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A second look - 9/8/2013 6:25:17 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline
I decided to give the game a try again with the new 1.02 patch. I have to say, that the game feel much more polished. I am truely estatic about the new ranges of aircraft in the game. Much better . The only minor gripe I have about the AC is that they should be able to attack AND return to base in the same turn. Matter of fact I would say they they HAVE to return to an AF or be destroyed. Basicly there should only be one point of ammo. So I am hopeful that this could be addressed in a future patch.

I started the GC and went 3-4 scenerios in so far. I really do not like the deployment system. As an historical game, your troops should be where they historically like the way things are set up in the first few scenerios. Or at least have an option where you can have a freeform setup or a historical one. Kind of ruins the imerssion for me.

The other glaring issue for me is the suppy rules. I had a Russin armored division in both the first and second scenerios run through the German lines and head deep into German territory. All by itself I might add. In both cases I sent troops to track the divison down. After a few turns of cat and mouse (why is FoW on hexes that I own behind my lines anyway? Somehow I think SOMEONE would have let the OKH know where a Russian armor division was . I mean after all the hexes behind my line are not really empty, they are full of support/supply/etc. units so someone should be able to let me know where an entire division is) I find the damn thing. So I think it MUST be out of fuel by now after all the moving around, but no . It still has 3/4s of it fuel stores???? So we have a Russian armored division that have been moving around for days a 100 clicks away from from the front yet still has 3/4s of it's fuel? Even if the unit does not move to a different hex at all it should still use fuel.

So there are still these, what I consider major, issues with the game.

1. Any hex that A German/Russian unit passes through SHOULD ALWAYS be visable to the owners side. Maybe even in the hexes aroud it too. There should be no way a Russian (or German) unit at this game scale be running around behind the opposing line without knowing where it is. We are talking about divisions not commando squads.

2. If a unit DOES run off behind the front lines then there should be some pentility for doing this. Maybe treat them as if there were units surrounding them even it there are none actually next to it. Or even better actually require units to trace a supply path to the map edge/major city/etc. before allowing refits. Also it SHOULD be a LOT harder for a frigging division to slip between units to even do this to start with.

Of course in the 2nd scenerio when this happened, I did leave a big enough gap for the division to go through. I just did not expect an entire division to commit suicide like that. It was definately NOT something a human player would have done so it is my fault for over estimating the AI in the game lol. But I still should have know where it was rather than have to send AC and units to find the damn thing to kill it.

3. Why are there ANY Russian aircraft in the begining scenerios? Very ahistorical if you ask me. Also why is the Ruminian owned AC limited with their range? They are flying the same AC as the Germans yet they can only move a few hexes versus the Germans can fly anywhere. Did the Germans put governors on the plane's engines when they gave them to the Ruminians?

Do not get me worg, Matrix HAS improved the game. So I am pretty sure it will continue to improve as time goes on.
Post #: 1
RE: A second look - 12/13/2013 11:53:05 PM   
artofwar85

 

Posts: 109
Joined: 5/8/2010
Status: offline
Nowadays and it has been for a few years now - ANY game one purchases should Actually not be bought until about 1 year AFTER it has been played by the general public because this allows you as a first time user the benefit of enjoying the game after the community has worked out many pathetic tweaks such as game crashes, glitches, and unplayable type of situations. Once many patches have been made for the game then is the time to play it so you don't waste your time playing a game that is really not finished nor do you loose the newness of the game caused by playing it before it is actually enjoyable to its potential.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 2
RE: A second look - 12/14/2013 3:01:18 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
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quote:

ORIGINAL: artofwar85

Nowadays and it has been for a few years now - ANY game one purchases should Actually not be bought until about 1 year AFTER it has been played by the general public because this allows you as a first time user the benefit of enjoying the game after the community has worked out many pathetic tweaks such as game crashes, glitches, and unplayable type of situations. Once many patches have been made for the game then is the time to play it so you don't waste your time playing a game that is really not finished nor do you loose the newness of the game caused by playing it before it is actually enjoyable to its potential.


Sadly, this is the truth. I am a dedicated player but I have stopped buying most new games and I only buy a title if:

1. It comes from a developer with a good track record.
2. There are lots of positive posts in the forum.
3. Modders are making new scenarios etc.



_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to artofwar85)
Post #: 3
RE: A second look - 12/14/2013 7:19:37 PM   
tombo

 

Posts: 356
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline
....so what's the verdict from above. Is game ready for purchase?


(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 4
RE: A second look - 12/14/2013 8:14:41 PM   
Templer_12


Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
1. It comes from a developer with a good track record.
2. There are lots of positive posts in the forum.
3. Modders are making new scenarios etc.

