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Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 10:35:50 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		I'm running a set of running tests on the effects of artillery without bias.

The set up:

Historical level (since it should be the most balanced). Stock Scenario 1, no mods. Head to head so I have complete control over all units involved.

Focusing on Hong Kong since it is the quickest place to set up a siege. No aircraft are allowed to attack Hong Kong. No naval units allowed to attack. No deliberate or shock attacks. This is isolating artillery only.

Japanese (attacking force):

6 Artillery units, 92 tubes total, 89 tubes undamaged. Fatigue is 3 or less, no disruption. All other units set to defend. Fully supplied.

British (Defending force):

Standard units, Level 3 Forts, Fatigue 3, Disruption 0. Units set to defend and reserve modes. 17751 supplies available at Hong Kong.

I'll post each turn as it plays out.

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 3/9/2010 10:41:01 AM >

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'When in doubt...attack!'
Post #: 1
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 11:01:03 AM   
bklooste

 

Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline 		maybe run a fight in a clear hex also,.,

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Underdog Fanboy

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Post #: 2
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 11:02:20 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Turn 1:

The first thing you will note is FoW is clouding the combat report. Showing 153 tubes bombarding, actual number is 89. Only the Artillery units were set to bombard.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1994 troops, 153 guns, 133 vehicles, Assault Value = 632

Defending force 6556 troops, 132 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 225

Japanese ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
23 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
38th Division
66th Infantry Regiment
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
5th RF Gun Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
Rifles of Canada Battalion
1st Middlesex Battalion
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion
Hong Kong Fortress
Kowloon Brigade
102nd RN Base Force


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Japanese Units:

Artillery Units each gained 1-2 fatigue during the attack.
Infantry Units set to combat yet not attacking gained 5 fatigue and 2 disruption each.
No Tubes Lost, despite the combat report.

Infantry Units now set to reserve to observe the results.

British Units:

Fatigue decreased.
No disruption.
No discernible damage to units.
Experience increase of 1 on all units.

Hmmm....

Next turn upcoming.




_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 3
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 11:22:57 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Turn 2:

Again Combat report shows 153 tubes, actual number is 89 attacking.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2027 troops, 153 guns, 133 vehicles, Assault Value = 636

Defending force 6532 troops, 132 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 219

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Assaulting units:
66th Infantry Regiment
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
38th Division
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
5th RF Gun Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
2nd RF Gun Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
Rifles of Canada Battalion
1st Middlesex Battalion
Hong Kong Fortress
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion
Kowloon Brigade
102nd RN Base Force


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Japanese units:

Reserve units drop to 1-2 Fatigue, no disruption.
Artillery units gain no fatigue.
No losses despite combat report.
All units taking replacements, tube total now up to 90.

British Units:

Hong Kong Supply now 17537.
Support units have minor damage, it appears that about 15 support units are simply damaged, none destroyed.
Disruption level 0 on all units.
Fatigue level 4 on 1 unit, 2 or less on all others.
1 point experience gain on 4 of 6 units.

I'm starting to see a pattern here...

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 4
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 11:43:32 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Turn 3:

Again, showing 153 tubes, when only 90 are attacking. Counting the tubes in the Infantry units there are a total of 190 tubes in the hex. This is purely a FoW issue.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2045 troops, 153 guns, 132 vehicles, Assault Value = 636

Defending force 6555 troops, 132 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 222

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Allied ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
66th Infantry Regiment
38th Division
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
5th RF Gun Battalion
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
1st Middlesex Battalion
Rifles of Canada Battalion
Hong Kong Fortress
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion
Kowloon Brigade
102nd RN Base Force


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Japanese units:

No disruption, no fatigue gained.
6 support units damaged.

British Units:

17471 Supplies in Hong Kong
No Disruption or Fatigue gains.
1 Combat and 1 support squad damaged.
5 of 6 units gain 1 point of experience.


_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 5
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 11:48:02 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Try testing with FoW - OFF....

Then measure Supply consumption by the defender for 7 consecutive turns with no attacks or bombardments on them.

Then run the same seven turns except bombard with Artillery and compare the results.

< Message edited by treespider -- 3/9/2010 11:49:47 AM >

_____________________________

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"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 6
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 11:59:25 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Try testing with FoW - OFF....

