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Race Modifiers Questions - 12/22/2010 6:36:19 PM   
Shark7


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Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		I'd like to make a race that is very stupid, but also incredibly tough to beat in ground combat

1. What modifiers effect ground troop strength?
2. What levels do they need to be at to increase troop strength?

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RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/22/2010 8:17:47 PM   
Igard


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From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Shark7, do you have a copy of the customization guide? It's covered in that. - ftp://ftp.matrixgames.com/pub/DistantWorlds/DistantWorlds-Customization_Guide.zip

I've found that an aggression of 120 and above gives pretty strong troops, so it depends how strong you want them to be. Of course aggression also controls behavior towards other empires and the number of ships they will build.




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RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/22/2010 8:57:55 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

Shark7, do you have a copy of the customization guide? It's covered in that. - ftp://ftp.matrixgames.com/pub/DistantWorlds/DistantWorlds-Customization_Guide.zip

I've found that an aggression of 120 and above gives pretty strong troops, so it depends how strong you want them to be. Of course aggression also controls behavior towards other empires and the number of ships they will build.




Yes, I have the customization guide. However I must not be understanding how everything works together.

With the following stats:

INT: 50
AGR: 150
CAU: 50
FRI: 50
LOY: 50

I ended up with a troop strength of 7500...less than half of most of the other races. So I'm wondering if I can get it up higher without having to take INT up. Perhaps a high caution?

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 12/22/2010 8:58:45 PM >

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RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/22/2010 9:12:33 PM   
tjhkkr


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Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline 		Okay some kind soul gave me these parameters... maybe if you increase the intelligence to 80 or 85, it would make it hard for them to achieve space flight, but edge up the troop rating.
 
-If you want the AI to be competative combat wise you need an intelligence of 110+ (otherwise their ship designs are lacking)
-IF you want the race to be able to form pirates, then agression must be 115+.
-If you prefer to colonize rather than invade independent colonies, then friendliness must be higher than agression.
-If intelligence is less than 75 (IIRC), which makes them 'Extremely Stupid', the species will NEVER be able to achieve space flight.

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RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/22/2010 9:13:14 PM   
tjhkkr


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Status: offline 		Oy, why not up the loyalty too.

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Post #: 5
RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/22/2010 9:15:43 PM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 2428
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline 		Speaking of modifying races, I am in the process right now of converting my mod over.
The numbers run together after a while,  but the new parameters they gave us are really cool. 

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Post #: 6
RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/22/2010 10:17:42 PM   
Shark7


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Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		These are supposed to be Big, Stupid Space Ogres, but I might have to increase the intelligence a little to get them tough enough to fight. Apparantly at 50 INT, they aren't even smart enough to bash you over the head with a dinosaur bone.

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RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/22/2010 10:41:32 PM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		Doh, there was a sticky on the front page which has been unstickied recently that explained what all the stats do, it was very helpful for modders, even though it wasn't actually intended for us but as an explanation as to the differences between the existing races.  I think it was called something like Introduction to the DW races.

If I recall correctly Aggression and Intelligence lead to stronger troops.  So, a very highly intelligent and very aggressive race would have great troops, also they would have decent ship designs too, as aggression and intelligence I believe affect the ship designs making them more combat efficient.

If you think about it, it makes sense.  In the middle ages, big dumb brutes may have had an advantage on the battlefield, but in the modern age very well trained and drilled troops with high quality equipment and a well organized command structure with intelligent strategic and tactical planning is more important.

You can always give your brutes a troop bonus and war weariness bonus aswell as high aggression, then keep the intelligence down a bit, that would make them pretty good from an RP perspective.  Great warriors, but perhaps lacking in tactical skill on the ground and prone to disorganization


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RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/22/2010 11:50:36 PM   
Shark7


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Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Doh, there was a sticky on the front page which has been unstickied recently that explained what all the stats do, it was very helpful for modders, even though it wasn't actually intended for us but as an explanation as to the differences between the existing races.  I think it was called something like Introduction to the DW races.

If I recall correctly Aggression and Intelligence lead to stronger troops.  So, a very highly intelligent and very aggressive race would have great troops, also they would have decent ship designs too, as aggression and intelligence I believe affect the ship designs making them more combat efficient.

If you think about it, it makes sense.  In the middle ages, big dumb brutes may have had an advantage on the battlefield, but in the modern age very well trained and drilled troops with high quality equipment and a well organized command structure with intelligent strategic and tactical planning is more important.

You can always give your brutes a troop bonus and war weariness bonus aswell as high aggression, then keep the intelligence down a bit, that would make them pretty good from an RP perspective.  Great warriors, but perhaps lacking in tactical skill on the ground and prone to disorganization



I'll bump up the INT to at least 75, move troop maintainence to 75-80% discount maybe. Their war weariness is already at -95%...yes, they love to fight.

