Vehicle pathing...they always seem to find the nearest building!

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Vehicle pathing...they always seem to find the nearest building!

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Vehicle pathing...they always seem to find the nearest building!

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Vehicle pathing...they always seem to find the nearest ... - 2/1/2001 9:22:00 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

Is this something you guys have found extremely annoying? When you give any vehicle unit a point A-point B command, say 5 or 6 hexes, and there's a friendly unit and a building in the path, invariably the vehicle unit plows right into the nearest building to avoid any interfering with a hex occupied by friendly units, and it subsequently becomes immobilized. I suppose the lesson is to move ALL vehicle units one hex at a time, BUT, this tendency is still maddening.

_____________________________

Post #: 1

- 2/1/2001 9:29:00 AM

USMCGrunt

Posts: 174
Joined: 1/17/2001
From: Yarmouth, ME, US
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by KG Erwin: Is this something you guys have found extremely annoying? When you give any vehicle unit a point A-point B command, say 5 or 6 hexes, and there's a friendly unit and a building in the path, invariably the vehicle unit plows right into the nearest building to avoid any interfering with a hex occupied by friendly units, and it subsequently becomes immobilized. I suppose the lesson is to move ALL vehicle units one hex at a time, BUT, this tendency is still maddening.

I wholeheartedly agree KG. It seems that either the SPWAW drivers either greatly overestimate the capabilities of the vehicles, or else they all attended the Keystone Kops/3 Stooges school of driving. This is something that can make a scenario much more difficult that it should be. City fights are especially prone to this and more times than not, I end up swearing. I would agree that this is an area that needs work. Either that, or keep the vehicle drivers from drinking on the job. ------------------ USMCGrunt -When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight.

_____________________________

USMCGrunt Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?" But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll! -Rudyard Kipling-

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 2

- 2/1/2001 10:53:00 AM

RobertMc

Posts: 134
Joined: 5/10/2000
From: Birmingham, Alabama, USA
Status: offline

The solution to this might be to increase the movement points needed for an AFV or other vehicle to enter a building hex. Then the AI likely wouldn't do it so much (or, rather, the AI would be *unable* to do it so much). Or make building hexes off-limits to AFVs or other vehicles, but some folks enjoy crashing into the buildings, so...

_____________________________

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 3

- 2/1/2001 8:12:00 PM

x6ftundx_slith

Posts: 69
Joined: 12/21/2000
From: fort myers, fla.
Status: offline

i agree... i must loose 2-3 vehicles every scenario becuase of this... even when im slow and move them 1 hex at a time sometimes they still end up in a building (becuase of the map)... i would love to see this fixed... maybe you could make vehicle repair better and faster that would counteract the building? Commando Solo

_____________________________

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 4

- 2/1/2001 8:27:00 PM

Fredde

Posts: 498
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Goteborg, Sweden
Status: offline

I'd like to see a pop-up box stating 'Are you sure you want to drive into this building and immobilize the vehicle?' which you could answer with a yes/no just like the opfire. To the AI, buildings should be off-limit.. and generally, movement points required to crash into a building with a tank should increase.

_____________________________

"If infantry is the Queen of the battlefield, artillery is her backbone", Jukka L. M�kel� about the Finnish victory at Ihantala.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 5

- 2/1/2001 8:34:00 PM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline

Yeah, it still happens frequently, if youre in the heat of the battle, although you know the danger.

So take care of the "hex info" pop out box and go 1-2, 2-3....

------------------------ RockinHarry

_____________________________

RockinHarry in the web:

https://www.facebook.com/harry.zann

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 6

- 2/1/2001 8:41:00 PM

Resisti

Posts: 1351
Joined: 1/22/2001
From: Livorno, Italy
Status: offline

Yes,this is really annoying. It should be fixed some way. The AI do this also when it's retreating a vehicle;it happened to me yesterday:it chose a way of retreat which leaded my tank just inside a wooden building(immobilized,of course..). ------------------ Fred "Resisti" Duties If you cannot defeat your enemy,join him.

