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unable to upgrade planes - 11/1/2009 11:26:48 AM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline 		Hi.
Playing allies in a PBEM against John_Smid, Stock 1.806.
Date is 3 of march 1942;
PDU ON;

Kittyhawk I is starting to build and to gather in the pool.
Of course i want to upgrade my wirraways sqadrons for the australians.
but the Kittyhawk I doesn't appear in the list of avalaible path of upgrade; the Kittyhawk III appear (along with Hurricanes, Boomerang, Spitfire Vb, etc).

This is not a problem about supplies or HQ or else, because it only concern the list of upgrade path.

I did unistall the whole game. I saved my game file in a separate folder.
I then install the game anew. Install the patch in correct order ( 1.804 first, then 1.806). Then copy the saved file of my game in the "SAVE" folder. And tried again, but nothing had changed.
I hope this is enough information so people could understand my problem. (damn, just thought of screenshot, i will add one in a few minutes).
How can this be repaired ?
(because i would not like to wait for Boomerang or Kittyhawk III to upgrade; and i would not like much more that this kind of problem of upgrade could come for others planes).

Any idea/help would be welcome.
Thanks.





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< Message edited by gladiatt -- 11/1/2009 5:02:13 PM >

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Post #: 1
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 11/1/2009 7:29:21 PM   
FOW

 

Posts: 499
Joined: 11/6/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		I can't recall the exact details of upgrade paths but you could possibly try this:

Make a copy of your game file
Select the squadron and upgrade to Hurricanes
check the selection options again and see if there are additional upgrades available, ie Kitty I's

It's just a thought.....

(in reply to gladiatt)
Post #: 2
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 11/1/2009 7:44:07 PM   
khyberbill


Posts: 1941
Joined: 9/11/2007
From: new milford, ct
Status: offline 		My 21 squadron is not due to arrive until sometime in 1943 (perhaps I withdrew it?), but it is arriving as a dive bomber. I checked a couple of my other Wirraway squadrons and none have Kittyhawk I in the upgrade path. I suspect that the path may be hardcoded because in this game, the Wirraway is considered a level bomber.

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"Its a dog eat dog world Sammy and I am wearing Milkbone underwear" -Norm.

(in reply to gladiatt)
Post #: 3
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 11/2/2009 1:26:32 PM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FOW

I can't recall the exact details of upgrade paths but you could possibly try this:

Make a copy of your game file
Select the squadron and upgrade to Hurricanes
check the selection options again and see if there are additional upgrades available, ie Kitty I's

It's just a thought.....


Hi FOW;
tried your idea, but it failed....The paths are the same;
By the way, it seem the Beaufighter VIF don't appear either; and i pretty sure remenber a time when these upgrade paths were shown on the screen of the unit...

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Post #: 4
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 11/2/2009 1:28:23 PM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

My 21 squadron is not due to arrive until sometime in 1943 (perhaps I withdrew it?), but it is arriving as a dive bomber. I checked a couple of my other Wirraway squadrons and none have Kittyhawk I in the upgrade path. I suspect that the path may be hardcoded because in this game, the Wirraway is considered a level bomber.


Hi Khyberbill.
Do you confuse with AE ? from what i had read on the forum, in AE, the wirraway is considered a level bomber.
In old WITP it is a fighter, wich can be seen by the upgrade offered: these are all fighters.
Anyway, thanks for the thought.

ANY IDEA others folks ?

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Post #: 5
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 11/2/2009 4:56:58 PM   
khyberbill


Posts: 1941
Joined: 9/11/2007
From: new milford, ct
Status: offline 		yes, sorry, i didnt realize that i had switched forums...

_____________________________

"Its a dog eat dog world Sammy and I am wearing Milkbone underwear" -Norm.