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RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/23/2010 12:54:32 AM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Apologies, Shark7, I never realised intelligence had an effect on troop strength, it's certainly not something I've ever incorporated into my mods. I wonder if this was a new feature in a patch.

I'm not sure if I like this because it means my Klingon troops are no longer as powerful as they should be (because they aren't a race of brain-boxes). I'll have to go through my mods now and tweak some settings, which I don't like having to do.

I think I'll make a new suggestion on the modders wishlist.

EDIT: Just realised there's already a suggestion for that on the wishlist called, 'toughness'. It's pretty near the top as well.

< Message edited by Igard -- 12/23/2010 1:01:25 AM >

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RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/23/2010 1:09:22 AM   
WoodMan


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From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		I wouldn't put any race in Star Trek with a intelligence below Moderately Intelligent anyway Igard, maybe even Quite Intelligent   Btw, I'm not entirely sure about this, it might be worth hunting down the thread, I think it was called an Introduction to the Race of DW.

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RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/23/2010 1:25:18 AM   
Igard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

I wouldn't put any race in Star Trek with a intelligence below Moderately Intelligent anyway Igard, maybe even Quite Intelligent   Btw, I'm not entirely sure about this, it might be worth hunting down the thread, I think it was called an Introduction to the Race of DW.



I've just been testing it out now. I can confirm that you're correct. It's not as bad as I thought though (Klingons are still pretty strong). I'd still like to be able to mod troop strength seperately. It's like one of those RPG's when you're creating your character and when you move one slider, another that you've just fine tuned moves as well! Just let me change one thing at a time please.

I've just made a little note on the modders wishlist about different aliens having unique characteristics. Troop strength being modified by aggression and intelligence might make sense from a human perspective, but not when we're dealing with aliens with their own traits and innate abilities.

I don't have any Star Trek races below 70, some of them are pretty stupid, like the Chalnoth. I also create my mods based on what races are strongest, so there's not really a balance for the smaller races to become stronger than, say, the Klingons.

< Message edited by Igard -- 12/23/2010 1:28:01 AM >

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Post #: 12
RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/23/2010 5:59:38 AM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 2428
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline 		I wouldn't put any race in Star Trek with a intelligence below Moderately Intelligent
I have to agree here.

These are supposed to be Big, Stupid Space Ogres, but I might have to increase the intelligence a little to get them tough enough to fight. Apparantly at 50 INT, they aren't even smart enough to bash you over the head with a dinosaur bone.
I laughed really hard on that one... very good.
Sounds like Gamorrian Guards in SW' they probably would make the stupid list...

You know there is an advantage to being so unintelligent... you are willing to charge those star trek guys in red shirts because you are too stupid to know that phasers can kill you.
They lost more than one red shirt that way.

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Post #: 13
RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/23/2010 6:03:00 AM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 2428
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline 		I also create my mods based on what races are strongest
I kind of do the same thing.

But you have a good idea in that there are probably lots of worlds not quite in space flight that would end up in the middle of these wars.

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Post #: 14
RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/23/2010 6:11:12 AM   
Kayoz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr

I wouldn't put any race in Star Trek with a intelligence below Moderately Intelligent
I have to agree here.


You guys forgot about the Pakleds? Moderately intelligent? Them?

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 12/23/2010 6:15:10 AM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/23/2010 11:13:50 AM   
Igard


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Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr

I wouldn't put any race in Star Trek with a intelligence below Moderately Intelligent
I have to agree here.


You guys forgot about the Pakleds? Moderately intelligent? Them?


I'm planning on modding the Pakleds at some point, it's just the lack of ship images for them that makes it tricky. I can't agree with making all Star Trek races moderately intelligent and above, there are many races that aren't intelligent. Nausicaans, Chalnoth, Pakled, Lurian (this ones debatable). Not to mention the pre-warp races they meet; Mintakan, Malcorian to name a couple.

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Post #: 16
RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/23/2010 1:59:18 PM   
WoodMan


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From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		lol

Well you got me there, my trek knowledge doesn't go any further than the popular races like the Vulcan, Romulan, Cardassian, Borg etc


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Post #: 17
RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/27/2010 2:53:28 AM   
ehsumrell1


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From: The Briar Patch Nebula
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard


I'm planning on modding the Pakleds at some point, it's just the lack of ship images for them that makes it tricky.


Remember Igard, the Pakleds were masters of deception and stole (redistributed) other races
technology. I would think you could get away with any sort of shipset. Just a thought!

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RE: Race Modifiers Questions - 12/27/2010 3:02:22 AM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Yeah, that's good thinking Ed. If you remember the episode where they kidnap Geordi, they had a very generic wedge shaped vessel. I've got that one and I could always modify it slightly, but their ships will be sort of 'rip-offs' of other designs. Should be fun.

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Post #: 19
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