australia, just at the border of Coral Reaf, my Naval Search are seeing ships like AP, CA or AG, seeming isolated (one ship at a time only). But my own ships and Naval Attack planes dont see anything....only subs, wich is a very effective threat (so far 4 MSW, a PG and a DD sunk, Saratoga, CA Phoenix and 3 DD damaged.....argghhhhh).

So my question : does the supply in australia consist mainly of beer or alcoohol (or even more prohibited stuffs !!!! ) and can the Naval Search crew "imagine" seeing ships that are only subs in so great numbers?

Does it sound normal for a game ? (of course FOW is on).

And how to sink those damned japaneses subs
(having yet only 3DD or so in australia, seems very "light" to treat the threat...)

You haven't ever been to Australia have you?

Sorry, never went in Australia...a bit long from Europe.
What should i learn about it?

The Aussies are, shall we say, MORE than fond of beer.

HMMM, that's what i've already heard, so the title of my thread

But if you confirm it

(in reply to bradfordkay)

Post #: 13

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/23/2008 10:58:01 AM

marky

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Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
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searches and recon are notorious for being wrong and mis identifying ships, and they were in RL as well

Coral Sea, May 1942

a huge deckload of nip carrier planes slaughtered oiler Neosho and destroyer Sims because they were ID'd as a carrier and a cruiser!

and i believe we even made the same mistake!

we sent our own huge deckloads after poor little Shoho, obliterating her in about 20 minutes

ships can sometimes be mis id'd from great altitude and or range, not to mention the fact that the pilots and observers eyes being over tired can contribute to it

IIRC Dudley Morton and Dick O'Kane had constant rotations for the lookouts, changing so theyd stay sharp and alert, and didnt get over tired

and of course since the nips had sum good radar detectors like the germans did, using surface search or air search radar was tantamount to a big sign saying:

HERE WE ARE A US NAVY BOAT ON PATROL COME DROP SOME ASHCANS AND BOMBS ON US!!!!

< Message edited by marky -- 4/23/2008 10:59:31 AM >

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RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/23/2008 11:02:16 AM

gladiatt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marky

searches and recon are notorious for being wrong and mis identifying ships, and they were in RL as well

Coral Sea, May 1942

a huge deckload of nip carrier planes slaughtered oiler Neosho and destroyer Sims because they were ID'd as a carrrier and a cruiser!

and i believe we even made the same mistake!

we sent our own huge deckloads after poor little Shoho, obliterating her in about 20 minutes

ships can sometimes be mis id'd from great altituder and or range, not to mention the fact that the pilots and observeres eyes being over tired can contribute to it

IIRC Dudley Morton and Dick O'Kane had constant rotations for the lookouts, changing so theyd stay sharp and alert, and didnt get over tired

Yeah, i knew the story of poor Neosho and Sims.
Recon always miss, so people should ask: why to have some?

During Napoleonnic wars, 16 june 1815, at Quatre-Bras, Prussian army of Blucher thought to have just a french cav brigade facing it....but it was Ney with an entire Cav Corps....and Quatre-bras was a defeat for the prussian (wich lead to pursuit by Grouchy, and so...to the defeat of Napoleon

(in reply to marky)

Post #: 15

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/23/2008 11:07:04 AM

marky

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well better to have sumthing misreported than not know its there eh

amazing how things tie up together in wartime sumtimes eh?

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Post #: 16

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/23/2008 11:21:29 AM

gladiatt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marky

well better to have sumthing misreported than not know its there eh�

amazing how things tie up together in wartime sumtimes eh?

Yes, i think a commander on field is rather to be bad-eyed (sorry, don't know the real english word), than blind !
Rather "there's something there, not sure what it is", than "no idea where ennemy is, why, it's important for you Sir ?"

(in reply to marky)

Post #: 17

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/24/2008 12:18:39 PM

tabpub

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a thread like this is always hilarious.

The Germans were almost always way behind in the radar game; as the Allied radar was reducing it's wavelength to ranges that the Germans were not aware of.

Quatre-Bras was a English/Allied fight, not Prussian; the Prussians fought at Wavre.
Though, Ney was at Quatre-Bras; and the English ended up retiring from there.

_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to gladiatt)

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RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/24/2008 12:24:40 PM

gladiatt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tabpub

a thread like this is always hilarious.

The Germans were almost always way behind in the radar game; as the Allied radar was reducing it's wavelength to ranges that the Germans were not aware of.

Quatre-Bras was a English/Allied fight, not Prussian; the Prussians fought at Wavre.
Though, Ney was at Quatre-Bras; and the English ended up retiring from there.

Sorry for the mistake. I like military history, but i'm not really found of napoleonic era.
Thanks for the precisions

.
Anyway, the example is always valid

(in reply to tabpub)

Post #: 19

RE: Does the Naval Search get a lot of beer ? - 4/24/2008 2:48:41 PM

AW1Steve

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For what it's worth , even in modern times (15 years ago) patrol plane crews still screw up on idenitifcation. About that time I was on a flight returning from deployment in Iceland (a time when crews are normally at their highest training and at their sharpest). I was working on a RECO lesson I was to give (ship and aircraft recognition), when I heard some ICS (intercom) chatter coming from the flight station. It seems that we were flying over a warship and the pilots and a few of the other crewmen were debating the identitity. "Aegis!" "Perry!" "Krivak!" (Krivak? Off the coast of Maine--now THAT got my attention!). I went forward and saw a light colored frigate sized warship , clearly of European construction.
When I Id'ed the ship as Detuchland, a German training ship, there was wholesale disagreement. A few minutes later we radioed and confirmed that , yes, indeed it was Duetchland returning from a port call.

I went back to work on my lesson.....I had a feeling that this crew was going to need a LOT of training!

(in reply to gladiatt)

Post #: 20

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