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Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 11:09:39 AM   
Odin


Posts: 1052
Joined: 1/3/2001
From: Germany, Wanne-Eickel
Status: offline 		Can someone tell me his ideas how to make recon on a base too far away from own bases to use normal recon flights?

I my game i want to take Kwajalein to secure my supply line between Pearl Harbour and Australia.

Kwajalein should be used as strongpoint, to simply isolate the japanese held islands south from it.

My Problem:

I don´t know for shure whats on this island, only there 6 suspected units...

Any Ideas?

Thanks!



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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 11:29:51 AM   
Ambassador

 

Posts: 1674
Joined: 1/11/2008
From: Brussels, Belgium
Status: offline 		Usually, it's the other way : you seize the surrounding islands to isolate Kwajalein.


EDIT: if you're down to using gamey tricks, you could use a sub transport TF to bring a few squads aground and initiate a "ground combat" - if one can call this a fight. You'll lose a few squads, but you'll know exactly which units are there.

< Message edited by Ambassador -- 2/5/2009 11:35:11 AM >

(in reply to Odin)
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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 11:35:10 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		How close is your closest base??

You should be able to have recon flights with LR-4EBs if within at least 11-12 hexes* (as an Allied player)... if you are not this close, you are probably going to be biting off more than you can chew.

EDIT:* - depending on the mod you are playing (if any).

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 11:49:34 AM   
Odin


Posts: 1052
Joined: 1/3/2001
From: Germany, Wanne-Eickel
Status: offline 		Thanks guys.

Closest base is Baker Island, but useless because to small, and to far away to.

My idea was to have a secured path trough the island for my convoys, with a minimum of time and materials involved.

With Kwajalein seized by me, and a number of aircraft on it, i can control the area south of it, and leave the other island untouched,
because the more important area is somewhere else (isolating Rabaul).

No mods in use.

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 12:04:06 PM   
RUPD3658


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Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline 		You can always run a CA or CL within float plane range and set the float plane to recon Kwaj.

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 12:11:38 PM   
Bogo Mil

 

Posts: 286
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline 		You can route your traffic between San Francisco and Brisbane via Palmyra-Canton Island, not via Pearl Harbor. It's the same number of hexes, passing the Marshalls in the south, Thus you can simply ingore these islands.

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 12:29:46 PM   
FOW

 

Posts: 499
Joined: 11/6/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		It may be too late for you now but do the following:

1. Read the intel reports screen/file every turn and make notes (you may get messages of xxx men at base A; unit X at base A, Unit X on ship Y headed for base A)

or

2. Use Bodhi's Utility (or similar) which will graphically show you intel reports for a base going back upto 99 days)

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 12:33:05 PM   
Odin


Posts: 1052
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From: Germany, Wanne-Eickel
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RUPD3658

You can always run a CA or CL within float plane range and set the float plane to recon Kwaj.



I had the same idea, but it is a good way to have this one punched to pieces by Bettys coming from this island

Hm..via Palmyra/Canton...possible..

But tell me the way YOU bring supplies/fuel to Australia and Salomons.

I remember in my former games i shipped the stuff from San Francisco to Pearl Habour with CS-Convoy, unload there, and other CS-Convoys picked up the stuff there and brought them to the area where they were needed.

And you?

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 12:45:17 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I send my supplies by the southern route:  SF - Palmyra/Canton/Suva - Brisbane/Sydney.

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 12:54:13 PM   
Odin


Posts: 1052
Joined: 1/3/2001
From: Germany, Wanne-Eickel
Status: offline 		Thanks again guys for your help!

@ USS America:

Do you unload/load on every harbour?

I mean, due the long distance, you have to refuel the convoys...


@FOW:

Thank you, got idea with the tool. I haven´t payed much attention to Intel.

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 12:58:49 PM   
Feltan


Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		"Recon of a base far out"

I guess I am showing my age. I thought recon of a base was merely groovy.

Regards,
Feltan

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Post #: 11
RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 1:01:33 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Odin

Thanks guys.

Closest base is Baker Island, but useless because to small, and to far away to.

My idea was to have a secured path trough the island for my convoys, with a minimum of time and materials involved.

With Kwajalein seized by me, and a number of aircraft on it, i can control the area south of it, and leave the other island untouched,
because the more important area is somewhere else (isolating Rabaul).

No mods in use.

Baker might be too small for heavy bombers , but you can run in an AVD and base a squadron of PB4Y Coronado's there. That should be nearly the same range. And when they are not reconing Kawj, then can screen your convoys.

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 12
RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 1:08:20 PM   
Bogo Mil

 

Posts: 286
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline 		You don't have to unload. Set the convoi homeport to the next step on the route, set "do not unload". If the convoi arrives there, refuel it, detach the ships which shall unload (because you need the fuel/supplies there), and send the rest to the next step.

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 1:08:57 PM   
Odin


Posts: 1052
Joined: 1/3/2001
From: Germany, Wanne-Eickel
Status: offline 		Hm ok, lets scrap this recon thing, i will load 2 Divisions + Tanks and take this island, unclear garrison or not:-)





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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 1:19:26 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Odin

Hm ok, lets scrap this recon thing, i will load 2 Divisions + Tanks and take this island, unclear garrison or not:-)






Then you will need major preporations. All the units need to train-up , so set them to prepare for Kwaj. To be 100% prepared takes obviously 100 days. That gives you plenty of time to soften the island. I assume that you do a pre-invasion bombardment? Then you bombarding units will get close enough to recon the island. Problem solved. If it's too tough, then all you've done is divert his attention with the bombardment. If it's a cake walk, then you have the info you need. But you really need to know what you are facing , otherwise you could be facing a disaster of epic proportion. And if it's fortified , garrisoned and mined (better include DMS's with the bombardment force) You could have a mega failure.

