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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Tech Support >> Maximum MTOE and then some

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Maximum MTOE and then some - 1/29/2012 3:36:20 AM

IdahoNYer

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Was wondering if this is normal - set a bunch of rifle divisions (vs Ger AI, just upgraded from latest official patch to 105.53 beta) to refit, and they continue to grow combat power well beyond 100% MTOE. Is this WAD?

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 1/29/2012 6:31:46 PM

carlkay58

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Is it possible that they have recently converted TOEs? As in going from 41a Rifle Division to 41b?

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 1/29/2012 6:53:45 PM

IdahoNYer

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That's what I thought perhaps, or maybe reverting to an older MTOE - but even the 41a Rifle Div had just over 14,000 men in it - I've got a couple of divisions moving past 16,000.

Just don't think that's correct...

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 1/29/2012 8:35:22 PM

Schmart

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I've casually suspected that there might be something odd with the max TOE portion of the game. I've noticed on numerous occasions where I reduce the Max TOE (I reduce Russian Rifle Div TOE in 1942 to 90%), and yet units will still very often go over the Max TOE when on refit, but I haven't seen large overages like yours. Other times, I'll set a burnt out or newly built unit to 50 or 75% to build back morale, and the TOE seems to hold there. It's mostly when Max TOE is set to 80 or 90% that it seems to have a good chance of going over.

I've also noticed that even when the primary elements of a Rifle Division (like Rifle Squads) are individually at the Max TOE, other elements will be in excess (Sapper Squards or Guns or Support Squads) which will put the indicated 'global' TOE for the Division above the Max TOE. It seems as though even less numerous equipment (say a TOE of 10 guns over by 1 or 2) has more effect on the indicated global TOE of the Division, almost as if the indicated TOE is based on Armament Pts, rather than numbers alone.

Oddly, I've only really noticed these things with Rifle Divisions. Tank, Mech, Cav, Art units seem to hold their TOE at 90% much better (some still go over, but not to the same extent as Rifle units).

As the screenshot shows, even though my Divisions are set to 90% TOE, many have gone over, almost as if the game thinks they should be at 100%, not 90%.

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< Message edited by Schmart -- 1/29/2012 8:36:00 PM >

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 1/29/2012 9:49:48 PM

randallw

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This may be the transition period when the modified rifle squad ( without an MG ) starts getting deployed, and the regular squads ( with an MG ) slowly get swapped out. For some periods you'll have a total amount of squads higher than normal.

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 1/29/2012 10:03:34 PM

Speedysteve

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Yes. This kind of stuff can happen during 'upgrades' when older TOE's may have a lot more of 1 element than is needed in the current TOE. If and when other elements need more equipment then the TOE can comfortably exceed 100% until the 'excess' element are lost due to combat etc. Could you provide a detailed screenshot of one of these units in questions and show it's element and TOE's etc?

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 1/30/2012 12:03:48 AM

IdahoNYer

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Here ya go Speedy - the worst offender....the 106th Rifle. It continues to expand - about 1000 men since last turn.

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 1/30/2012 8:14:53 AM

sillyflower

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just lie back and enjoy the upcoming blizzard

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 1/30/2012 8:32:19 AM

Speedysteve

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Thanks Idaho.

Hmm. That does potentially look a little odd.

Would you be able to send me a save as I'd like to have a look? I can then pass onto Pavel etc afterwards if I can find a solution.

I'll PM you.

Thanks

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 1/30/2012 6:23:00 PM

Helpless

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Save would be very much appreciated. I'm not able to replicate it with what I have.

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 1/30/2012 10:32:01 PM

IdahoNYer

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File emailed to Speedy

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 1/31/2012 1:33:33 PM

Speedysteve

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Thanks IdahoNYer. Pavel has had a look and identified what's needed.

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 2/1/2012 3:38:42 AM

IdahoNYer

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No prob - hope it can be fixed. In the meantime, I'll enjoy using the overstrength units in the blizzard offensive!

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 2/1/2012 6:17:47 AM

Joel Billings

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Pavel reported that he found and fixed this. It will be in the next version released, hopefully within the next few days or week. Thanks for the saves.

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RE: Maximum MTOE and then some - 2/1/2012 1:59:39 PM

DorianGray

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Good find and fix!

Never really noticed this issue on my end as my troops don't sit idle long enough to enjoy reaching such over-strength levels.

However, I hope that whatever fix that is implimented won't create hard-limits on formations that are left in rear-area idle-refit mode with the intention of building them up for anticipated offensive/defensive campaigns.

Since their is no game-setting that explicitly allows you to set an over-strength threshold, implicitly I would expect that anything less than 100% of TOE strength would be more of a "hard-limit" on formation strength, where as the 100% TOE setting allowed a gradual overstrength capacity potential.

I think, historically, there were key formations that were over-strength on occassion knowing that once the seasonal campaign begins there will be little or no opportunity to allow them to sit idle long enough to recover significant losses until the campaign concludes.

The Grossdeutschland Division comes to mind when I think of overstrength formations.

Grossdeutschland

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