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Fortification query - 3/2/2011 5:40:13 PM   
coolts


Posts: 391
Joined: 2/1/2011
From: Auf Wiedersehen, Pet
Status: offline 		I have just realised that I have misunderstood part of the whole fortification system. All of the AAR’s I’ve been reading have been talking about soviets “digging in” along the Dnepr and the axis “digging in” for winter. I assumed that meant they were creating fortified zones/units “shift-f”.

It seems, after studying AAR screenshots that this is fairly rare and must mean something else. Either units taking advantage of the terrain defence modifiers, (p203), or more likely “combat unit fort level construction”.

“During the enemy player’s logistics phase, units will use their construction value toward building a fort level. Units that moved during their turn construct fort levels during the next logistics phase with whatever percentage of their MPs that are left.”

My n00b query is how do I trigger this? Does it happen just by occupying a hex and watching the fort level % increase over time like a passive ability? The manual isn’t explicit in its implementation. (or more likely i'm over-thinking the whole thing)

“For construction on a fort level to begin in a hex, there must be a combat unit in the hex.”

< Message edited by coolts -- 3/2/2011 5:45:09 PM >
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RE: Fortification query - 3/2/2011 5:47:19 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		Happens automagically, but you can speed up the digging by assigning construction support units to relevant HQ. Not sure exactly which factors affect the speed of digging in, but I'm pretty sure they include the type of terrain (slower in swamp, etc.) and the weather. You can check what level fortification has been achieved by hitting the f key.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 3/2/2011 6:02:44 PM >

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RE: Fortification query - 3/2/2011 6:18:25 PM   
color

 

Posts: 324
Joined: 7/24/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		I've been using fortified zones extensibly as Germans during atumn & blizzard. A short summary would be:

- due to low exp & morale I doubt their usefulness as:
   1. Most of the newly created ones go unready during blizzard & and it seems unready units don't contribute to digging-in
   2. I theorize they generate a substantial amount of attrition losses! Low morale/exp units suffer the most attrition and also get most of their damaged elements destroyed during blizzard. I have yet to make an experiment to confirm this, but I have a strong suspicion creating fortified zones when winter sets in, is actually counter productive in terms of just worsening the losses for the germans.
- Those fortified zones that do survive in ready state, don't seem to dig in very fast. Maybe if you attach pioners or construction battaltions (if possible) .. this might help.

So IMHO they are good the rest of the year, but if a German player wants to use them to actually create fall back lines for winter, he should start doing so in october/november at the latest.


< Message edited by color -- 3/2/2011 6:19:35 PM >

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RE: Fortification query - 3/2/2011 6:47:30 PM   
cookie monster


Posts: 1693
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Birmingham,England
Status: offline 		http://witewiki.com/index.php/Defensive_Techniques#Fortifications

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RE: Fortification query - 3/2/2011 7:23:35 PM   
Mike Parker

 

Posts: 583
Joined: 12/30/2008
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Fortified Zones/Regions depending on your side can be used to dig in for you. They cost AP to construct, they take manpower that could instead be manning your combat divisions, they are woefully poor if attacked. However if you need to prepare a line of fortifications in a rear area doing so with these units is often preferable to leaving infantry formations in your rear areas.

Do not let them be attacked. Its a waste of manpower, disband them if they are in danger of being attacked. If they are still useful for digging in and are stacked with powerful combat units, you can certainly leave them. Just do not expect them to contribute to the defense of the hex (other than the fortifications they provide of course).

You should carefully consider the AP cost of building these units and weight that agaist the benefit of the increased rate of fortifications. They can dramatically accelerate the rate of fortification building in a hex, but its an AP investment you lose when you eventually disband them.

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RE: Fortification query - 3/2/2011 7:54:34 PM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
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From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		Fort regions can be used to dig in rear areas when you don't want to waste combat units doing this instead of being on the front. They can also be used to maintain the fortification level of hex rather than letting that fort decay. So for instance, the axis could plop down fort regions on cities or at choke points as he advances and let the fort unit dig. That way, you will have a fort to fall back on if you need to retreat. Disband fort before they become involved in combat, though!

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RE: Fortification query - 3/2/2011 8:11:21 PM   
coolts


Posts: 391
Joined: 2/1/2011
From: Auf Wiedersehen, Pet
Status: offline 		cheers for the help and advice guys.

cookie, the wiki is coming along really well. its going to be an invaluable resource imo.

