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# of units that fire Op Fire??

 
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# of units that fire Op Fire?? - 10/12/2000 6:53:00 PM   
Tommy

 

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Is it my imagination or do only 2 units ever fire op fire at each enemy unit, for each opportunity? I've been setting up ambushes with 6 units around a "kill zone' hex. An enemy unit steps into the kill zone hex and only 2 of the 6 units take op fire at it. Then the enemy shoots. If a second enemy unit then steps in, 2 of my units fire (it may or may not be the same 2 units), then the enemy fires back. I never get all 6 units firing at the enemy - even though this is probably what would happen in real life. Is this 2 unit rule real? Tommy

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- 10/12/2000 7:03:00 PM   
Arralen


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quote:

Originally posted by Tommy: Is it my imagination or do only 2 units ever fire op fire at each enemy unit, for each opportunity ...Is this 2 unit rule real?
IIRC - yes RTFM, by the way, should be noted there if it is that way. (did not read it either up to now - time pressures, you know) Arralen

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- 10/12/2000 7:22:00 PM   
Tommy

 

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RTFM!!!! I don't need no stinkin manual! It's actually not in the manual. The Op fire section just gives a general description of it, what triggers it, etc. I see that McGib also spotted this (see his thread). We get 2 shots, the AI gets unlimited shots - not fair! I'm running ver 4.3 Tommy

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- 10/12/2000 7:32:00 PM   
Fredde

 

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No, the AI does not get unlimited shots. It plays with the same rules as you do (at least in the scenarios i have played). Also, as has been pointed out in other threads, the reason for the limit of 2 opfiring units is to make the online game playable. Imagine having 30 units with LOS to the enemy, and having to click yes or no for each and every chance to opfire with a unit.. tedious and long-winded. That would take a long long time. It's a good compromise with two units i think. What I would like to see though is an option on the preference page where you can specify how many units that are allowed to opfire This option can/should be defaulted to two units, but possible to change.

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"If infantry is the Queen of the battlefield, artillery is her backbone", Jukka L. Mäkelä about the Finnish victory at Ihantala.

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- 10/12/2000 8:20:00 PM   
Charles22

 

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Fredde: While I understand the monotony of the player having large numbers of op fire opportunities, perhaps the AI should be limited to two instances as well. It's pretty obvious that there are times when he will fire more than twice, whereas the human player NEVER fires more than twice. This has been my experience playing with the Germans in '39, against quite inferior forces, where we would think that it would be I that would be having 'more' op fire opportunities if anything. The op fire definitely isn't being applied the same for the AI, though it does often just op fire twice, it certainly isn't limited to that.

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- 10/12/2000 8:49:00 PM   
Fredde

 

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Yes Charles22, you are right and I agree with you there. I made a little experiment and the AI has unlimited shots. Funny i never noticed it before.

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"If infantry is the Queen of the battlefield, artillery is her backbone", Jukka L. Mäkelä about the Finnish victory at Ihantala.

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- 10/13/2000 3:20:00 AM   
BA Evans

 

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I have noticed that the Human player will also get more opfire if the enemy is very close to a friendly unit(s). Two units will from far away, then all of the close unit(s) will also get their oportunity fire. BA Evans

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- 10/13/2000 6:13:00 PM   
Charles22

 

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BA Evans: I don't think I've ever seen that, though that's what I would expect. In fact, I often find that the two op fire opportunities end up being taken by tanks in the distance, so that I might pass on the first tank op fring, hoping that the next unit is one relatively close, if in fact not the very one that's threatened. Now that may sound a little nutty, but the idea in many instances with my op fire, is to shot once only, and with the most efficient shot I can fire. So what happens is the first op fire from a distant tank is an undesireable waste to use on, say, advancing infantry, particularly if I'm saving shots for player turn fire on tanks, then only to have that MG nest that's very close not have an opportunity, because another distant tank took the 2nd op fire as well, so that, in the end, you either use the 2nd op fire shot or none at all. Of course what I describe is somewhat complicated by the fact that while on the defensive I commonly turn all infantry down to range one for the greater part of the battle, but then again, I don't usually curtail my MGs, at least nothing below range five. With the latter versions of SPWAW, I've fought VERY few battles where the enemy got within 5 hexes of my units, but even so, I would've expected to have at least seen one instance of more than two op fire opportunities. Frankly, the two shots have got so routine, that the shock would be quite immense if I saw a third. Even if something is slipping by me by the way I've yet experienced play, it's very obvious that the AI is far higher op fire chances. Normally, this sounds like an AI advantage, and there are some instances where that would be the case, but the fact that the more op fire you use, the less you'll have concentrated fire while in player turn, works against the AI. With the Ai seemingly jumping on every op fire it can, it also works to the AI's disadvantage concerning breakdowns. In my opinion it would seem as though the AI having more op fire and seemingly always using it, works, overall, to it's disadvantage, so that it's having this is more an annoyance than anything. The player can tire of moving one unit a hex and getting five op fire from the AI in return (although I stress that most of the time it only fires twice [maybe that's also because I'm usually fighting at more distant quarters]).

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