Then measure Supply consumption by the defender for 7 consecutive turns with no attacks or bombardments on them.

Then run the same seven turns except bombard with Artillery and compare the results.


That will have to wait until after I get some sleep. =)

As it is, since I'm playing both sides, I'm able to see exactly what damage is being taken by each side. That should also mean that the results are not being skewed by the AI advantage (IE Head to Head should give similar results to PBEM).

I will run a test with FOW off though.

_____________________________

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'When in doubt...attack!'

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Post #: 7
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 12:08:10 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Turn 4: Last for a while until I get some sleep.

Again 90 tubes bombarding.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2050 troops, 153 guns, 132 vehicles, Assault Value = 637

Defending force 6550 troops, 132 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 222

Japanese ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
15 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Assaulting units:
66th Infantry Regiment
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
38th Division
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
2nd RF Gun Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
5th RF Gun Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd Mortar Battalion
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
Rifles of Canada Battalion
Hong Kong Fortress
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion
1st Middlesex Battalion
Kowloon Brigade
102nd RN Base Force


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Japanese Units:

3 Tubes damaged
1 Support damaged
No fatigue gained, no disruption gained.

British Units:

17705 Supplies in Hong Kong. Hong Kong has actually gained supply.
1 unit takes partial replacements, about 50% of damaged units return to active.
2 Engineer units damaged
1 unit gains 4 fatigue
No disruption gained
5 of 6 units gain 1 point of experience.

And that is all the turns for a bit. I will come back and redo this exact same test with FoW turned off. Also with measuring supply use with and without bombard as treespider suggests. Also, do not take my word on all this, any of you can run this test as I am running it. While I do not have enough turns done yet to say anything definitively, I am definitely seeing a pattern here. One thing is certain, any unit under 50 experience will gain experience from any type of combat, even on the receiving end of a bombardment.



_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 8
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 12:19:56 PM   
WLockard


Posts: 183
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline 		About supply, you will need to record the supply amount in each LCU also. That is the only was you can see what the total supply usage is.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 9
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 12:23:01 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Yeah, its going to be a lot of writing but probably needs to be done. At least with Hong Kong I'm not having to deal with a huge stack, and it is a reasonable number of artillery units involved. And with the reasonable number of tubes, the results thus far are nothing to write home about.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

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Post #: 10
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 12:39:47 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Yeah, its going to be a lot of writing but probably needs to be done. At least with Hong Kong I'm not having to deal with a huge stack, and it is a reasonable number of artillery units involved. And with the reasonable number of tubes, the results thus far are nothing to write home about.



Much too early to resort to such HYPERBOLE---

Conduct the tests...
Report the supply consumption of the defenders with no bombardments for a week...
Then report the supply consumption of the defenders after being bombarded for a week.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 11
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 6:01:03 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		OK, 7 days of no combat, enemy in the hex:

Looking only at Defender supply usage.

1st Middlesex Battalion (R)........54......80......80......80......54......82......83
Rifles of Canada Battalion (R)....139.....139.....139.....142.....102.....142.....144
Hong Kong Fortress (C)...........316.....254.....254.....256.....179.....256.....256
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion (R).102.....144.....144.....144.....102.....144.....144
Kowloon Brigade (C)..............336.....486.....486.....494.....343.....496.....496
102nd RN Base Force (C)...........113.....146.....146.....147.....106.....150.....152
Hong Kong.......................17895...17643...17580...17505...17846...17392...17320
Totals..........................18955...18892...18829...18768...18732...18662...18595

It appears on average the units at Hong Kong are burning through 60-70 supplies per turn, even with no combat.

No I will start over the same 7 day period using units on bombard, namely the 90 tubes listed above. I have saved from the first day of this week so that I can as closely mimic this 7 day period as possible with the only variable being bombard on or off.

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 3/9/2010 6:02:05 PM >

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

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Post #: 12
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 6:15:51 PM   
Kwik E Mart


Posts: 2447
Joined: 7/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

OK, 7 days of no combat, enemy in the hex:

Looking only at Defender supply usage.