1. It comes from a developer with a good track record.
The developer do have only one game, Operation Barbarossa - The Struggle for Russia, on his list.
Hard to track.
The support of this predecessor must only be described as exemplary and magnificent.
In addition to regular forum presence with guidance and help, the German developer Ronald Wendt submitted several free scenarios, even long after the release date.

2. There are lots of positive posts in the forum.
Well positive posts come from players who like the game (like it for many different reasons - rational and irrational reasons), have fun with it.
That says nothing about the qualities of the game. But most important, that's absolute no guarantee that you will like the game!

3. Modders are making new scenarios etc.
Oh yes, if you love a game, if you love a game system, you want to pick up more.
But who will create mods if nobody buys the game?

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 5
RE: A second look - 12/14/2013 8:18:38 PM   
Templer_12


Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tombo
....so what's the verdict from above. Is game ready for purchase?


What can I say to this?
I say yes! But I like the game, therefore my verdict is subjective.

(in reply to tombo)
Post #: 6
RE: A second look - 12/14/2013 9:02:39 PM   
Templer_12


Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I decided to give the game a try again with the new 1.02 patch. I have to say, that the game feel much more polished. I am truely estatic about the new ranges of aircraft in the game. Much better . The only minor gripe I have about the AC is that they should be able to attack AND return to base in the same turn. Matter of fact I would say they they HAVE to return to an AF or be destroyed. Basicly there should only be one point of ammo. So I am hopeful that this could be addressed in a future patch.

I started the GC and went 3-4 scenerios in so far. I really do not like the deployment system. As an historical game, your troops should be where they historically like the way things are set up in the first few scenerios. Or at least have an option where you can have a freeform setup or a historical one. Kind of ruins the imerssion for me.

The other glaring issue for me is the suppy rules. I had a Russin armored division in both the first and second scenerios run through the German lines and head deep into German territory. All by itself I might add. In both cases I sent troops to track the divison down. After a few turns of cat and mouse (why is FoW on hexes that I own behind my lines anyway? Somehow I think SOMEONE would have let the OKH know where a Russian armor division was . I mean after all the hexes behind my line are not really empty, they are full of support/supply/etc. units so someone should be able to let me know where an entire division is) I find the damn thing. So I think it MUST be out of fuel by now after all the moving around, but no . It still has 3/4s of it fuel stores???? So we have a Russian armored division that have been moving around for days a 100 clicks away from from the front yet still has 3/4s of it's fuel? Even if the unit does not move to a different hex at all it should still use fuel.

So there are still these, what I consider major, issues with the game.

1. Any hex that A German/Russian unit passes through SHOULD ALWAYS be visable to the owners side. Maybe even in the hexes aroud it too. There should be no way a Russian (or German) unit at this game scale be running around behind the opposing line without knowing where it is. We are talking about divisions not commando squads.

2. If a unit DOES run off behind the front lines then there should be some pentility for doing this. Maybe treat them as if there were units surrounding them even it there are none actually next to it. Or even better actually require units to trace a supply path to the map edge/major city/etc. before allowing refits. Also it SHOULD be a LOT harder for a frigging division to slip between units to even do this to start with.

Of course in the 2nd scenerio when this happened, I did leave a big enough gap for the division to go through. I just did not expect an entire division to commit suicide like that. It was definately NOT something a human player would have done so it is my fault for over estimating the AI in the game lol. But I still should have know where it was rather than have to send AC and units to find the damn thing to kill it.

3. Why are there ANY Russian aircraft in the begining scenerios? Very ahistorical if you ask me. Also why is the Ruminian owned AC limited with their range? They are flying the same AC as the Germans yet they can only move a few hexes versus the Germans can fly anywhere. Did the Germans put governors on the plane's engines when they gave them to the Ruminians?

Do not get me worg, Matrix HAS improved the game. So I am pretty sure it will continue to improve as time goes on.

@ Numdydar,

give us a break now on this!

Your "major" issues with the game are probably decisions that have defined for the sake of playability by the developers.

Germany at War: Barbarossa 1941 has been designed from the beginning as a beer and pretzels game, and not as historically accurate as possible simulation such as : Command Ops or WitE.

Germany at War: Barbarossa 1941 is a game with easy access for people have a "half hour" time and want to check out a bit there strategic / tactical / operational skills. And even to study a manual that is thick as a phone book.

