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Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank.

 
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Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 6:14:24 AM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank.

Company, distributer, and testers...let's be frank.

1. How would you summarize the AI?
2. How does the AI compare to other similiar games?
3. What are some noteworthy praises and criticisms of the AI capabilities, tactics, and strategies of which you know of or have witnessed?
4. How well is the AI at colony management?
5. How well is the AI at using all technological advances?
6. And...being frank...what improvements to the AI are planned for the very near future?
7. Does the AI use cheats or bonuses?

I know that you will or must only mostly praise the AI, which I'll be happy to hear, but surely you can be frank and answer both sides of these questions.

Let us compare these answers here now to our gameplay experiences in several months.

Oh, and...Surely, my name is not Frank.
Don't call me Shirly.
:)
-----

How well an AI is at the release of a game often will make or break the game in its success.
I believe that the AI in a game should be the prioriy. If there are outstanding issues with a games AI then the company should fix them immediately. AI should be much better than just adequate.
-To improve game AI, any design that is adpated by players and is very beneficial should be used by opponent AI's also.

< Message edited by Wade1000 -- 4/9/2010 11:53:01 PM >

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Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.
Post #: 1
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 6:46:05 AM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

Let us compare these answers here now to our gameplay experiences in several months.


Oh yeah, when you put it that way I'm REALLY willing to spill the beans. I mean, no pressure at all there!

I had a slight conversation about this on the Wargamer.com, that I won't repeat here.

I'm no AI expert, but it seems to work pretty well for me, at least, I have fun!


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"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to Wade1000)
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RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 6:50:39 AM   
Deto

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 2/15/2010
Status: offline 		1. How would you summarize the AI?
- I would summarize it with two letters: A and I
2. How does the AI compare to other similiar games?
- Like other games, the AI's function is to provide more (less) challenge and realism to player
3. What are some noteworthy praises and criticisms of the AI capabilities, tactics, and strategies of which you know of or have witnessed?
- Sometimes AI can surprise you (sometimes positively, sometimes negatively). I've seen AI use fleets and build colonies.
4. How well is the AI at colony management?
- They manage
5. How well is the AI at using all technological advances?
- They're good when they use all tecnological advances
6. And...being frank...what improvements to the AI are planned for the very near future?
- With all ethical constraints removed...

(in reply to Wade1000)
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RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 7:06:22 AM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		LOL! All ethical restraints removed...

Distant Worlds: Now with a SHODAN in every box!

SoM


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"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

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Post #: 4
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 7:42:30 AM   
Sarissofoi


Posts: 329
Joined: 2/1/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

LOL! All ethical restraints removed...

Distant Worlds: Now with a SHODAN in every box!

SoM



Uh Ah.
Ok This is good time to glass New Zeland.
Before its to late.
For a greter good!

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RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 8:56:33 AM   
Greyhunterlp

 

Posts: 371
Joined: 12/20/2006
From: The UK (wot wot ole bean)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarissofoi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

LOL! All ethical restraints removed...

Distant Worlds: Now with a SHODAN in every box!

SoM



Uh Ah.
Ok This is good time to glass New Zeland.
Before its to late.
For a greter good!


Well, to be fair, we've known the place is overrun with orcs and all sorts of other things for a few years now, so its better to be safe than sorry.

(in reply to Sarissofoi)
Post #: 6
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 10:54:26 AM   
Gertjan

 

Posts: 698
Joined: 12/9/2009
Status: offline 		How good the AI is depends on the resources the game producer has. It seems to me this is a small scale company and so if attention has to be devoted to several aspects of the game it could lead to a less developed AI. However, I'm hopeful that in relative terms considerable effort has been devoted to the AI aspect of the game and that other aspects such as graphics have been given less attention. Who knows if the game sells well, the developer could keep improving the game's AI on players feedback.

(in reply to Greyhunterlp)
Post #: 7
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 1:28:17 PM   
VarekRaith


Posts: 138
Joined: 2/21/2010
From: Manassas, Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan

How good the AI is depends on the resources the game producer has. It seems to me this is a small scale company and so if attention has to be devoted to several aspects of the game it could lead to a less developed AI. However, I'm hopeful that in relative terms considerable effort has been devoted to the AI aspect of the game and that other aspects such as graphics have been given less attention. Who knows if the game sells well, the developer could keep improving the game's AI on players feedback.

You know, I think the inverse of this is true. I've played so many games with large budgets and dev teams that had just...pathetic AI.
:shrugs:

(in reply to Gertjan)
Post #: 8
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 3:07:34 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline 		When you declare war on a race, you better had taken defensive measures for your planets beforehand. They come at you thorough and hard. They also unite against you at times so keeping a good name really matters if you want to be liked by some. When I have declared war on a race with no good reason to, other races get mad and join in the fray. The AI keeps a good watch on your manners.

The AI is no sissy. It's smart. The races have distinct personalities too which really adds to the likability of this game.

