CV32
Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tiemanj
Forgive me again, but some more newbie questions:
Absolutely, please do. That's why this forum exists. I'll try and tackle your questions.
quote:
I'm trying to attack an enemy surface group consisting of to DDs (Luda I's) and a DDG (Luyang). I attacked the Luyang from the side where the Ludas couldn't support it. I shot 16 harpoons and 2 HARMs while jamming the group with an EA6.
Firstly, I have to make some assumptions, namely: You're attacking the Luyang I (Type 052B) only and ignoring the Luda I's (except for your jamming, which is indiscriminate anyway). And the Chinese group is unsupported by other enemy assets, i.e. it doesn't enjoy friendly radar or air defense coverage from other sources.
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2 of the missles got close enough to be shot down by the close in weapons systems on the DDG (the rest were shot down by missiles).
Which ones, Harpoon or HARM? The Luyang (052B) is a pretty modern warship, equipped with decent radars and air defense systems.
The SA-N-12 Grizzly SAM systems are single rail launchers, but they have a respectable rate of fire and a better than even chance (60%) of knocking down their target.
The Type 730 CIWS you mention are reported to be roughly comparable (in both appearance and performance) to the Goalkeeper system, and are even more likely than the SA-N-12 to shoot down your missiles (in the point defense phase). One kicker about the guns: the code presently ignores gun arcs, so both of those Type 730's would be available to defend against your missiles (even though they're mounted port and starboard), regardless of which side you made your attack.
Topping it off, the Luyang has decent chaff/flare decoy launchers to further reduce your missiles' hit probability.
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My question is, how should I approach this attack. Did I not use enough missiles? It seems like a lot of missiles to do nothing... When attacking a surface group, should I: launch all missiles from the same direction, or attack from multiple directions? I figured same direction so that I overload the defenses that can defend that section of the ship, but perhaps I'm missing something.
Launching from multiple directions is only useful if you can exploit gaps in the formation or some limitation in the targeted ship's own defenses. You were keen enough to remove the Ludas (crappy as they are) from the equation, and given the well balanced nature of the Luyang's air defense systems, I'd say you pretty much maxed out what you could glean from attacking from multiple axes.
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What direction(s) should I attack from. After the attack, I looked at his weapons, and it appears that this ship has half its SAMs that can't shoot forward, and half can't shoot backwards. The sides are double covered. Would attacking from the front help, or will he just turn.
This is a possibility, but the gap in the SA-N-12 missile arcs fore and aft is very small. I think in most cases you're pretty unlikely to evade the employment of both launchers.
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How many missiles should I use?
A good rule of thumb is to calculate what you think you might need and then double it. 
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What about TLADs?
I always recommend saturating a target with decoys (like TALD or ITALD) if they're available, and always in conjunction with jamming, anti-radar missiles (like HARM) and the heavy stuff (like Harpoon). Generally speaking, you want your decoys arriving on target at the same time or a little ahead of your Harpoons (because the decoys are slower and you don't want your Harpoons to overtake them in the terminal phase of the attack). With any luck, the defending ship will use up a lot of its available rate of fire trying to shoot down the decoys.
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Should I attack in waves (and if so how). For example should I attack with HARMs first to try to hammer his radars, then launch the harpoons?
Ideally, attack en masse and in force. Overwhelm the target by the simultaneous (or near simultaneous) arrival of jamming, decoys, anti-radar missiles and anti-ship missiles. Attacking a well defended target in waves usually means your attacks get shot down piecemeal (unless you have lots of time, missiles, and the means to deliver them in wave after wave). Remember, you only need one or two Harpoon hits to put the hurt on a destroyer.
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Finally, how does this compare with real life? Thanks for the help.
I think its appreciably tougher in real life to shoot down anti-ship cruise missiles (like Harpoon) because of issues like clutter, ECCM, the potential for shipboard equipment breakdowns (though, admittedly, this can work both ways), and the 'human' factor (witness what happened to the INS Hanit). I also think small, high speed targets like HARM make for very tough targets indeed, and few air defense systems would be able to deal with them under most circumstances.
< Message edited by CV32 -- 12/13/2008 7:53:48 PM >
_____________________________
Brad Leyte HC3 development group member for HCE Author of HCDB official database for HCE Harpgamer.com Co-Owner |
Printable Version
attacking enemy surface groups - 
The Luyang (052B) does indeed have two single-rail launchers for its SA-N-12 system. If you call up the Platform Display during game play, select the Luyang and then go into Weapon Detail, you can have a look at the SA-N-12 more closely. You can see that each launcher has 24 ready-to-fire missiles (Qty), can engage three targets simultaneously (AIR/3), range 19.8 nm, and hit probability 60%. Rate of fire (ROF) is not shown here, but you can see it in the database using the Platform Editor (PE), and in this case ROF is 6 per turn. 
Harpoon Classic Scenarios - 
RE: attacking enemy surface groups - 
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