There is an old truism, "failure to plan ,is planning to fail". And the key to all planning is information. You have none. You need it. Before you throw away two+ divisions (or at very least render them temporairly useless) , a bunch of ships, supplies and time , consider , maybe it's better to risk the CL for her spotting plane.

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 1:20:09 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Odin

Hm ok, lets scrap this recon thing, i will load 2 Divisions + Tanks and take this island, unclear garrison or not:-)






Or you can do it that way.

Roll the dice!

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 16
RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 2:03:22 PM   
Bogo Mil

 

Posts: 286
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline 		I don't know which time you have in your game - early '43 perhaps? I think it is almost suicide to attack Kwajalein without taking one or two other Marshall Islands first - especially if you don't know anything about it's defenses.

Even if the base is only weakly defended, it won't be a walk in the park - the Japanese have many airbases in the area, KB might show up... All you have is your carriers. If they manage to put them out of action, they can sink all your troops, battleships and whatever you have in the area. You may take the base if it's weakly defended, but then YOU have to defend a base which is isolated and surrounded by many enemy bases.

Should you run into strong defenses, you will face an utter desaster. Damaged ships (from mines, CD guns, airstrikes, ...) have virtually no chance to be safed, your troops will be slaughtered, and the USA can't do any serious offensive action for at least half a year. Why taking such a risk? For a shortcut between PH and Cairns, which makes the route 1 week shorter? Thats NOT worth it.

You can take an island at the edge of the Marshalls (e.g. Maloelap) and provoke some war of attrition there, then take 1 or two more weakly defended atolls, then close Kwajalein with your bombers. In the meantime, just route your traffic around the area. You have enough transports to do so (and if not, it's an even worse plan to risk a lot of already scarce transport ships in such an adventure).

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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. (Benjamin Franklin)

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 4:28:33 PM   
Pistachio

 

Posts: 203
Joined: 12/15/2008
Status: offline 		Strongly second Bogo Mil's post. I want to take Kwaj, too, but in the past I learned the hard way that it's best to have at least one toehold first. This time (6/43) I already have the the Gilberts (well, except for Nauru, which in a freak of WitP nature ate the entire 2nd USMC, but that's a different story) plus I have Mili and Majuro, so as to have a place to perch my fighters and to provide emergency harbor(s) for damaged ships.

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Post #: 18
RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 4:39:40 PM   
Mynok


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Status: offline
If it is 43, two divs and a tank regiment are not going to be nearly enough to take Kwaj. I promise.

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 5:45:06 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		In my 1942 game it's now early 1945 and Kwajalein is a big POW camp for 22 Japanese LCU's.  I took every other atoll in the area and pounded the crap out of them from the air, sank all the ships in harbor (picked off a lot as they tried to escape too) and now they're just sitting there trying to figure out how to make coconut husks edible...

IOW, Kwajalein doesn't have anything you HAVE to have.  Go get the other bases nearby and build them up.  If you've got Baker Island I'd go after Tarawa and Makin next, and build them up, then go after Nauru.  Eventually you'll sever the AI's sea routes to Kwajalein and it will be isolated.

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 6:19:49 PM   
dereck


Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Odin

Thanks guys.

Closest base is Baker Island, but useless because to small, and to far away to.

My idea was to have a secured path trough the island for my convoys, with a minimum of time and materials involved.

With Kwajalein seized by me, and a number of aircraft on it, i can control the area south of it, and leave the other island untouched,
because the more important area is somewhere else (isolating Rabaul).

No mods in use.



Actually those were among the islands the Americans used to fly recon flights from using 4 engine Liberators. In real life it wasn't the "size" the determined what could fly from the island but what it was made from. If they were coral islands they could sustain the weight of heavy bombers. If they were sandy they usually couldn't.

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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 6:25:05 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
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From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		This is what I would do to recon an island base:
1. Send sub there, just to sit there for few turns.
2. Make CV raid there, few planes could be on recon (idealy floatplanes)
3. Obtain port1 base for Coronado, or AF2 base for your 4E bombers in their respective range.
4. Send suicidal-recon party if needed (just few squads from a sub)
5. Keep inteligence reports according to units last sighting. These are not that accurate and on time, but in long run they could tell you about major units.

PS: You can also use Bombardment run with slow ships or ships on cruise speed to use their float planes on recon. Just dont forget to provide them with fighter cover! This can be used with CV raid.

6. Make sure as not to reveal your target too early. With recon planes flying over one base each day for month your oponent will surely base at least a division there


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RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/5/2009 6:25:23 PM   
dereck


Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline 		In the first WITP game I played a few years ago (against the AI) I took Kwajelein and Eniwetok within two weeks of each other without taking any of the other Marshalls.

I had also taken Tarawa before attempting to attack the Marshalls so I had a supply base close. I just planned very carefully and used every fleet, light and escort carrier I had along with all my capital ships and plenty of divisions (at least a 3-1 troop advantage if possible).

It was Saipan that gave me problems - took me over twice as long as the historical invasion to secure that island.

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Post #: 23
RE: Recon of a base far out? - 2/6/2009 10:17:18 AM   
Odin


Posts: 1052
Joined: 1/3/2001
From: Germany, Wanne-Eickel
Status: offline 		Ok. Changed the plan.

Tarawa first, then Kwajalein.

It is more comfortable.

Thanks guys.

And until there i will route convoys south.

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