ships running out of fuel

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> ships running out of fuel

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ships running out of fuel - 6/5/2013 10:12:47 PM

mantrain

Posts: 444
Joined: 9/3/2008
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I have very few oilers to replenish, and most of time that TF is not an option.
If not replenish, can I create a TF made of tankers and "support"? or how else to refuel.
Got these subs near Japan also running low on endurance. thanks!

Post #: 1

RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/5/2013 10:28:24 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

I have very few oilers to replenish, and most of time that TF is not an option.
If not replenish, can I create a TF made of tankers and "support"? or how else to refuel.
Got these subs near Japan also running low on endurance. thanks!

Subs can't refuel at sea. Get them to some fuel at a base or lose them.

AOs in Replenishment TFs are underway direct refueling.

A tanker TF won't underway replenish directly from its tanked fuel. It may share its "own" fuel if merged with another compatible TF.

In any TF except a Sub if some ships have fuel you can refuel at sea and spread what there is around, up to a limit. The amounts are controlled in the code. A ship won't give away more than it can spare.

If the ship types agree you can merge ships with fuel with those without and they will auto-share after a turn.

If the ships aren't compatible you can use Escort TF to get them together and share, but you give up combat. This can be dangerous in the wrong place.

You can put a tanker in a port and have ships visit the tanker and take fuel.

You can refuel from a port which has some.

It's very common to transit smaller ships long distances by putting them in a TF with a large ship and having the large one refuel them several times on the way. Again, this does not work with subs.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/5/2013 10:29:13 PM >

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The Moose

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Post #: 2

RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/6/2013 2:33:48 AM

geofflambert

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Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
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Can you get them to an unoccupied island (with a port >0, even if it's technically Japanese? If you can, can you get any kind of a TF containing a company sized unit there without it being sunk? You would also need an AKL or something to carry a itty bitty bit of fuel there.

Anyways, if you still hold Midway, put some fuel there and set it for the homebase of your US subs (or most of them) and never make this mistake again.

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RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/6/2013 3:07:20 AM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Can you get them to an unoccupied island (with a port >0, even if it's technically Japanese? If you can, can you get any kind of a TF containing a company sized unit there without it being sunk? You would also need an AKL or something to carry a itty bitty bit of fuel there.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.

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The Moose

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RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/6/2013 4:57:13 AM

jmalter

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Joined: 10/12/2010
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When set to 'Patrol Zone' ops, a SubTF (& most any other kind of TF) will automatically return to its home port to refuel once it's used all but the minimum needed to get back home. It'll also return to re-arm, after it's used ~90% of its torps. So if your subs are patrolling out of Midway, you'll only need to keep Midway supplied w/ fuel. Of course you'll also need a loaded AS tender disbanded at Midway to re-arm the torpedoes.

Note that when a TF does its auto-return thing, it will refuel/re-arm as best it can, then return to its patrol-zone, even if the sub is due to upgrade or has some damage. You'll need to monitor your subs every turn or three, and manually turn off the PZ and set it to return & disband, if you want to upgrade or repair accrued damage.

Use of 'advance bases' is important for both sides, as refuel/re-arm/repair bases for active combat forces. Ideally, an advance base will be beyond range of enemy bombers, it'll be staffed w/ a bit of NavSupport & AirSupport, it'll have some airgroups for NavSearch, ASW & CAP, it'll have some engrs building its port & airfield (each port & AF increase also increases the local storage capacity for fuel & supply). Most important, it'll host the naval auxiliaries (tenders & repair ships) that support your naval combat units. You must send supply & fuel to these bases in TFs, it's important to keep these TFs sized so they can dock & unload - if the base can only accept 12k tons at its dock, the re-supply TF must conform to that limit.

When pressed to the limit for AO/TK hulls, remember that AK-types can load & deliver fuel (at 50% cargo-capacity penalty).

As your engrs build the base up to its full allowance, it's time to identify the next port in the chain, & move your assets up to the next link. Sometimes the next link is enemy-occupied, well you'll just have to organize & execute an amphibious assault!

< Message edited by jmalter -- 6/6/2013 6:13:40 AM >

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RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/6/2013 1:41:25 PM

Bullwinkle58

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I control the re-patrol issue by setting every sub to Disband as soon as it leaves on patrol. When it comes home it dumps to the port and is visible when I sort-by-sub in the Ships list. I don't like to manage by TF very much. It doesn't leave unless I order it to go out. I don't send subs to the same patrol zones over and over.

Every turn I also open the Ships list, turn off all classes but subs, sort by endurance (far left column), scroll to the bottom, and look at everybody in red numbers to make sure they're almost home. If they need help or re-routing I do it then.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/6/2013 3:30:17 PM >

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The Moose

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RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/6/2013 3:03:41 PM

HexHead

Posts: 464
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From: I'm from New Hampshire; I only work in cyberspace
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quote:

Of course you'll also need a loaded AS tender disbanded at Midway to re-arm the torpedoes.

Quite recently, on another thread, Alfred said Aux's did not need to be loaded.

I have been loading Aux's - doesn't really hurt or hinder me, but it would be nice to nail this down.

