Dutch Air

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> Dutch Air

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Dutch Air - 11/4/2020 6:18:48 AM

LGKMAS

Posts: 267
Joined: 4/25/2010
Status: offline

Situation
Scenario 6 GC start 8 Dec. now late October 42.
I have managed to salvage the Dutch air and withdraw it to Merauke. I now have about 24 Dutch bomber pilots in four units there are 4 more in 18 Sdn RAAF (labelled as a Dutch unit).
The air replacement pool tells me that the Dutch production/replacement is finished for the Mitchells that they are flying.
Indeed, I also have about 8 or nine Catalina dets all at max strength of 3. And the i Screen tells me that as of Dec 42, there are no more planes available to the Dutch.
I realise that once Surabaya fell, the Dutch National Base was over. But what this does is hand me a gradually wasting asset, where the pilots, all well trained and highly skilled will have to retire and sit in the Officers mess and drink Bols because the system will not allow them any more planes, even though the planes don't get produced in Surabaya but in the USA and would have had to be flown past their airfields to get to Surabaya.
In real life the neglect of so many highly trained pilots would be a criminal offence.
Have I missed something? I cannot seem to find anywhere that tells me how to use these valuable fliers.
My limited search skills have turned up nothing in the board. If this has been discussed before, can someone post me a link so I can see how this has been dealt with in the past.
EDIT
I decided to try one more time on the forum search with a few different search terms and suddenly had a lot of info fall into my lap.(see what I mean about my limited search skills!!!)It seems possible(?) that by disbanding Dutch air, you can have it reappear later at Aden. Not sure from my readings of the back and forth if that also gives me aircraft.
I will try the disband trick and see if it works.

< Message edited by LGKMAS -- 11/4/2020 6:28:17 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Dutch Air - 11/4/2020 6:53:09 AM

jdsrae

Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline

You might already know this, but here�s a link that summarises what happened IRL:
https://www.awm.gov.au/visit/exhibitions/alliesinadversity/australia/nei

It might just be a game mechanics thing that makes this real life detail difficult to model

Going from memory here, but the 18 Sqn RAAF pilots in game have Dutch looking names.
I can�t remember if you can send Dutch reserve pilots to the unit or not, or even if the Dutch have a pilot replacement rate.

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 11/4/2020 6:59:27 AM >

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no SolInvictus): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to LGKMAS)

Post #: 2

RE: Dutch Air - 11/4/2020 7:06:37 AM

LGKMAS

Posts: 267
Joined: 4/25/2010
Status: offline

Yeah, I do know about 18 Sdn. They were Dutch but for some reason were regarded as part of the RAAF. There is a book about them, not very well written, though. I think if they are labelled Dutch in the game, like the Canadian FAA unit, you can send pilots there.
I am more concerned that I don't seem to have any aircraft for them. 18 Sdn RAAF has been on the board for months now and still has only the 4 aircraft it started with. I have four Mitchell units at Merauke that never seem to take reinforcements. Merauke is over 20K supplies and has a size 4 AF. So, if there were aircraft in the pool, they should be able to build up.
However, as I said, the pool shows no aircraft and the i screen Aircraft replacement pool shows every aircraft when you enter Dutch as red, with the exception of PBY-5 which, as I said previously, finishes in Dec 42. After that, there seems to be no aircraft available to the Dutch, even those flying with the RAAF.
I suppose my question is whether or not the Fall of Surabaya means aircraft deliveries to the Dutch have ceased and therefore they will be a wasting asset, lots of good trained pilots but no aircraft available for them to fly?

(in reply to jdsrae)

Post #: 3

RE: Dutch Air - 11/4/2020 7:47:23 AM

tolsdorff

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
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You get 45 B-25C's in march 1942. When no 18 sqn Raaf comes on the map, it comes with 2 additional damaged B-25C's.
That makes 47 dutch B-25's. Just enough for 1 squadron for 6 months or so, if you are lucky. They won't last long.

No 18 sqn Raaf can swap to mitchell II's (88 planes in total) later on. That is 1 extra squadron of bombers. Just enough planes for about 1 year or so. Give or take.

Additionally, there is a pool of american B-25C's, which can be used, according to a 10 year old post from Alfred below, for the dutch units as well. About 100 are produced.
Again, enough for 1 squadron. They will run out soon enough as well.

So, if you are careful , these squadrons can be operational until, when you are lucky, 1943. Then you will run out of planes.
The dutch pilot pool will waste away from that point on.

This is what Alfred has to say in that older post i was referring to :

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

... One question just in case anyone knows

1) when i take new planes listed as dutch in the plane upgrade screen are these planes also avialable to the US ? as Lenny has stated he's only got 1 B25 in the pool. I looked at the B25 reinforcement schedule and it seems that they arrive 3/42 for the Dutch and 8/42 for the Yanks...

There is a very limited cross usage. But I don't think that is really the correct question to ask. IMHO, the correct question is which foreign models can the Dutch airforce use. Dutch aircraft production is extremely limited. If you do well and still have any Dutch air units flying in June 1942, you will be desperate to find any aircraft to keep your Dutch units operational.

The foreign models which you can use for Dutch units are:

Fighters - only the Australian B-339-23. Total production of 14 plus 5 which can be canabilised from a future arriving Australian unit.

Bombers - two options here. The direct swap is the American B-25C which only becomes available in August 1942. It's total scheduled production run is only 100 aircraft (over 5 months). The indirect swap is via the RAAF Dutch unit (18 Sqn RAAF) which arrives with American B-25s before August. These can be swapped out for Australian Mitchell IIs (total production run of 88 over 22 months!)

Ship based float planes - the Australian OS2U-3 Kingfisher. Total production run of 24.

There are no foreign models available for the Dutch Recon, Patrol and Transport air units. These units will eventually cease to operate solely from operational attrition although there is limited 1942 production of the Dutch PBY-5 Catalina (total production of 26).

Alfred

(in reply to LGKMAS)

Post #: 4

RE: Dutch Air - 11/4/2020 7:55:23 AM

LGKMAS

Posts: 267
Joined: 4/25/2010
Status: offline

Okay, thanks for that.
As I feared, the Dutch pilots will be a wasting asset because of no planes to fly. Seems a real shame that we get all these experienced pilots and they can do nothing. I will try and make sure the 18 Sdn pilots are rotated to keep the skills up but it really seems pointless. To get planes, I have to disband existing units that can be doing small things like naval search, etc. Perhaps the designers did not envisage the Dutch lasting as long as we have made the last.

(in reply to tolsdorff)

Post #: 5