1st Middlesex Battalion (R)........54......80......80......80......54......82......83
Rifles of Canada Battalion (R)....139.....139.....139.....142.....102.....142.....144
Hong Kong Fortress (C)...........316.....254.....254.....256.....179.....256.....256
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion (R).102.....144.....144.....144.....102.....144.....144
Kowloon Brigade (C)..............336.....486.....486.....494.....343.....496.....496
102nd RN Base Force (C)...........113.....146.....146.....147.....106.....150.....152
Hong Kong.......................17895...17643...17580...17505...17846...17392...17320
Totals..........................18955...18892...18829...18768...18732...18662...18595

It appears on average the units at Hong Kong are burning through 60-70 supplies per turn, even with no combat.

No I will start over the same 7 day period using units on bombard, namely the 90 tubes listed above. I have saved from the first day of this week so that I can as closely mimic this 7 day period as possible with the only variable being bombard on or off.


Shark7, good job so far...quick quesiton...is Hong Kong base expanding (port, airfield and/or forts)?


_____________________________

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(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 13
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 6:29:48 PM   
DeriKuk


Posts: 359
Joined: 8/2/2005
From: Alberta
Status: offline 		You should also run an artillery test in the malaria zone. It seems that the malaria shells have a devastating effect . . . on the units firing them.

(in reply to Kwik E Mart)
Post #: 14
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 6:54:25 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		FoW OFF, Turn 1:

Still showing 153 tubes when only 89 are actively set to bombard. There must be a portion of the Infantry Divisions tubes that come into play for CB fire? Infantry Units are set to combat, will set to reserve next turn. Also Infantry Units took ~5 fatigue this turn while set to combat.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1994 troops, 153 guns, 133 vehicles, Assault Value = 632

Defending force 6556 troops, 132 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 225

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
66th Infantry Regiment
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
38th Division
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
5th RF Gun Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
1st Middlesex Battalion........80 supply 0 disruption 2 Fatigue, No Losses
Rifles of Canada Battalion........157 supply, 2 Fatigue, 0 distruption, 2 XP gain, No Losses
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion........144 supply, 2 fatigue, 0 disruption, 0 xp gain, 0 losses
Hong Kong Fortress...............300 supply, 3 fatigue, 0 disruption, 0 xp gain, 1 support damaged
Kowloon Brigade..................485 supply, 2 fatigue, 0 dirsuption, 2 xp gain, 0 Losses
102nd RN Base Force..............146 supply, 5 Fatigue, 0 disruption, 1 xp gain, 1 naval support Damaged


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hong Kong Supply Level 17624 / No Combat 17895 = 271 difference.
Total Supplies in Hex 18936 / no Combat 18995 = 59 Difference.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 15
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 6:54:51 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

OK, 7 days of no combat, enemy in the hex:

Looking only at Defender supply usage.

1st Middlesex Battalion (R)........54......80......80......80......54......82......83
Rifles of Canada Battalion (R)....139.....139.....139.....142.....102.....142.....144
Hong Kong Fortress (C)...........316.....254.....254.....256.....179.....256.....256
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion (R).102.....144.....144.....144.....102.....144.....144
Kowloon Brigade (C)..............336.....486.....486.....494.....343.....496.....496
102nd RN Base Force (C)...........113.....146.....146.....147.....106.....150.....152
Hong Kong.......................17895...17643...17580...17505...17846...17392...17320
Totals..........................18955...18892...18829...18768...18732...18662...18595

It appears on average the units at Hong Kong are burning through 60-70 supplies per turn, even with no combat.

No I will start over the same 7 day period using units on bombard, namely the 90 tubes listed above. I have saved from the first day of this week so that I can as closely mimic this 7 day period as possible with the only variable being bombard on or off.


Shark7, good job so far...quick quesiton...is Hong Kong base expanding (port, airfield and/or forts)?



All expansion is turned off.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Kwik E Mart)
Post #: 16
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 7:19:11 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Turn 2:

Of Note: All Attacking Artillery units gained 3-5 Fatigue this turn. Still showing 153 tubes bombarding, actual count is 90. There must be some mechanism bringing in additional tubes or the FoW is still affecting even when turned off. Infantry Units have both returned to 3 fatigue down from 10 while on reserve. No losses taken this turn for attacker.