(in reply to gladiatt)
Post #: 6
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 11/3/2009 5:38:23 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		IIRC, in classic WITP, even with PDU on, it was intended that the Wirraway not upgradeable as early as March 1942 to a Kittyhawk I.  This would be consistent with the historical record and why you are not also given the option to upgrade directly to a Spitfire V or the American planes.

For the RAAF, in December 1941 Wirraways were training planes built in Australia by the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation ("CAC").  "Trained" fighter units were equipped with recognised fighter types, Commonwealth earmarked Warhawks and Buffaloes in the Middle East and Singapore respectively.  Those fighter units had first call on newer fighter models - if you check your other RAAF fighter equipped units, IIRC you should see them having an option to upgrade to Kittyhawk I and Spitfire V.

Historically the Wirraway was replaced on the CAC production line by the Boomerang.  That is why your Wirraway squadrons are scheduled to upgrade to Boomerangs.  To complain why you can't upgrade to a Kittyhawk I is logically speaking equivalent to complaining why you can't upgrade them to a Wildcat F4F, a model which you probably have several hundred warehoused in your aircraft pools.

Alfred 

(in reply to khyberbill)
Post #: 7
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 11/4/2009 8:41:21 AM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

IIRC, in classic WITP, even with PDU on, it was intended that the Wirraway not upgradeable as early as March 1942 to a Kittyhawk I.  This would be consistent with the historical record and why you are not also given the option to upgrade directly to a Spitfire V or the American planes.

For the RAAF, in December 1941 Wirraways were training planes built in Australia by the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation ("CAC").  "Trained" fighter units were equipped with recognised fighter types, Commonwealth earmarked Warhawks and Buffaloes in the Middle East and Singapore respectively.  Those fighter units had first call on newer fighter models - if you check your other RAAF fighter equipped units, IIRC you should see them having an option to upgrade to Kittyhawk I and Spitfire V.

Historically the Wirraway was replaced on the CAC production line by the Boomerang.  That is why your Wirraway squadrons are scheduled to upgrade to Boomerangs.  To complain why you can't upgrade to a Kittyhawk I is logically speaking equivalent to complaining why you can't upgrade them to a Wildcat F4F, a model which you probably have several hundred warehoused in your aircraft pools.

Alfred 



Hi Alfred.
I am not sure i understand your post. And i must admit today i am really tired mentaly.
But anyway:
-there is not only one squadron without the path for upgrading to Kitty I; all the RAAF fighters squadron have the same problem. Of course i don't pretend the Bombers or Patrol squadron could do this
- my game is now in March. There are a few Kitty I in the pool (start building in march), not enough to feel a squadron, but for others planes it never hide the upgrade path
-i never awaited for British air units to have a upgrade path for american pplanes, and vice versa.
- i just find there seem to be a problem with this upgrade path
=> THIS IS why i posted here, to try to understand an repair this problem if it could.

-i didn't think my post was understood as a complain leading to childish whinning.
I think anyone engage in a PBEM would try to receive his assets and new planes when the game "could" allow it. If the game was intended not to do this, i won't say anything, but i am pretty sure this could be done before a kind of bug. I've loaded an old file (turn 28) and it seem the upgrade path is the same as the one i showed on the screen, but this seem not normal to me. That's all.
Please excuse me if i had some pathetic complain in here, i was trying to understand/repair/clear problems. And i hope also i didn't offended anyone.

Thanks

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(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 8
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 11/4/2009 11:02:05 AM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		With PDU on a player should be able to upgrade planes out of their normally called for path, even if it's limited by types.  Who's to say that B-17s after May 1945 shouldn't be able to upgrade to B-29s?  Think about those 8th bombers sitting around with no European targets getting shifted to the Pac War.  Those squadrons need the range of B-24s and B-29s.

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Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to gladiatt)
Post #: 9
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 11/5/2009 4:56:59 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		gladiatt,

(1)  IIRC, in scenario 15, you have 2 RAAF fighter units equipped with Buffaloes stationed at Singapore on 7 December 1941.  Are these units still equipped with Buffaloes and do they have an upgrade path which allows conversion to Kittyhawk I?