_____________________________

Federico "Resisti" Doveri

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 7

- 2/1/2001 9:13:00 PM

Warhorse

Posts: 5712
Joined: 5/12/2000
From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Status: offline

Annouing as it is, here is why I think it happens; this engine is from SP3 originally, in SP#, as you know, the citys/villages were able to be driven through, ie, the buildings had no effect on the vehicle, and vice/versa. Well, it got fixed, quite a few times, and maybe I'm just lucky, but this isn't happening to me! It took some doing to be able to have the buildings as an obstacle, now each and every time we do something to the executeable, there's a chance the change will upset something somewhere else, I'm sure that Mike is trying to do something about this, if at all possible. ------------------ Mike Amos Meine Ehre Heisst Treue

_____________________________

Mike Amos

Meine Ehre hei�t Treue
www.cslegion.com

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 8

- 2/1/2001 9:50:00 PM

Kharan

Posts: 505
Joined: 5/9/2000
Status: offline

It's weird, I've seen vehicles behave pretty smart avoiding buildings... There may be two things which make path-finding look bad: 1. Invisible buildings which are left when you delete a multi-hex building. 2. Retreating tanks don't avoid buildings. Take a look at this:

When I clicked where the cursor is, every halftrack used the middle opening even when they had to go through other units. In fact, every where I clicked, no matter how far, I could not get them to go through buildings. Even when I ordered the lowest halftrack to go to 2 hexes left from where it is now, it used the opening, then went around the whole city block. Pretty neat! [This message has been edited by Kharan (edited February 01, 2001).]

_____________________________

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 9

- 2/1/2001 10:15:00 PM

Fredde

Posts: 498
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Goteborg, Sweden
Status: offline

Agreed. To get rid of the problems when changing versions, new patches etc.. a warning when you try to enter a building with a vehicle would be very nice

. This way bad pathfinding won't be a problem any more. It is not a problem most of the time. Sometimes it happens though. Never if its a clean path. If there are other units on the road, increasing the movement cost, and other ways around are also "high-movement cost hexes" the vehicle attempts to take a very smart short-cut and rams the building. Using 'move-all' also seem to give worse pathfinding. Annoying sometimes, but actually a quite small thing. It works as long you are careful. But.. hunt for perfection..

Kharan, in your example, try wooden buildings and slower mech units than halftracks. Also try 'move-all'.

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse: Annouing as it is, here is why I think it happens; this engine is from SP3 originally, in SP#, as you know, the citys/villages were able to be driven through, ie, the buildings had no effect on the vehicle, and vice/versa. Well, it got fixed, quite a few times, and maybe I'm just lucky, but this isn't happening to me! It took some doing to be able to have the buildings as an obstacle, now each and every time we do something to the executeable, there's a chance the change will upset something somewhere else, I'm sure that Mike is trying to do something about this, if at all possible.

_____________________________

"If infantry is the Queen of the battlefield, artillery is her backbone", Jukka L. M�kel� about the Finnish victory at Ihantala.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 10

- 2/1/2001 10:29:00 PM

Kharan

Posts: 505
Joined: 5/9/2000
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Fredde: Kharan, in your example, try wooden buildings and slower mech units than halftracks. Also try 'move-all'.

Yeah, how far units will go to avoid buildings seems to be a function of their available move points. Wood buildings compared to stone buildings didn't make much of a difference, but the required moves are only 8 to 12 respectively.

