Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

It is legal, right?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> It is legal, right? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
It is legal, right? - 1/22/2011 12:45:55 AM   
madgamer2

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline 		There was a comment made about taking the manual pdf files and have them printed up into a nice 8 1/2' x 11" with a plastic cover sheet. I was wondering is it legal to have the pdf files printed like this is it not. I mean if it was copyrighted it would say so according to the man at the copyworks store here where I live. I just wanted to ask if I can do this as well ithout breaking some law.
My old eyes are not what they used to be an a standard sized manual with larger print would be great as I will have to have the manual close at hand, so i need to know if it is legal.

Thanks
Madgamer2

_____________________________

If your not part of the solution
You are part of the problem
Post #: 1
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/22/2011 12:59:39 AM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		Want an esoteric answer, Madgamer?

I remember years ago, on the WitP forum we asked if we could make a copy of the original CD. The answer was YES. So I guess it should be the same here. It's YOUR game, and that printed PDF will be YOURS

Esoteric enough?

_____________________________

a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

(in reply to madgamer2)
Post #: 2
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/22/2011 2:09:42 AM   
madgamer2

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Want an esoteric answer, Madgamer?

I remember years ago, on the WitP forum we asked if we could make a copy of the original CD. The answer was YES. So I guess it should be the same here. It's YOUR game, and that printed PDF will be YOURS

Esoteric enough?


My My now look who is being esoteric......You must know there is a big difference between a PDF file and a game Disk. IF Matrix actually allows having there game disks copied A PDF file being part of a program and not containing a copyright notice can be copied. I admit i posted that thread to bait you ...Not a nice thing to do ...so now I AM being esoteric. BTW I am surprised that matrix allows there game disks to be copied and be usable.
I am sorry it was not a nice thing to do but you strike me as a very intelligent and education person and I am afraid my envy is showing a bit.

Madgamer2


_____________________________

If your not part of the solution
You are part of the problem

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 3
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/22/2011 2:27:54 AM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		It should not be complicated. It's your game, it contains a PDF which YOU -and only you- will be reading. I can't see the problem

_____________________________

a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

(in reply to madgamer2)
Post #: 4
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/22/2011 3:48:30 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		IIRC, Matrix had some setup with Kinkos, or something like that.

Don't see any difference between using your own printer or paying someone else to do it. Outside of the money.

As for the other..... I burned the d/l onto a DVD. And have it on the C drive. Almost all my Matrix games are on DVDs.



< Message edited by Aurelian -- 1/22/2011 3:54:02 AM >

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 5
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/22/2011 4:42:26 AM   
stewartbragg


Posts: 95
Joined: 7/4/2008
Status: offline 		Matrix is one of those companies that let's you make copies for Your own Use. As long as you don't sell it you are fine, it's your property.

_____________________________

HOI3 & AACW2 Beta Tester

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 6
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/22/2011 5:34:20 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Copy your big print. I'm sure its ok...I'm going blind also, I hate it tring to read the manuel with its small print. Good thing I know the rules.....

_____________________________

Jon Pyle
AWD Beta tester
WBTS Alpha tester
WitE Alpha tester
WitW Alpha tester
WitE2 Alpha tester

(in reply to stewartbragg)
Post #: 7
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/22/2011 9:34:14 AM   
WilliePete

 

Posts: 265
Joined: 8/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer2

There was a comment made about taking the manual pdf files and have them printed up into a nice 8 1/2' x 11" with a plastic cover sheet. I was wondering is it legal to have the pdf files printed like this is it not. I mean if it was copyrighted it would say so according to the man at the copyworks store here where I live. I just wanted to ask if I can do this as well ithout breaking some law.
My old eyes are not what they used to be an a standard sized manual with larger print would be great as I will have to have the manual close at hand, so i need to know if it is legal.

Thanks
Madgamer2


legal? Do you really give two sh*ts whether it is legal or not? After all, you paid A LOT of money for this game. I'd say print away! Send me a copy when you get around to it...



< Message edited by WilliePete -- 1/22/2011 9:36:19 AM >

_____________________________

- They That Sow The Wind, Shall Reap The Whirlwind -

(in reply to madgamer2)
Post #: 8
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/22/2011 9:36:03 AM   
WilliePete

 

Posts: 265
Joined: 8/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WilliePete

quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer2

There was a comment made about taking the manual pdf files and have them printed up into a nice 8 1/2' x 11" with a plastic cover sheet. I was wondering is it legal to have the pdf files printed like this is it not. I mean if it was copyrighted it would say so according to the man at the copyworks store here where I live. I just wanted to ask if I can do this as well ithout breaking some law.
My old eyes are not what they used to be an a standard sized manual with larger print would be great as I will have to have the manual close at hand, so i need to know if it is legal.

Thanks
Madgamer2


legal? Do you really give two sh*ts whether it is legal or not? After all, you paid A LOT of money for this game. I'd say print away! Send me a copy when you get around to it...