< Message edited by LarryP -- 3/2/2010 3:08:56 PM >

(in reply to Wade1000)
Post #: 9
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 4:14:58 PM   
Gertjan

 

Posts: 698
Joined: 12/9/2009
Status: offline 		This sounds very good!

(in reply to LarryP)
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RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 5:43:28 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan

How good the AI is depends on the resources the game producer has. It seems to me this is a small scale company and so if attention has to be devoted to several aspects of the game it could lead to a less developed AI. However, I'm hopeful that in relative terms considerable effort has been devoted to the AI aspect of the game and that other aspects such as graphics have been given less attention. Who knows if the game sells well, the developer could keep improving the game's AI on players feedback.


I think Armada 2526 A.I was pretty good considering it was only done by one guy,so I am not sure about that theory.

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RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 7:30:19 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline 		Here is a good example of the AI personality:





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Wade1000)
Post #: 12
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 7:36:58 PM   
Tycow


Posts: 284
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

That is awesome. It's little touches like that that make games brilliant!

Cheers Larry

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Post #: 13
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 7:48:58 PM   
Sarissofoi


Posts: 329
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline 		Wow.Nice one.
I think this game will give much more roleplay than I think.
Great. Cool. Awesome. I hope this is:).


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Post #: 14
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 8:00:59 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

Here is a good example of the AI personality:






Blackbeard and his pals joining the RoyalNavy would not have gone down well with the public.Where is the Kill scum option.

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RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 8:24:03 PM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan

How good the AI is depends on the resources the game producer has. It seems to me this is a small scale company and so if attention has to be devoted to several aspects of the game it could lead to a less developed AI. However, I'm hopeful that in relative terms considerable effort has been devoted to the AI aspect of the game and that other aspects such as graphics have been given less attention. Who knows if the game sells well, the developer could keep improving the game's AI on players feedback.


How well an AI is at the release of a game often will make or break the game in its success.

I believe that the AI in a game should be the prioriy. If there are outstanding issues with a games AI then the company should be fixed immediately, even to the extent of delaying a release. AI should be much better than just adequate.

_____________________________

Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

(in reply to Gertjan)
Post #: 16
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 8:29:06 PM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

When you declare war on a race, you better had taken defensive measures for your planets beforehand. They come at you thorough and hard. They also unite against you at times so keeping a good name really matters if you want to be liked by some. When I have declared war on a race with no good reason to, other races get mad and join in the fray. The AI keeps a good watch on your manners.

The AI is no sissy. It's smart. The races have distinct personalities too which really adds to the likability of this game.


Well, that sounds good. Thanks.

So then, if you want a certain role, it would be advisable to maintain high reputation/manners. If you decide to expand by declaring war then choose an opponent with low reputation/manners so that he will have difficulty aquiring allies and trades..

_____________________________

Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 17
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/2/2010 10:23:27 PM   
hadberz


Posts: 1629
Joined: 5/11/2000
From: Moncks Corner, SC
Status: offline 		As LarryP said if your not ready for war the AI will kick the crap out of you

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Post #: 18
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/3/2010 12:01:23 AM   
Duckfang

 

Posts: 71
Joined: 2/23/2010
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Blackbeard and his pals joining the RoyalNavy would not have gone down well with the public.


Sure it did, we called them Privateers.

Sir Francis Drake was a notorious pirate before he was a war hero, if I recall correctly. He still is regarded as a no-good pirate in some countries.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 19
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/3/2010 2:44:13 AM   
martok


Posts: 837
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

When you declare war on a race, you better had taken defensive measures for your planets beforehand. They come at you thorough and hard. They also unite against you at times so keeping a good name really matters if you want to be liked by some. When I have declared war on a race with no good reason to, other races get mad and join in the fray. The AI keeps a good watch on your manners.

The AI is no sissy. It's smart. The races have distinct personalities too which really adds to the likability of this game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hadberz

As LarryP said if your not ready for war the AI will kick the crap out of you

Music to my ears! I love strategy games where I can get "pwned" by the computer if I'm not careful.

Also, I admit I got a good chuckle out of the "pirate faction joins your empire" message. As Tycow said, it's little touches like this that really give a game character, and can make the difference between a merely good game and a great game. I'm looking forward to Distant Worlds more than ever now!


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RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/3/2010 3:21:50 AM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline 		There are a lot of little touches in DW. The other factions communicate quite often, whether to ask for a negotiation which are many, or to declare war. It is a very busy game with messages from the pirates, other races, your own citizens ticked off at high taxes, your advisers, and general information. Of course, you can filter which messages you want to view or not, but regardless, they all go through the message display at the top of the screen so you can always work with them.

That makes for a personable game, more so than any other I have played. Getting a game to have personality is hard, but this game has one. If I did not like this game, I would simply not post about it. However, the more I play it, the more I am impressed and I have played it since June of 2009. And I am still learning more every time I play.