_____________________________

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 11

- 2/1/2001 11:02:00 PM

x6ftundx_slith

Posts: 69
Joined: 12/21/2000
From: fort myers, fla.
Status: offline

DID YOU KNOW ITS JUST NOT VEHICLES? I was fighting a battle with a bridge in it, when I was crossing the bridge some of the units went into boats instead of crossing the bridge. I even tried to do it 1 hex at a time and even then some did it. The bridge was clear so it couldn't be an obsticle that it was moving around. I guess only MARS knows the answer

Commando Solo

_____________________________

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 12

- 2/1/2001 11:59:00 PM

Dagobert

Posts: 30
Joined: 9/27/2000
Status: offline

I like to think of it as a bit of unintended realism. I'm on the eighth battle or so of utr(the one after the Sig line) and it happened to me at least three times in the first two battles. I guess my boys we're just excited to have tanks. 'Hey Harvey watch where you're going!' 'Shut up and let me drive numbnuts!' WHAM! I blame their suicidal tendancy to engage German armor head-on on inexperience as well

. I wish the 'hex contours' we're a little clearer but I'm not complaining. much.

_____________________________

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 13

- 2/2/2001 12:01:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline

Gentlemen! Let's deal with this in detail. In the latest version that you will be getting, 4.6 or 5.0, I don't see this happening at all, except with amphibious vehicles. But if you use caution, guiding your tanks or vehicles by moving them one hex at a time through a populated (building) area, you will never have this happen. This should be a standard rule, I feel for any commander. As for the rivers and bridges, the AI does seem a little dense when it comes to crossing on bridges. I don't know why this is, but I have seen the same thing. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

_____________________________

In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 14

- 2/2/2001 12:11:00 AM

Kharan

Posts: 505
Joined: 5/9/2000
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Kharan: Yeah, how far units will go to avoid buildings seems to be a function of their available move points. Wood buildings compared to stone buildings didn't make much of a difference, but the required moves are only 8 to 12 respectively.

Just to be clearer, when I replaced the halftracks with tanks, half of the time they rammed into buildings. Ones in the left corners of the building area got out, but ones in the right corners rammed through the buildings. I'm sure this happens with v4.6 also. So the pathfinding algorithm definitely needs a little work, and it needs to be optimized for tanks (15-30 moves), not just for halftracks (40 moves).

_____________________________

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 15

- 2/2/2001 1:30:00 AM

Charles22

Posts: 912
Joined: 5/17/2000
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Status: offline

I almost never have a problem with running into buildings. I would suggest that perhaps the problems people have may be heightened by having a huge amount of units per map width, or perhaps the building density is so bad that it affects pathing dramatically, as opposed to the random stuff I play in campaigns which has maybe 20 buildings tops.

_____________________________

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 16

- 2/2/2001 2:16:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline

Both very good and valid points, Charles22. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

_____________________________

In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 17

- 2/2/2001 3:00:00 AM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline

I'm still playing 4.3b and I never have this problem. ------------------ An old soldier but not yet a faded one. OK, maybe just a bit faded.

_____________________________

Never take counsel of your fears.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 18

- 2/2/2001 5:51:00 AM

Panzer Capta

Posts: 268
Joined: 11/24/2000
From: Bedford, NH, USA
Status: offline

Although frustrating, I think that the chance of immobilization of vehicles adds an interesting aspect to the game. However, i must say that i wish that immobilized vehicles, at least some of the time, maintained the ability to fire weapons. I may be completely wrong, but it appears that all immobilized vehicles are restricted from firing. For example, if a tank becomes immobilized due to tread damage, isnt it possible that it could still retain the ability to fire weapons?

_____________________________

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 19

- 2/2/2001 6:24:00 AM

skukko

Posts: 1928
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

Hi everybody

Immo-vehicles can shoot. They can get immobilized by driving too fast thru the town and crashing into some building. As it happens in real life. This is not annoying, -its nice touch of mistakes everybody does when under pressure. I think this so. Annoying is that I can't drive Tiger in to the building, hold fire and escape after killing first two Shermans. This could be done somehow, because I have dropped my mouth several times when watching Halfies driving in to the building, gettin immo and after few turns its ready to drive away. Think about that. How to create pilbox? Drive cheap tank in to the building and let it be immo

It can be done by filling the roads with overloading hexes. Tank gets cover status while sitting in the remains of the house... mosh.