_____________________________

- They That Sow The Wind, Shall Reap The Whirlwind -

(in reply to WilliePete)
Post #: 9
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/22/2011 2:15:24 PM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline 		Why did you suppose there is a print-friendly version of the rules provided with Matrix games, if not to print?  They do this to help you deal with the fact they can't afford to do real manuals (read: hardcopy manuals).


_____________________________

"Lose" is the opposite of "win." "Loose" is the opposite of "tight."

Friends Don't Let Friends Facebook.

Twitter is for... (wait for it!) ...Twits!

(in reply to WilliePete)
Post #: 10
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/22/2011 8:32:10 PM   
madgamer2

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline 		What is odd is i tried to print it on my cheep brother laser printer and the toner cartridge needs to be rep[laced and does not have a good enough gray scale to do the job right. I will be living with this manual for a long time so I went three copy places before I found one that would do the job because the other two were afraid of getting involved in some kind ow law suite or some such thing.
I even explained that if it was copyrighted material it would say so. I went to a copyworks store and the manager said there was no problem. so I had him print the main manual, the tutorial manual and the editor. The main is in a spiral bound form with a plastic cover sheet front and back and the other two are in one manual also spiral and with cover sheets.
There high tech printers could do a first class job in b&W and the manuals look great. Cost me $40 but it was worth it.
I plan to read thorough the main manual and follow the forum and get the up dates as they pop up and am in no hurry to plunge in to the fray without doing this and the tutorial games and the shorter games.
My real problem even after reading the boot camp thread is I still do not have a clue as how the air system works, how to have the AI do it, how good is the AI? I cringe at the thought of getting to that part of the manual but by then perhaps there will be a thread i can actually understand.

I do have to admit I find your posts rather "interesting" and not the usual run of the mill kind of responses you sometime get. I dare say you might even be able to help me out if you were a mind to but I am not sure if I would if the situation was reversed is someone posted some of the stuff I have.

Keep'm rolling
Madgamer2

_____________________________

If your not part of the solution
You are part of the problem

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 11
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/22/2011 9:18:17 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		Madgamer, I will tell you a *secret*. I'm on my 12 PBEM turn and really don't know how the air thing works either As the Soviet it possibly does not matter that much, given that the Germans rule the sky. As a German that might be a problem though.

One of these days I will re-read the manual and see if I manage to understand how it works

_____________________________

a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

(in reply to madgamer2)
Post #: 12
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/23/2011 12:06:36 AM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: E

Why did you suppose there is a print-friendly version of the rules provided with Matrix games, if not to print?  They do this to help you deal with the fact they can't afford to do real manuals (read: hardcopy manuals).



There exists even a legal background for this. It's called "Fair Use":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

_____________________________


(in reply to E)
Post #: 13
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/23/2011 12:29:39 AM   
jazman

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 1/20/2007
From: Crush Depth
Status: offline 		The reason Matrix provides "E-book" and "printer-friendly" versions of the documentation is to confuse us. What is this "printer-friendly" thing?

_____________________________

BS, MS, PhD, WitP:AE, WitE, WitW

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 14
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/23/2011 3:13:09 AM   
cookie monster


Posts: 1693
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Birmingham,England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jazman

The reason Matrix provides "E-book" and "printer-friendly" versions of the documentation is to confuse us. What is this "printer-friendly" thing?


You should open it!

I did

Its written on single pages.

I think it would be a much easier read for our forum members who have bad eyesight.

(in reply to jazman)
Post #: 15
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/23/2011 11:50:30 AM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		The printer-friendly issue lacks of background graphics and hence wastes less ink.

_____________________________


(in reply to cookie monster)
Post #: 16
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/24/2011 12:42:11 AM   
FJeff

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2003
Status: offline 		1. This doesn't fall under the Fair Use Doctrine, which is widely misunderstood.

2. I can't pull it back up, but the Licensing Agreement we all agreed to on installation gives us a license to use the software but no ownership rights. We all read that before we agreed, didn't we?

_____________________________

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fightin' for?

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 17
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/24/2011 1:38:31 AM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FJeff

1. This doesn't fall under the Fair Use Doctrine, which is widely misunderstood.

2. I can't pull it back up, but the Licensing Agreement we all agreed to on installation gives us a license to use the software but no ownership rights. We all read that before we agreed, didn't we?


sure we did...sure we did.....

(in reply to FJeff)
Post #: 18
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/24/2011 1:43:42 AM   
FJeff

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2003
Status: offline 		And, for that matter,the manual is copyrighted by the fact of it's being "published" by Matrix, whether or not it's explicitly stated. Staples/Kinkos etc are right in being reluctant to print. If Matix wanted to allow us to print it they should have included an "okay to copy" statement.

_____________________________

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fightin' for?