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RE: Fortification query - 3/2/2011 9:11:38 PM   
Jim D Burns


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Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		As the Germans in 1941, I'd put a fortified region in every partisan capable city to help with garrison requirements. The forts they dig are an added bonus, but the units you save from garrison requirements will be put to good use in the blizzard turns.

I'd also place one in every town hex within 10-12 hexes of the front lines if the town is capable of sheltering your units during the blizzards. That way when you fall back, the critical hexes needed to shelter your units from the weather will be much more defensible.

Jim


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RE: Fortification query - 3/2/2011 9:13:28 PM   
color

 

Posts: 324
Joined: 7/24/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

As the Germans in 1941, I'd put a fortified region in every partisan capable city to help with garrison requirements. The forts they dig are an added bonus, but the units you save from garrison requirements will be put to good use in the blizzard turns.

I'd also place one in every town hex within 10-12 hexes of the front lines if the town is capable of sheltering your units during the blizzards. That way when you fall back, the critical hexes needed to shelter your units from the weather will be much more defensible.

Jim



+1 sounds like very good advice

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Post #: 9
RE: Fortification query - 3/2/2011 9:13:41 PM   
Joel Billings


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Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		It's important to realize that you dig faster when not adjacent to the enemy.

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RE: Fortification query - 3/2/2011 9:16:36 PM   
cookie monster


Posts: 1693
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Birmingham,England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: coolts

cheers for the help and advice guys.

cookie, the wiki is coming along really well. its going to be an invaluable resource imo.


Its mostly Bwheatley and me, one other guy wrote the ''Early Soviet Air Strategy''.

We really need input from you guys. Any input would be good input. Im sure there are some items you may want on the appropriate wishlist. Also the FAQ section could be better.

I try not to cut and paste the manual, but sometimes it gives good info and allows the user to ''Gen'' up, on what they're unsure off.

My favourite is ''Retreat from a Salient'' in Ground Combat defensive techniques. The salients are unimaginable monsters!

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RE: Fortification query - 3/2/2011 9:17:32 PM   
cookie monster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

It's important to realize that you dig faster when not adjacent to the enemy.


Also forts cannot go higher than 2 when the enemy is 25 hexes away.

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RE: Fortification query - 3/2/2011 9:28:10 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		IIRC, the Soviet units are not as good at digging as the equivilant German ones. So it pays to stack them

I stack airborne brigades three to a hex and have them dig at the land bridge near Snolensk.

To quote ComradeP "Stack 3 of them (the above mentioned brigades) in a single hex and they have a decent construction value by Soviet standards, so let them dig."

One thing about fortified regions/zones is that you can attach artilleyr SUs to them. So imagine a FR with two divisions and several artillery attachments.

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 3/2/2011 9:35:46 PM >

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RE: Fortification query - 3/4/2011 7:52:12 AM   
cookie monster


Posts: 1693
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From: Birmingham,England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
One thing about fortified regions/zones is that you can attach artilleyr SUs to them. So imagine a FR with two divisions and several artillery attachments.


The benefit of directly attached arty to fort units is the arty is considered 'ZEROED' on the higher fort levels. This will cause massive damage to the enemy. I was thinking of attaching arty to them in my 41 GC, but Ive lost 32 plus arty su's due to combat shattering. I now have to transfer low TOE su's back to STAVKA for refit every turn. I only realised when the losses became too high.

Forts can attach 3 su's of any kind.

I believe they can attach any amount of construction/engineer though, because once I over clicked and attached 4 RR Brigade. I thought it was strange. I think quicksaved and attached about 30 RR Brigades.

I usually attach 3 RR Brigades to them. This would add up to 120 plus Construction Value, but in game they build forts slower than 2 Divs at approx 60 construction value.

They are good to place at cities on the back lines cos the citizens can help to build the forts.

Any su's attached to them are destroyed when the fort unit surrenders, however the su is not shown in the destroyed section of the losses screen. But on checking the commanders report it is no longer ingame.

You will get about 30% of the units devices back to the production pool upon surrender. You can view this in the CR battles tab men/guns/AFV escaped column.

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RE: Fortification query - 3/4/2011 12:18:41 PM   
saintsup

 

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From: La Celle Saint-Clouud
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

in every partisan capable city


How do I find the list of these cities?

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RE: Fortification query - 3/4/2011 1:25:20 PM   
cookie monster


Posts: 1693
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Birmingham,England
Status: offline 		I dont play Axis, but I guess you click on show garrisons button on the map info panel. Blue is good. Next to a town name such as Minsk is a % you should meet 100% at every highlighted location.

I guess mainly large towns and cities need to be garrisoned

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