_____________________________

salute

mosh

If its not rotten, shoot again

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 20

- 2/2/2001 6:24:00 AM

ZinZan

Posts: 113
Joined: 12/9/2000
From: Leicester, England
Status: offline

I've never seen this problem, had many vehicles immobilised but never seen them incapable of firing. Panzer Capatain said However, i must say that i wish that immobilized vehicles, at least some of the time, maintained the ability to fire weapons. I may be completely wrong, but it appears that all immobilized vehicles are restricted from firing. For example, if a tank becomes immobilized due to tread damage, isnt it possible that it could still retain the ability to fire weapons? ------------------ peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

_____________________________

ZinZan <br/> Peace is an extension of war by political means. Plenty of elbow room is pleasanter - and much safer. <br/> Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love by Robert Heinlein.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 21

- 2/2/2001 6:27:00 AM

Panzer Capta

Posts: 268
Joined: 11/24/2000
From: Bedford, NH, USA
Status: offline

Thanks for the clarification guys.

_____________________________

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 22

- 2/2/2001 6:34:00 AM

skukko

Posts: 1928
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

Just came in to my mind, that if Tigers engine is damaged and it is not running, then Tiger can't turn its turret...it works with hydraulics, not electrics...Should this be issue to take in count in future Spwaw? mosh

_____________________________

salute

mosh

If its not rotten, shoot again

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 23

- 2/2/2001 6:45:00 AM

Panzer Capta

Posts: 268
Joined: 11/24/2000
From: Bedford, NH, USA
Status: offline

I know the turrets of some tanks can be turned manually........not sure about the the large beasts though.

_____________________________

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 24

- 2/2/2001 6:50:00 AM

skukko

Posts: 1928
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

Yes I know it is possible in some tanks, but I am not sure about Tiger. It reads in the Tiger manual, but I haven't had time to read it. mosh And manual can be found from the net translated in english. Don't remember right now where I found it, must be in bookmarks on my discettes...

_____________________________

salute

mosh

If its not rotten, shoot again

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 25

- 2/2/2001 8:36:00 AM

BruceAZ

Posts: 608
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: California
Status: offline

I have not had this problem in any game or scenario yet but I do know that the amphibs love to crash buildings. The only way to deal with it was to advance near the buildings then stop and advance one hex at a time to clear them. This will be a problem with my Guadalcanal Campaign as each battle has a number of amphibs. It really increased the level of frustration in the testers...

_____________________________

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 26

- 2/2/2001 11:58:00 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

Bruce AZ, you pinpointed my frustration with vehicle pathing. It's the amtracs in the Iwo Jima scenario that give me fits by their tendency to crash buildings. That's what prompted my post. It's bad enough that my marines are getting cut up in the Japanese crossfire, but when I try to maneuver thru the buildings around Airfield no. 1 and the cluster of buildings near the Quarry, that's when my amtracs have the worst tendency to kamikaze the structures. Drivers panicking under fire and looking for cover anywhere they can? Maybe, but annoying nonetheless.

_____________________________

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 27

- 2/2/2001 8:01:00 PM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline

Somebody wanted to know about manually traversing the turret of a tiger tank...dont know but heres some nice link to the german "panzertruppe": http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzer.htm ---------------------- RockinHarry

_____________________________

RockinHarry in the web:

https://www.facebook.com/harry.zann

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 28

- 2/2/2001 11:52:00 PM

skukko

Posts: 1928
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

Ok Here is Tiger E manual: http://tiger1e.com/fibel/index.html mosh

_____________________________

salute

mosh

If its not rotten, shoot again

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 29

- 2/3/2001 2:05:00 PM

B52g

Posts: 115
Joined: 6/22/2000
From: Youngstown, Ohio, United States
Status: offline

Here is one. Have you ever noticed that after an immobilzed tank becomes repaired and usable again, it sometimes becomes a super tank with super range? I had that happen a couple times. A tank that got routed by arty and ran into a building, then catching up to everybody after only two turns once its fixed. The thing just hauled butt across a huge map and caught up.

_____________________________

John

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 30

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Vehicle pathing...they always seem to find the nearest building!

Page: [1] 2 next > >>