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IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions?

 
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IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 8/31/2010 12:05:02 AM   
dukewacoan

 

Posts: 150
Joined: 6/7/2010
Status: offline 		Which ships are recommended as best optimum type for conversion to AS, AD, AG, AGP, AV, ARD, AKE?

I've read Husimi for AS.

Thoughts on whether to convert DDs to APDs?

Current decisions -
DD Minekaze, Kamikaze and Mutsuki - convert to APD or upgrade DD?
Post #: 1
RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 8/31/2010 1:59:34 AM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		People have different views about APDs. Some find them useless and some think they are gold.Personaly I would not convert anything with long lances or the Momis because they are so slow.
I say convert a few and see if they fit to your playstyle/tactics.

As rule of thumb for AKE/etc conversions: Use the ones who can convert with the greatest cargo hold.

< Message edited by Gräfin Zeppelin -- 8/31/2010 2:01:20 AM >

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 8/31/2010 2:07:02 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Duke,

You start with enough of all of them, except AKE and APD, so my rec is NOT to convert AS, AD, AG. APD is a matter of preference. The are handy in fast transport with capacity of 250? for cargo and speed of 33. Since you only start with 1 AKE in Sc 1, you need to create about 6. That would be one for most major hubs and two for reserve / operations. Tracker is most helpful here in your choices. Lima Cargo class can make 4900 capacity AKE. If you refer to 20.1.2.2, ship rearmaments table, this will allow you to rearm all BB's (and all other surface guns on smaller ships) save Yamato and Musashi (which take level 9 port or a lvl 7 with 188 naval support. Cannot use AKE in stock sc1 to replenish 46CM guns). Very important to plan where you will replenish Y and M in advance.

In general, level 7 port is the magic number that alleviates the need for AKE, AS, AD, AG.

Regarding ARD, you cannot convert a ship to or from this. It is a floating drydock. You either have them or you dont. IIRC, there are very few AR conversions. I personally dont use them. AGP is an allied only PT boat tender (rearm and repair). I have never looked into AV conversions for Empire, so I cant help you there. I am not aware if there are any to be had. In any event, I have never needed them.

Hope this helps.



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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 8/31/2010 2:15:45 AM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		The Kyushus convert into AVs and are very handy ships imo.
Gozans can be converted into AGPs and they are absolutely not an allied only thing.Japan has very few motor boats at the start but at the end of 43 they start to arrive en masse.

< Message edited by Gräfin Zeppelin -- 8/31/2010 2:17:17 AM >

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 8/31/2010 2:32:45 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Grafin

This is exactly why I am in the forum - to learn. Empire AGP's! I feel a bit silly that I missed that. MGB is a last resort ASW weapon (and Kamikaze ship) that I have always been able to replenish in port. The MTB is not an allied PT equivient, but it certainly has its uses later in the war, especially in confined seas like the Philippines. AGP will make it easyier to replenish for sure. Based on numbers you get 3-4 would be my proposed target, but not until they start coming in en-mass in Jan 44.

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 8/31/2010 2:41:58 AM   
dukewacoan

 

Posts: 150
Joined: 6/7/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks.

I was planning some minor ports out from the hubs getting combination of AR. AS. AG. for outlying help.

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 8/31/2010 3:01:47 AM   
dukewacoan

 

Posts: 150
Joined: 6/7/2010
Status: offline 		Looking at Tracker, I count the following on hand Jan'42

AR - 2
AV - 8 (+1 in pipeline)
AS - 5
AGP - 4
AD - 4
AG - 0 (+4 in pipeline)

So for what I am trying to do, i.e. have some tenders out at places like Kwajalein, Rabaul, etc I'm going to need to do some conversions.

Is there any real benefit to having a full set of all of the above at placed like Truk after it reaches size 7?  I mean will repairs occur faster with those type ships, or once you hit Level 7 are you maxed out?

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 8/31/2010 3:06:06 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		There is a benefit having tenders at a 7+ port.
If I read my supply consumption correctly, ships go to the tender before the port, so the base supply will not be consumed if the tender provides. Also, you can move tenders into damaged large ports to substitute provision.

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 8/31/2010 3:39:02 AM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Well tenders.... you dont need them often but if you need them you need them usualy now.Personaly I like to have a full "set" idling around in certain areas.AKEs are the without doubt most usefull ones but one can do funky stuff with an AD also.
AVs are precious ships for me.Japan has alot of float planes and they safe avitation support.
I would also personaly convert 1-2 ARs. Japan needs only a few of them but they take forever to convert so if you lose one its a good thing to have a spare.
Like topeverest said, you need more AKEs and they are the most important of these conversions.
Yes the AGP thing. 1 is enough at the begining for your 6 motor boats some more later.
AGs do the best job at tiny ports and if I am not wrong they can repair PBs wich is nothing to shun at.