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RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/3/2010 3:45:13 AM   
Duckfang

 

Posts: 71
Joined: 2/23/2010
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		Can any of the testers (or Elliot ) confirm whether the AI cheats or not?

I know that often in strategy games the AI is allowed to cheat a little with resources, or research and what have you to give it that little edge over a player. Does the AI cheat in DW?

If so, does it cheat on all difficulty settings, just the highest ones, or what?

One of the things I quite liked about GalCiv2 was that the AI (as far as I know) on normal difficulty settings was subject to all the same restrictions as the player.

(in reply to LarryP)
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RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/3/2010 3:46:30 AM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Music to my ears! I love strategy games where I can get "pwned" by the computer if I'm not careful.

Agreed!

quote:

Also, I admit I got a good chuckle out of the "pirate faction joins your empire" message. As Tycow said, it's little touches like this that really give a game character, and can make the difference between a merely good game and a great game. I'm looking forward to Distant Worlds more than ever now!


quote:

There are a lot of little touches in DW. The other factions communicate quite often, whether to ask for a negotiation which are many, or to declare war. It is a very busy game with messages from the pirates, other races, your own citizens ticked off at high taxes, your advisers, and general information. Of course, you can filter which messages you want to view or not, but regardless, they all go through the message display at the top of the screen so you can always work with them.

That makes for a personable game, more so than any other I have played. Getting a game to have personality is hard, but this game has one. If I did not like this game, I would simply not post about it. However, the more I play it, the more I am impressed and I have played it since June of 2009. And I am still learning more every time I play.

Sweet! I love games that have personalized touches to them like this in diplomacy, exploration, research, etcetera.
Although, it's more a feature then part of the AI.

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Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 23
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/3/2010 4:50:16 AM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Nice choice Larry P! There are lots of neat little things like this, you guys will be excited when you get to experience them!

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"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

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Post #: 24
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/3/2010 5:24:40 AM   
Sarissofoi


Posts: 329
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Duckfang

Can any of the testers (or Elliot ) confirm whether the AI cheats or not?

I know that often in strategy games the AI is allowed to cheat a little with resources, or research and what have you to give it that little edge over a player. Does the AI cheat in DW?

If so, does it cheat on all difficulty settings, just the highest ones, or what?

One of the things I quite liked about GalCiv2 was that the AI (as far as I know) on normal difficulty settings was subject to all the same restrictions as the player.

This is good question.
Is AI cheat? And how? And when?

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RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/3/2010 7:27:22 AM   
elliotg


Posts: 3597
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Duckfang
Can any of the testers (or Elliot ) confirm whether the AI cheats or not?

I know that often in strategy games the AI is allowed to cheat a little with resources, or research and what have you to give it that little edge over a player. Does the AI cheat in DW?

If so, does it cheat on all difficulty settings, just the highest ones, or what?

One of the things I quite liked about GalCiv2 was that the AI (as far as I know) on normal difficulty settings was subject to all the same restrictions as the player.

The AI for other empires does not cheat. They play under the same restrictions/limitations that you do with no extra bonuses.

Pirates are a bit different, they do some cheating - but only a little They're pirates after all

(in reply to Duckfang)
Post #: 26
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/3/2010 7:33:31 AM   
Sarissofoi


Posts: 329
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline 		Haha. Great info about pitrates:).
BTW Is on harder difficulty levels AI have tendencies to gang on player?
Or at all levels their main interest is their interest?

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RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/3/2010 8:51:51 AM   
Gertjan

 

Posts: 698
Joined: 12/9/2009
Status: offline 		You have already played the game since June 2009 I wish I had this opportunity.

I really liked this pirate example. Q: Do parts of other races also move over to your empire if they wish to defect?

Q: Is there also a united nations type of institution in which various empires vote on resolutions?

(in reply to Sarissofoi)
Post #: 28
RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/3/2010 8:59:40 AM   
Sarissofoi


Posts: 329
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline 		Becoze game lack diplomatic victory I dont think so that there will be Un or senat or something like that.

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RE: Distant Worlds: The AI; let's be frank. - 3/3/2010 3:42:33 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

Although, it's more a feature then part of the AI.


Doesn't AI stand for Artificial Intelligence?

I've watched a lot of threads argue about what constitutes AI. I have hundreds of programming books, and from one of them called "AI Game Programming Wisdom" at this link AI Book, on page xii he says:

"First, it seems that game AI should be anything that a game AI programmer will have to program in order to make the game characters appear intelligent."

"There is no doubt in the consumer's mind as to what constitutes game AI. The characters must appear as if they know what they are doing, whether it's walking around an obstacle, participating in simple chitchat, or deciding when to retreat."

I have gone by the rule that it's safe to say that anything that is not human input, is collectively AI.



< Message edited by LarryP -- 3/3/2010 6:17:16 PM >

(in reply to Wade1000)
Post #: 30
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