(2)  What you are describing is not a bug but a WAD.  My previous post was intended to give the historical situation to place into context why the designers had made such choices.

(3)  Notwithstanding the comments made in post #9, PDU does not allow a carte blanche (within type) to choose from all Allied models (within type).  Look at Soviet fighter units, you are not premitted to choose from western models (except those which were supplied to the Soviet Union under Lend Lease).  British fighter units are limited to their Lend Lease models - eg Thunderbolt model on list, P-47 not on upgrade list etc.

(4)  If you look carefully at all your Wirraway units, IIRC, you will note that a few allow you to upgrade to non fighter types eg Vulture, A-20.  This again is due to historical reasons and again demonstrates that PDU is designed to be operated along quasi historical lines.

Your last post makes it clear that you did not intend a "childish whining" and therefore I apologise if mine was read as implying you were so engaged.

Alfred

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 10
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 11/5/2009 7:03:59 AM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline 		Alfred,
thanks for your post, wich give me much explanation !

1) One of the RAAF Squadron starting in Singapore are now elsewhere in India, and have indeed a path leading to Kitty I; when i checked my australians squadrons, i forget this one (i was believing evrything in India was british/english).

2) and 3) I understood that the upgrade path was intended by the dev to give a historical line. I was thinking that once you had a path in a type of planes (Fighter, Bombers, Patrol), you could have much choice.
I should have pay attention : some Fighter Group on the US West Coast can't upgrade to every model of plane.

4) You are right, some Wirraway squadron have a path leading to bomber. Once more i didn't paid attention to this point.

And of course, i accept your apologize and make myself much apologize, because i had probably not understood all your meaning.
And as said a big guy dress in black:
"Excuse accepted, captain Needa "

Thanks once more, i now have a better knowledge of this game.

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Post #: 11
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 8/20/2010 6:08:09 PM   
traskott


Posts: 1546
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline 		Sorry for the necro-post, but I'm at the same situation.

PBEM at War in the Pacific vanilla. Latest patch.
Great Campaign. PDU ON
3/1944

I have P-51Bs plus B-17Gs plus B-26B on pool, but no one group nor sqn show them at the upgrade screen. How can I fix it ?

Thank you !!!

(in reply to gladiatt)
Post #: 12
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 8/21/2010 8:16:53 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: traskott

Sorry for the necro-post, but I'm at the same situation.

PBEM at War in the Pacific vanilla. Latest patch.
Great Campaign. PDU ON
3/1944

I have P-51Bs plus B-17Gs plus B-26B on pool, but no one group nor sqn show them at the upgrade screen. How can I fix it ?

Thank you !!!

First, let me say: i no longer play Vanilla, so i am no longer familiar with the upgrade paths.

There are glitches in Vanilla (i know, hard to believe), and, iirc, i think there are no squadrons that take P-51b's... however, i might be wrong... the same MIGHT be true for B-17g's (i don't know).

In order to use the planes, you might have to DOWNGRADE squadrons into something that can later upgrade to the planes in question. For instance, you might be able to downgrade to P-40e's from some other aircraft type, and then find a path to the P-51b's... similarly for the bombers...

However, IF YOU HAVE UPGRADED ALL SQUADRONS of a particular aircraft type, you can no longer downgrade to them under normal circumstances... there are some peculiar times that an older aircraft will come into the game automatically if you are out of new aircraft.

So, if you have (for instance) upgraded all your 4EB to B-24s and no longer have any B-17e squadrons around, you might be out of luck trying to get the B-17g's. But, i'd try upgrading some B-25's or another 2-engined bomber to B-17e then to B-17g to see if that worked.

