Reserve pilot managment question

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Reserve pilot managment question - 9/4/2010 6:18:30 PM

cantona2

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From: Gibraltar
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Im having a look through my reserve pilots and theres quite a few with 20-40 xp. Obviously its in my interest to have these greenhorns out of the pools and into the dedicated training squadrons. Can those squadrons which already have the max number of pilots receive any more via the request veteran button (ironic that a 23 xp pilot is a veteran)?

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Post #: 1

RE: Reserve pilot managment question - 9/4/2010 6:32:31 PM

Walloc

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
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Yes, but if u go above the number of allowed pilots +the 25% the AI will deactive pilots every turn. So the effect, training wise is not there. At times it even deactive more pilots than needed.
So lets say u have standart US F squadron with 25 planes u can have 33 pilots. If u put 36 in u will see 3 deactivated, but at times more. The effect is that in those cases are actually training less than optimum.

Hope it helps,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 9/4/2010 6:52:19 PM >

(in reply to cantona2)

Post #: 2

RE: Reserve pilot managment question - 9/4/2010 6:36:03 PM

cantona2

Posts: 3749
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From: Gibraltar
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Sure does Rasmus, thanks.

I am thinking of adding maybe 2 pilots of low xp to each squadron, that should in most cases keep the total < the 25%

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(in reply to Walloc)

Post #: 3

RE: Reserve pilot managment question - 9/4/2010 9:33:38 PM

Mistmatz

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Joined: 10/16/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Yes, but if u go above the number of allowed pilots +the 25% the AI will deactive pilots every turn. So the effect, training wise is not there. At times it even deactive more pilots than needed.
So lets say u have standart US F squadron with 25 planes u can have 33 pilots. If u put 36 in u will see 3 deactivated, but at times more. The effect is that in those cases are actually training less than optimum.

Hope it helps,

Rasmus

Are you saying the training is less then optimal when having 133% pilots in the squadron or when you go beyond (34 or more in your example)?

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(in reply to Walloc)

Post #: 4

RE: Reserve pilot managment question - 9/4/2010 9:49:36 PM

Walloc

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz
Are you saying the training is less then optimal when having 133% pilots in the squadron or when you go beyond (34 or more in your example)?

Only when going beyound 133% and only in the the cases where AI deactives more than is needed so active pilots go below 133%.

Example. U have 36 pilots in a 25 plane units with 133% = 33. In some cases i've seen AI deactive 4 pilots leaving 32 active.
Note this is far from all the time it happens. Usually happens the higher u go above the max in my experience. Hench only 32 pilots are availble for training = less than maximum, being 33.
Note also u can see deactived pilots with green numbers. One would assume they trained last turn. So u could put "unlimited" number of pilots into a units. They didnt. If u follow this over time u will see the green aka last turn change referes to the last turn it was active. Keeping the green when unactive. It doesnt actually rise when inactive in my experience.
In short dont go beyond the 133% for optimal training.

Hope its clearer,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 9/4/2010 9:53:35 PM >

(in reply to Mistmatz)

Post #: 5

RE: Reserve pilot managment question - 9/5/2010 12:11:09 AM

wdolson

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
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If you have a lot of pilots in a squadron and some are getting high fatigue, the game engine will put some of the high fatigue pilots in reserve to let them rest.

For a training squadron, you can load it up beyond the 133% and then when some pilots reach fully trained, you can pull them from the squadron and the extras will start training.

Any pilot that was in a squadron that got disbanded will end up in the veterans pool unless the squadron was set to withdraw all planes and pilots. It doesn't matter what experience level the pilots have when the unit gets disbanded, each pilot now exists as a separate entity, so he will go into the reserve (veteran) pool.

Bill

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(in reply to Walloc)

Post #: 6

RE: Reserve pilot managment question - 9/5/2010 12:25:59 AM

erstad

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Yes, but if u go above the number of allowed pilots +the 25% the AI will deactive pilots every turn. So the effect, training wise is not there. At times it even deactive more pilots than needed.
So lets say u have standart US F squadron with 25 planes u can have 33 pilots. If u put 36 in u will see 3 deactivated, but at times more. The effect is that in those cases are actually training less than optimum.

Hope it helps,

Rasmus

Are you saying the training is less then optimal when having 133% pilots in the squadron or when you go beyond (34 or more in your example)?

What he's saying is that the maximum number of active pilots in a squadron is 133% of the base number. If you try to put more in, the pilots above 133% are automatically moved to group reserve. However, often more pilots are moved to group reserve than are needed to bring the pilots into balance (it seems often it moves 2x what is needed).

For training, presumably we get the most bang for the bug if you have as many active pilots as possible. If you are below the 133(.333...)%, you don't have as many active pilots as you could, and you may wish to add some. If you are above 133%, some of your active pilots will be moved to group reserve and you will generally have less that 133% active. The way to maximize number of active pilots is to have the total pilots in the group at the integer at or below 133% of the base pilots, and make sure they are all active.

< Message edited by erstad -- 9/5/2010 6:41:40 AM >

(in reply to Mistmatz)

Post #: 7

RE: Reserve pilot managment question - 9/5/2010 12:28:59 AM

erstad

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
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quote:

For a training squadron, you can load it up beyond the 133% and then when some pilots reach fully trained, you can pull them from the squadron and the extras will start training.

Bill, if you're over 133% don't you run into some of the pilots moving into group reserve (not just those needed to get to 133%, others beyond that)? I don't believe I've ever seen a pilot in a group reserve gain skill.

Rasmus and I haven't compared notes, but what he describes is exactly what I believe I've consistently observed as well. I don't believe it's a fatigue-related move. I just sent off both my game turns but if I get one back today I can run a monitored test.