Thx,
HH

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"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
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Post #: 7

RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/6/2013 5:08:34 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Can you get them to an unoccupied island (with a port >0, even if it's technically Japanese? If you can, can you get any kind of a TF containing a company sized unit there without it being sunk? You would also need an AKL or something to carry a itty bitty bit of fuel there.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.

I'm saying capture an unoccupied island (temporarily) that has a port of at least level 1, put a little fuel there and skeddadle.

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RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/6/2013 5:35:20 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Can you get them to an unoccupied island (with a port >0, even if it's technically Japanese? If you can, can you get any kind of a TF containing a company sized unit there without it being sunk? You would also need an AKL or something to carry a itty bitty bit of fuel there.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.

I'm saying capture an unoccupied island (temporarily) that has a port of at least level 1, put a little fuel there and skeddadle.

Oh. I didn't get the bring troops part.

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The Moose

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Post #: 9

RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/7/2013 6:31:56 AM

jmalter

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Joined: 10/12/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HexHead

quote:

Of course you'll also need a loaded AS tender disbanded at Midway to re-arm the torpedoes.

Quite recently, on another thread, Alfred said Aux's did not need to be loaded.
I have been loading Aux's - doesn't really hurt or hinder me, but it would be nice to nail this down.
Thx,
HH

I doubt Alfred said precisely that, can you give a link to his post?

Auxiliaries might be able to do repairs on other ships, but AV/AVD/AVP types need to have loaded supply to repair/maintain floatplanes. Auxiliaries need loaded supply to re-arm other ships. If your ships are re-arming at ports w/ unsupplied tenders, they're getting their ammo from the port (perhaps aided by available Naval Support squads) - in which case the tenders should load up & move out to an advanced base.

(in reply to HexHead)

Post #: 10

RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/7/2013 2:27:55 PM

Alfred

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Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

quote:

ORIGINAL: HexHead

quote:

Of course you'll also need a loaded AS tender disbanded at Midway to re-arm the torpedoes.

Quite recently, on another thread, Alfred said Aux's did not need to be loaded.
I have been loading Aux's - doesn't really hurt or hinder me, but it would be nice to nail this down.
Thx,
HH

I doubt Alfred said precisely that, can you give a link to his post?

Auxiliaries might be able to do repairs on other ships, but AV/AVD/AVP types need to have loaded supply to repair/maintain floatplanes. Auxiliaries need loaded supply to re-arm other ships. If your ships are re-arming at ports w/ unsupplied tenders, they're getting their ammo from the port (perhaps aided by available Naval Support squads) - in which case the tenders should load up & move out to an advanced base.

Yes ... and No.

1. Tenders must be loaded with supply if they are to be used as a source for rearming the relevant ships.

2. No supply is expended in repairing ships. Hence tenders do not need to have any onboard supply to effect relevant repairs to relevant ships.

3. Maintenance/repair of aircraft does require supply. Accordingly maintenance/repair of seaplanes/floatplanes needs access to supply but the source of supply can be either from the base supply depot or the onboard supply of a relevant tender (AV, AVD, AVP).

Read this thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2382596&mpage=1&key=tenders�

Alfred

(in reply to jmalter)

Post #: 11

RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/7/2013 4:15:56 PM

HexHead

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From: I'm from New Hampshire; I only work in cyberspace
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jmalter, Alfred - thanks for the clarification and thread link.

I knew there was something I recollected, however imperfectly...

I gotta brush up on rearming, anyway. Right now I put AEs out there and hope for the best.

Thx,
HH

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"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
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Post #: 12

RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/7/2013 9:17:52 PM

geofflambert

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From: St. Louis
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Other examples include:

Some ACMs have the capacity to carry mines and be used as mine layers, but many do not. I believe they accomplish mine field maintenance by capturing mines that have broken loose of their moorings and return them to where they belong.

AEs and AKEs better be loaded with supply or they will be useless.

For your AVs etc. "supply" includes aviation fuel. Your planes will stop flying without it.

Large caliber ammunition cannot be loaded in most ports, and this is because of the lack of the proper loading equipment (at least in part). However you can load your AEs and AKEs in the selfsame ports and then load your CAs and BBs etc. because these ships have the correct equipment.

I think something similar applies to ASs.

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Post #: 13

RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/7/2013 10:07:08 PM

HexHead

Posts: 464
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From: I'm from New Hampshire; I only work in cyberspace
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"...and a huge Gorn thanks to our guest host!"

That's some good info there. Yes, AFAIK, if you have an AS in port, you can arm subs with torps.

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"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 14

RE: ships running out of fuel - 6/8/2013 5:03:00 AM

jmalter

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Joined: 10/12/2010
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similar to ports, AE/AKEs are limited by their tonnage as to what ammo they can provide - smaller AEs and AKEs won't be providing you w/ 16" shells.

also similar to ports, they are subject to daily 'ops limits' - a pair of AEs might not be able to fully re-arm 6 BBs in one day.

TFs in need of re-supply have ops limits, too - currently I'm shuttling CV TFs in&out of Guam, and there's not enough time in the day to re-arm the CV mission-count & refuel in one turn.

(in reply to HexHead)

Post #: 15