(in reply to traskott)
Post #: 13
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 8/21/2010 8:41:17 PM   
traskott


Posts: 1546
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline 		I have groups with B-25s or B-17Ds, and doesn't work. Plus I have groups or parts ( /A, /B, / C) of almost every type ( except P-26 and P-35 ) to be able to do this.. And..doesn't work...I'll continue trying. Thank for the effort and the info !!

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Post #: 14
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 8/21/2010 10:51:28 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: traskott

I have groups with B-25s or B-17Ds, and doesn't work. Plus I have groups or parts ( /A, /B, / C) of almost every type ( except P-26 and P-35 ) to be able to do this.. And..doesn't work...I'll continue trying. Thank for the effort and the info !!


Did you try to upgrade the B-17Ds to Es, and then to Gs?

(in reply to traskott)
Post #: 15
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 8/22/2010 12:30:06 AM   
traskott


Posts: 1546
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline 		Sorry, I was wrong. I have upgraded to B-17E. All my Flying Fortress are B-17E

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 16
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 8/22/2010 5:22:05 PM   
Mobeer


Posts: 662
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		P51B: I have seen previous comments in these forums about their being no squadrons able to convert to this.

B17D: I have tried and failed to get these available. Perhaps some special unit needs converting first, as with the LB30 bomber?

B26B: Initially I could not convert to these, with no B26B units on the map. Converting an A26B squadron to various intermediates (B25J, B18, etc) did not make the B26B available. However converting an original B18 Bolo squadron to B26B did then allow other A26B and B25J squadrons to convert to B26B.

(in reply to traskott)
Post #: 17
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 8/22/2010 5:27:43 PM   
traskott


Posts: 1546
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline 		I assume when u said B17D u meaning B-17G ? 

(in reply to Mobeer)
Post #: 18
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 8/22/2010 5:31:58 PM   
Mobeer


Posts: 662
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		Yes, I meant B17G

From a forum search, posts suggest the B17G is not used, though these weren't official posts as such:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=797725

(in reply to traskott)
Post #: 19
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 8/22/2010 5:49:20 PM   
traskott


Posts: 1546
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline 		Aaaaaps, ok, thank you, This should explain it...

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Post #: 20
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 8/22/2010 6:27:17 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobeer

Yes, I meant B17G

From a forum search, posts suggest the B17G is not used, though these weren't official posts as such:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=797725

i think it is the same for P-51Bs... iirc, it was a mistake in the original scenario setup... apparently the same for the B-17Gs... however, i am glad to see you got the B-26Bs back.

EDIT: Oops - that was someone else, not Trascott... but he might try a similar technique (i.e. - if he still has B-18s around.)

Otherwise, the only way to get them at this point is to run out of the more advanced models of B-256, and then a new unit might get assigned the older B-26Bs.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 8/22/2010 6:30:43 PM >

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Post #: 21
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 8/22/2010 6:42:54 PM   
traskott


Posts: 1546
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline 		Ok, to clarify: I must run out of some type of model, of which I must receive another Group as reinforcement. With the pool down to Cero, it won't appear with the original model but another more anticuated. Isn't it ?

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 22
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 8/23/2010 4:50:12 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: traskott

Ok, to clarify: I must run out of some type of model, of which I must receive another Group as reinforcement. With the pool down to Cero, it won't appear with the original model but another more anticuated. Isn't it ?

Well, maybe... if it happens you have enough in the pool that are MORE advanced, then you likely will get the more advanced plane...

For example: if you are about to get a squadron of P40Bs, but don't have enough in your pool, but you have (say) 40 x P40Es in the pool, then you might end up with the squadron arriving with P40Es... but if you didn't have enough of either P40Bs or P40Es to make up a squadron in the pool, then you might end up with P36s or something.

(in reply to traskott)
Post #: 23
RE: unable to upgrade planes - 8/23/2010 8:06:46 PM   
traskott


Posts: 1546
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline 		Jurl...Considering my pool of fighters is overall pretty well supplied, I should kiss for good bye the other fighters. Ok, ok...

Thank you

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 24
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