(in reply to wdolson)

Post #: 8

RE: Reserve pilot managment question - 9/5/2010 12:41:10 AM

Walloc

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

What he's saying is that the maximum number of active pilots in a squadron is 133% of the base number. If you try to put more in, the pilots above 133% are automatically moved to group reserve. However, often more pilots are moved to group reserve that are needed to bring the pilots into balance (it seems often it moves 2x what is needed).

For training, presumably we get the most bang for the bug if you have as many active pilots as possible. If you are below the 133(.333...)%, you don't have as many active pilots as you could, and you may wish to add some. If you are above 133%, some of your active pilots will be moved to group reserve and you will generally have less that 133% active. The way to maximize number of active pilots is to have the total pilots in the group at the integer at or below 133% of the base pilots, and make sure they are all active.

I obviously need to hire Erstad, yes he explains it better than me.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

(in reply to erstad)

Post #: 9

RE: Reserve pilot managment question - 9/5/2010 12:45:01 AM

Walloc

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

quote:

For a training squadron, you can load it up beyond the 133% and then when some pilots reach fully trained, you can pull them from the squadron and the extras will start training.

Bill, if you're over 133% don't you run into some of the pilots moving into group reserve (not just those needed to get to 133%, others beyond that)? I don't believe I've ever seen a pilot in a group reserve gain skill.

Rasmus and I haven't compared notes, but what he describes is exactly what I believe I've consistently observed as well. I don't believe it's a fatigue-related move. I just sent off both my game turns but if I get one back today I can run a monitored test.

Not only that but im my experience if ur above 133% those pilots in group reserve dont rest at leased not particular well. Meaning their fatigue doesnt lower normally, but falls by 1 per turn which is much lower than a pilot on "regular" rest.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

(in reply to erstad)

Post #: 10

RE: Reserve pilot managment question - 9/5/2010 2:59:07 AM

Sredni

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Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
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I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, or even if I'm just imagining things heh, but from what I've seen you shouldn't mix pilots of highly different experience together in training groups.

Like say you have a training group where most of the pilots are at around 50 experience. If you put some 25 experience pilots in the group it seems to negatively effect the training of all the higher experience pilots. The 50 experience pilots seem to stop gaining anything while the 25 experience pilots are the only ones to raise experience or skills.

I've always made it a policy to group like experience pilots together in training squadrons. I've got one fighter squadron I use to train fighter pilots with over 70 experience but less then the 73 air combat skill I want (I still have a lot of these a year after the war started), then I have several groups training pilots with experience in the 60's, but less then ideal skill levels. And then I have the rest of my trainee squadrons training pilots with experience in the 50's, of which I seem to have a never ending supply since front line fighter groups get a constant stream of undertrained 55xpish 50-60airskill pilots that I have to recycle back into general reserve.

To train up and get rid of the last of really low experience pilots (20-40's) I used new fighter groups that appeared with pilots of that skill level to start with. I filled them out using the few super low skilled pilots in my reserve and just left them as training squadrons until they'd trained their pilots up to an acceptable level.

Now I could be totally out there with my conclusions, I might be imagining things and giving myself extra work I don't need to preform heh. But this seems to be how it works from what I've seen.

And ditto on the max 133% pilots thing. If you go over 33 pilots in a 25 plane group the extra pilots all go into group reserve (plus some extra's a lot of the time) and don't gain any training.

< Message edited by Sredni -- 9/5/2010 3:00:09 AM >

(in reply to cantona2)

Post #: 11

RE: Reserve pilot managment question - 9/5/2010 11:54:32 AM

Walloc

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Sredni,

Thats what i have observed a well so in that sense u are right.
If u have a mix lower skilled pilots they tend to get "flight" time more than the more experienced.
That said it is also my experience that if u have alot of very low skill/xp and no middle/higher exp pilots, the over all rise in skillz is lower. I'll say its a feeling not some thing i can back up with numbers.

3rdly as i once saw some one state that he always had atleased half the planes of the max of the squadron in training units else he felt it was gamey.
Well in my experience it pays to fill the squadrons up with planes up it actually help on the training, especially in regards to Def skill rises. So having less just hurts u.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

(in reply to Sredni)

Post #: 12

RE: Reserve pilot managment question - 9/5/2010 12:30:09 PM

Sredni

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
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I also always include one 70 xp/70 skill pilot in each trainee group

, which seems to fulfill the purpose of sitting in the "My experience is too high in relation to everyone elses so I won't gain any skill!" slot. Groups with all 100% one experience level, like if you started a completely fresh batch of noob pilots with no veterans at all seem to always have 1 pilot who sits at the top of the list and rarely gains any skills but advances in experience with the rest, so you end up with a squadron of 50xp/70skill pilots after a couple month, all except for the one poor guy who sat at the front of the list for those 2 months and is 50xp/50skill.

edit: But now that I think about it... I dunno if more experienced pilots in a trainee group would be of benefit or not. Like say having 5 veteran pilots and 28 trainees vs 1 veteran and 32 trainees. Would the group of 28 trainees train faster then the group of 32 trainees? I suspect the difference would be small enough that someone would have to run a bunch of 3 month tests and average out the results to see for sure heh. I wonder if anyone has done any experimenting in regards to this

And agreed on the # of planes thing. I've had a bunch of squadrons that withdrew after a year which I used for training but only came with 2 planes (or whatever) out of a full squadron. But I figured they're withdrawing soon anyways so I didn't bother filling them, and the pilots in those groups with very few planes seemed to train way less then pilots in groups with a full complement of aircraft. So now I always max out a trainee squadrons airplane inventory, even if the group will disband after a year or two. I just make sure to use old planes I won't be using for frontline duties anyways.

< Message edited by Sredni -- 9/5/2010 12:44:29 PM >

(in reply to Walloc)

Post #: 13