You will also note that reported losses and actual losses are not matching.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2018 troops, 153 guns, 133 vehicles, Assault Value = 634

Defending force 6570 troops, 132 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 227

Japanese ground losses:
20 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (0 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)



Assaulting units:
38th Division
66th Infantry Regiment
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
5th RF Gun Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
Hong Kong Fortress..........300 Supply, 61 Morale, 3 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 XP gain, 0 Losses
Rifles of Canada Battalion........157 Supplies, 61 Morale, 3 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 XP Gain, 1 Combat, 1 Support Damaged
1st Middlesex Battalion.........59 Supplies, 50 Morale, 2 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 XP Gain, 0 Losses
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion.........102 Supplies, 60 Morale, 1 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 XP Gain, 0 Losses
Kowloon Brigade..............341 supplies, 30 Morale, 2 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 XP Gain, 0 Losses
102nd RN Base Force..........103 Supplies, 32 Morale, 2 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 2 XP Gain, 0 Losses


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hong Kong Supplies 17836 vs No Combat 17643 = +193
Total Supplies 18898 vs No Combat 18892 = +6
Total Supplies 18898 vs Previous Turn 18936 = -38

Supplies gained compared to no combat, actual usage was only 38 supplies.


_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 17
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 7:27:48 PM   
WLockard


Posts: 183
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline 		One problem is that if there are disabled elements in an LCU, they may or may not repair. If they do, they use supply. the repair is based on a die roll(s).

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 18
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 7:30:50 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WLockard

One problem is that if there are disabled elements in an LCU, they may or may not repair. If they do, they use supply. the repair is based on a die roll(s).


As a General rule, the units are repairing while under fire. The reserve units are repairing much faster than the combat units, I can confirm that.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to WLockard)
Post #: 19
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 7:44:55 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Turn 3:

Bad for the attacker. While no fatigue was gained this turn, losses were taken. 3 Support, 4 Tubes, 1 Combat squads were damaged.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1996 troops, 153 guns, 131 vehicles, Assault Value = 635

Defending force 6590 troops, 132 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 229

Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Assaulting units:
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
66th Infantry Regiment
38th Division
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
5th RF Gun Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd Mortar Battalion
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion........93 Supplies, 60 Morale, 2 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 XP gain, 0 Losses (fully repaired), *Reserve unit
1st Middlesex Battalion.............59 Supplies, 50 Morale, 2 FAtigue, 0 Disruption, 1 XP Gain, 0 Losses (partially repaired, *Reserve Unit
Hong Kong Fortress................316 Supplies, 61 Morale, 4 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 xp gain, 0 losses, (Fully repaired), *Combat unit
Rifles of Canada Battalion.........123 Supplies, 61 Morale, 4 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 XP gain, 2 Combat Damaged, No Repair, *Combat Unit
Kowloon Brigade....................342 Supplies, 30 Morale, 2 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 2 XP gain, 0 Losses, Partial repair, *Reserve Unit
102nd RN Base Force................102 Supplies, 32 Morale, 4 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 1 XP gain, 2 support damaged, no repair, *Combat Unit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hong Kong Supply 17819 vs No Cobmat 17580 = +239
Total Supplies 18854 vs No Combat 18829 = +25
Supplies T3 18854 vs Supplies T2 18898 = -44

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 20
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 7:47:43 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		One thing to keep in mind is that some ops losses are no doubt taking place on the attackers part. However, the defending units seem to be able to repair as fast as attackers can damage them, still too early to render a final judgement though.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 21
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 8:10:16 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Turn 4:

Another bad one for the attacker. 2 Combat, 4 Support units lost. No vehicles have been lost despite the combat reports. 1 Unit gains 1 point of disruption, all artillery units gained 1 fatigue.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2025 troops, 153 guns, 131 vehicles, Assault Value = 635

Defending force 6593 troops, 132 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 229

Japanese ground losses:
15 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (0 destroyed, 4 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
66th Infantry Regiment
38th Division
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
5th RF Gun Battalion
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
Rifles of Canada Battalion..........115 Supplies, 61 Morale, 4 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 XP gain, no repair, 2 Combat damaged
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion.......94 Supplies, 60 Morale, 2 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 1 XP Gain, no repair, 0 losses
Hong Kong Fortress.................285 Supplies, 61 Morale, 4 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 xp gain, no repair, 0 losses
1st Middlesex Battalion............59 Supplies, 50 Morale, 2 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 1 XP gain, no repair, 0 losses
Kowloon Brigade...................312 Supplies, 30 Morale, 2 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 xp gain, no repair, 1 combat 1 support damaged
102nd RN Base Force..............103 Supplies, Morale 32, 4 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 1 XP gain, partial repair, 1 support damaged


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hong Kong Supplies 17843 vs No Combat 17505 = +339
Total Supplies 18811 vs No Combat 18768 = +43
Supplies T4 18811 vs Supplies T3 18854 = -43

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 3/9/2010 8:39:07 PM >

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Post #: 22
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 8:20:47 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Well on first blush it looks like we has a bug ...EDIT: Maybe not T3 -> T4 360 consumed

...would like to see the rest of the seven bombarding days..