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 8/31/2010 3:46:14 AM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Here is my take:

APDs:
Convert: Wakatake, Minekaze
Don't: Mutsuki; keep anything with a Long Lance
Maybe: Kamikazes; you can put this decision off until 2/43, while the Minekazes you have to commit in 2/42 to either upgrade the DD or convert to APD
Also, don't convert the MOMIs, too slow

AKE:
I think you need about 10+; they are very useful, and sometimes you need more than one to replenish ships quicker

Other than AKEs, I don't convert TENDERS. I might do AVs later, but probably not.

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 8/31/2010 7:27:29 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		as long as fast transport and surface combat TFs end up short of their target hex and stay there to be sunk by enemy bombers next day (got better with the latest patch) I guess I wouldn´t convert a lot to APDs. If you could be sure they sprint in and out as they are supposed to then I would convert more. Just ask my opponent how often he suffered from non working fast transport or SC missions that ended up short.

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 8/31/2010 10:20:33 AM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		APDs:
Convert: Minekaze
Later: Kamikazes; have as DD until 2/43
Don't: Mutsuki; keep anything with a Long Lance



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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 8/31/2010 2:09:26 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

as long as fast transport and surface combat TFs end up short of their target hex and stay there to be sunk by enemy bombers next day (got better with the latest patch) I guess I wouldn´t convert a lot to APDs. If you could be sure they sprint in and out as they are supposed to then I would convert more. Just ask my opponent how often he suffered from non working fast transport or SC missions that ended up short.


Sure, but the APDs are useful even if you don't use them as Fast Transport. You basically trade Torpedos and a Main Gun for more cargo capacity. Since the WAKATAKE and MINEKAZE make lousy combat ships anyway, you may as well use them as escorts. As APDs, they can haul a few troops or cargo as well as escorting.

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 9/2/2010 4:05:57 AM   
Amoral

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/28/2010
Status: offline 		Know Your Japanese Merchant Marine



Google Docs Link

N.B. There are several ships that can convert to (for eg.) an AG, I list the Daigen as the model to chose because it has the smallest tonnage. That holds for all suggested conversions.

Using the Ansyu class as patrol boats is not a given. I like them because they can make 14kts and they carry 2 x 12cm guns (effect 45), making them about 6 times as effective in surface combat or bombardment as a To'Su or Kiso patrol boat, which carry a single 8cm gun (effect 13). They also carry mines, which allows all the To'su AMc to be converted to PB or ACM. I convert all my To'su to ACM, and my Kiso and Ansyu to PB.


< Message edited by Amoral -- 9/2/2010 4:16:44 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 9/2/2010 5:47:31 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Kyushu converts as Graf stated above.  I prefer Husimi, but Kyushu work also.

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 9/2/2010 12:46:41 PM   
Marcus_Antonius

 

Posts: 79
Joined: 8/20/2007
Status: offline 		To my mind APD's are a critical Japanese need. Japanese lack the specialty landing ships of the allies and seem to lose a lot of transports invading.

The APD's are not going to support large landings, but they are great for landing small forces that can later be reinforced when a port is secured. After you lose the amphibious bonus, APDs are even more critical.

The Historical Japanese did not do large landings as well as they did small ops. The game reinforces this limitation.

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Post #: 16
RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 9/2/2010 12:58:45 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

as long as fast transport and surface combat TFs end up short of their target hex and stay there to be sunk by enemy bombers next day (got better with the latest patch) I guess I wouldn´t convert a lot to APDs. If you could be sure they sprint in and out as they are supposed to then I would convert more. Just ask my opponent how often he suffered from non working fast transport or SC missions that ended up short.


Sure, but the APDs are useful even if you don't use them as Fast Transport. You basically trade Torpedos and a Main Gun for more cargo capacity. Since the WAKATAKE and MINEKAZE make lousy combat ships anyway, you may as well use them as escorts. As APDs, they can haul a few troops or cargo as well as escorting.



hmm, other than fast transport missions I couldn´t find much use for APDs, at least nothing else than what a DD couldn´t do better. But that´s of course a matter of faste.

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 9/2/2010 4:58:59 PM   
PaxMondo


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Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy




hmm, other than fast transport missions I couldn´t find much use for APDs, at least nothing else than what a DD couldn´t do better. But that´s of course a matter of faste.


I'm with you on this ... and for me at least, fast transport missions are only required when I screwed up tactically and did not get enough supplies to a position in advance .... and then I have to ask why I'm not withdrawing ... after 6/43 you cannot stand against the allies without a lot of supply and even then ... when they bring the hammer, you really strain to last long. C&G AAR has many perfect examples of this.

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 9/2/2010 5:45:28 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Well 6 APDS can instant drop a naval guard at a level 0 port without naval support for example.It realy depends on the situation and playstle if they are useful or not.The keep them as destroyers argument is also valid.

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RE: IJN - Suggestions for Best Conversions? - 9/2/2010 5:54:16 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		APDs are better escort craft, because they have a few more AA guns, and can help carry whatever cargo that TF is hauling.

In the end it doesn't make that much of a difference, as the Minekaze and Wakatakes are terrible surface combattants anyway, and would get chewed-up by modern USN DDs if you attempted to use them that way.

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