(in reply to Phatguy)
Post #: 19
RE: It is legal, right? - 1/24/2011 3:22:53 AM   
madgamer2

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jazman

The reason Matrix provides "E-book" and "printer-friendly" versions of the documentation is to confuse us. What is this "printer-friendly" thing?


nOW i KNOW AND YOU KNOW AND FOR ALL i KNOW MOST OF THE WORLD KNOWS EXCEPT THE FIRST TWO PRINT PLACES I WENT TO SAID THEY COULD NOT DO IT FOR COPYRIGHT. sorry I am yelling again. I was fortunate to go to a copyworks place and he said that if it was copyright protected it would say so. He had done this sort of job before for other gamers and people needing a copy of a particular PDF file.
They did a great job and spiraled the manual and had a plastic cover sheet, There high resolution B&W printer did a great job and the print can be read much easier and quicker which means I can read it twice on one week end so I might remember some of it LOL

Madgamer2

_____________________________

If your not part of the solution
You are part of the problem

(in reply to jazman)
Post #: 20
RE: It is legal, right? [printing manual at printers] - 1/25/2011 12:01:17 AM   
uncc


Posts: 448
Joined: 6/1/2002
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		This is something Matrixgames will need to address. I had Staples print my copy of WitP AE manual last year and there were no problems because this situation is explicitly addressed in the license info:

WiTP AE, Ebook PDF file pg 330

THE ENCLOSED SOFTWARE PROGRAM AND THIS MANUAL ARE COPYRIGHTED. ALL RIGHTS ARE RESERVED. THE ORIGINAL PURCHASER MAY PRINT OR HAVE A PRINT/COPY SHOP MAKE A PRINTOUT AND/OR COPY OF THE MANUAL...

However, it seems Matrixgames may have gotten a new lawyer because this is what is in the WitE manual regarding printing:

WiTE, Ebook PDF file pg 378
(3) With regard to archive purposes, you may handle the software product like any other by copyright protected work, and you may not make copies of the printed materials, which are included with the software product, including the packaging...


There is no legalese in the WiTE manual that is similar to what is in the WiTP AE manual. If someone can find it, please point it out. I'm still going to print the manual at home and bring it to Staples for binding. Hopefully that will get me past the legal eagles ....

< Message edited by uncc -- 1/25/2011 12:17:34 AM >

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once -- David Hume, Scottish philosopher (1711 - 1776)

(in reply to madgamer2)
Post #: 21
a FINE POINT - 1/25/2011 2:00:47 AM   
madgamer2

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline 		THE MANUAL IN THE GAME IS "printed material" HOWEVER the pdf is a file and not part of the "printed Material" that comes with the game. A judge would still rule against you I would think. I find it odd that no matrix person has responded to this post. It did not say in the pdf file that it could not be copied but did in the manual. it would appear I broke the law and could be held libel for doing what I did but I did not realize that they had changed there poliocy from WitP to WitE. Ignorance to the law is no excuse but it might get me a shorter sentence

A somewhat worried
Madgamer2.

_____________________________

If your not part of the solution
You are part of the problem

(in reply to uncc)
Post #: 22
RE: a FINE POINT - 1/25/2011 3:20:40 AM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline 		.


_____________________________

"Lose" is the opposite of "win." "Loose" is the opposite of "tight."

Friends Don't Let Friends Facebook.

Twitter is for... (wait for it!) ...Twits!

(in reply to madgamer2)
Post #: 23
RE: a FINE POINT - 1/25/2011 12:02:41 PM   
Reconvet

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 1/17/2011
Status: offline 		Come on, do you really think anybody could be interested in pursuing somebody who printed a pdf-manual for personal use only, with you very obviously having no commercial interest in doing so?

They obviously don't try to rip off sight handicapped people by selling a product as you want to use, therefore there is no damage done to them and no reason for them to invest time in pursuing you.

I'd have absolutely ZERO bad conscience in printing this pdf. Stop worrying.



_____________________________

The biggest threat for mankind is ignorance.


(in reply to madgamer2)
Post #: 24
RE: a FINE POINT - 1/25/2011 2:26:19 PM   
stewartbragg


Posts: 95
Joined: 7/4/2008
Status: offline 		Look I've been a cop for 16 years. I have friends at the FBI as well as many Attorney friends. If printing this manual was illegal I could loose my job for conduct unbecoming. The big issue is PERSONAL USE. As long as it is for YOU and YOU alone and you aren't going to sell it you are safe. As previously mentioned, they would give you a printable PDF copy if they didn't expect you to print it.

_____________________________

HOI3 & AACW2 Beta Tester

(in reply to Reconvet)
Post #: 25
RE: a FINE POINT - 1/25/2011 2:50:01 PM   
morganbj


Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline 		I don't have this problem. I work at a university and have a networked, duplex capable color printer down the hall. Thirty minutes early in the morning, and the deed is done.


<I used to be able to say that when I was first married, too, but for other reasons. >

(in reply to stewartbragg)
Post #: 26
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> It is legal, right? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.297