Stuck the numbers in an Excel sheet

Non bombarding Average Defender Supply consumption = 60, High =70, Low = 36, Total = 360

Bombarding Defender Supply Consumption so far 38 & 44 & 360 &....

< Message edited by treespider -- 3/9/2010 8:23:53 PM >

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Post #: 23
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 8:22:08 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


Hong Kong Supplies 17843 vs No Combat 17505 = +339
Total Supplies 18494 vs No Combat 18768 = -274
Supplies T4 18494 vs Supplies T3 18854 = -40



Bad Math - Difference is 360...

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"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

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Post #: 24
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 8:24:57 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


Hong Kong Supplies 17843 vs No Combat 17505 = +339
Total Supplies 18494 vs No Combat 18768 = -274
Supplies T4 18494 vs Supplies T3 18854 = -40



Bad Math - Difference is 360...


Guess which subject gave me the most trouble in school 15 years ago.

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Post #: 25
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 8:25:54 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


Hong Kong Supplies 17843 vs No Combat 17505 = +339
Total Supplies 18494 vs No Combat 18768 = -274
Supplies T4 18494 vs Supplies T3 18854 = -40



Bad Math - Difference is 360...


Guess which subject gave me the most trouble in school 15 years ago.


Well lets see T5, T6 and T7...


_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 26
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 8:38:27 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Turn 5:

Attacker again takes the worst of it, 2 Artillery units gain 3 disruption, 5 of 6 artillery units gain 2-3 fatigue each, 1 Tube, 4 vehicles, 2 support lost.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2012 troops, 153 guns, 131 vehicles, Assault Value = 636

Defending force 6611 troops, 132 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 228

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 7 (4 destroyed, 3 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Assaulting units:
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
66th Infantry Regiment
38th Division
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd RF Gun Battalion
5th RF Gun Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
1st Middlesex Battalion...........55 supplies, 50 Morale, 2 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 1 XP Gain, no repair, no losses
Rifles of Canada Battalion.........144 supplies, 61 Morale, 4 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 1 xp gain, no repair, no losses
Hong Kong Fortress.................302 Supplies, 61 Morale, 3 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 xp gain, no repair, no losses
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion......94 Supplies, 60 MOrale, 2 FAtigue, 0 Disruption, 1 xp gain, no repair, no losses
Kowloon Brigade....................314 Supplies, 30 Morale, 2 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 xp gain, no repair, no losses
102nd RN Base Force................104 Supplies, 32 Morale, 3 Fatigue, 0 Disruption, 0 XP gain, no repair, no losses


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hong Kong Supplies 17748 vs NO Combat 17846 = -98
Total Supplies 18761 vs No Combat 18732 = +29
Supplies T5 18761 vs Supplies T4 18811 = -50

I made a bad error on turn 4 supply total.

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Post #: 27
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 8:40:26 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


Hong Kong Supplies 17843 vs No Combat 17505 = +339
Total Supplies 18494 vs No Combat 18768 = -274
Supplies T4 18494 vs Supplies T3 18854 = -40



Bad Math - Difference is 360...


Guess which subject gave me the most trouble in school 15 years ago.


Well lets see T5, T6 and T7...



treespider, I doubled checked my math on Turn 4, I had misadded by leaving out about 300 supply. The actual numbers were 18811 total supply and a difference of -43 supplies from turn 3.

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'When in doubt...attack!'

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Post #: 28
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 8:45:30 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		NP - I think you've identified a bug...

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 29
RE: Artillery Testing - 3/9/2010 8:49:04 PM   
chesmart


Posts: 908
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Malta
Status: offline 		Yes agree probably a bug and thanks shark for testing.

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 30
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