Now in addition a quote by Erik :
quote:

ORIGINAL:  Erik Rutins

Have you already read the developer's notes here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3370923

I think for anyone who plays and enjoys Panzer Corps, this release should be an easy decision.  If you would enjoy another Panzer Corps release, you will enjoy this one.  They are different games, each with their own strengths, but I think it would be almost a 100% guarantee given the gameplay that if you enjoy one you'll enjoy the other.  I see GAW as a somewhat more historical take on the Panzer General style of gaming.  A bit less puzzle oriented and a bit less "what if" with real named units and maps at a consistent scale, along with a large campaign that allows you to choose the course of Operation Barbarossa.

Regards,

- Erik



Numdydar 1. Any hex that A German/Russian unit passes through SHOULD ALWAYS be visable to the owners side. Maybe even in the hexes aroud it too. There should be no way a Russian (or German) unit at this game scale be running around behind the opposing line without knowing where it is. We are talking about divisions not commando squads.
No, not at all!
The fact that the fog of war arises again and again keep the player unsure if there are still hide enemy units .
That way you 'll always faced with the question of whether you leave units to guard your objects or not.
We are talking of a beer and pretzel game – not of a historical simulation!

Numdydar 2. If a unit DOES run off behind the front lines then there should be some pentility for doing this. Maybe treat them as if there were units surrounding them even it there are none actually next to it. Or even better actually require units to trace a supply path to the map edge/major city/etc. before allowing refits. Also it SHOULD be a LOT harder for a frigging division to slip between units to even do this to start with.
Same here, I don’t think it’s absolutely necessary. Let the designers decide. They made a good job so far.

Numdydar 3. Why are there ANY Russian aircraft in the begining scenerios? Very ahistorical if you ask me. Also why is the Ruminian owned AC limited with their range? They are flying the same AC as the Germans yet they can only move a few hexes versus the Germans can fly anywhere. Did the Germans put governors on the plane's engines when they gave them to the Ruminians?
Why? Because some of the designers decision are made to increase the games fun.
Again, Germany at War: Barbarossa 1941 is a beer and pretzel game -  no historical simulation!

Chess is considered by many as a war game.
Now I'm complaining about the fact that towers themselves can’t move. How unrealistic!

A Ford is a great car, and who wants to pimp it for any reasons – go for it!
Make it visually look more to your taste, make it a little more powerful.
But you can’t make a Indy car out of your Ford - this does not work!

Germany at War: Barbarossa 1941 is beer and pretzels – and a damm good one!

I 'm sure the developer developed his game. But certainly nothing in the direction as you pretend here.
You have not understood the reason for the game existence.

< Message edited by Templer -- 12/14/2013 10:09:39 PM >

(in reply to Templer_12)
Post #: 7
RE: A second look - 12/14/2013 10:33:17 PM   
artofwar85

 

Posts: 109
Joined: 5/8/2010
Status: offline
Redmarkus4 I need to check the forums what a dummy I don't do that I just buy it if it is from like Matrix games and some patches have come out. ..

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 8
RE: A second look - 12/16/2013 2:23:15 AM   
Ralph1961


Posts: 184
Joined: 10/4/2001
Status: offline
I purchased the game back in September and I have played around with it in what very little free time that I have.
In my opinion it is a nice beer and pretzel addition to the Matrix library. I am in the midst of the Grand Campaign and the difficulty does ramp up. I would rate the game as a step up from Panzer Corp as far as strategy is concerned. Panzer Corp is a prettier game and more polished title.
I say give it a try! I would like to see DLC in 2014.

(in reply to artofwar85)
Post #: 9
RE: A second look - 12/16/2013 4:58:13 PM   
Templer_12


Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ralph Harper

I purchased the game back in September and I have played around with it in what very little free time that I have.
In my opinion it is a nice beer and pretzel addition to the Matrix library. I am in the midst of the Grand Campaign and the difficulty does ramp up. I would rate the game as a step up from Panzer Corp as far as strategy is concerned. Panzer Corp is a prettier game and more polished title.
I say give it a try! I would like to see DLC in 2014.

You said it perfectly in a few words!

I would also appreciate a DLC in 2014, perhaps another front with other units?
But before that, please have a bit of work on the current version.

And yes, guys, jump in and discover how much fun you can get out of it.
Ralph Harper hit the point above.
Give the game a fair chance!

(in reply to Ralph1961)
Post #: 10
RE: A second look - 12/26/2013 5:33:13 PM   
Vease101

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 10/9/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Templer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ralph Harper

I purchased the game back in September and I have played around with it in what very little free time that I have.
In my opinion it is a nice beer and pretzel addition to the Matrix library. I am in the midst of the Grand Campaign and the difficulty does ramp up. I would rate the game as a step up from Panzer Corp as far as strategy is concerned. Panzer Corp is a prettier game and more polished title.
I say give it a try! I would like to see DLC in 2014.

You said it perfectly in a few words!

I would also appreciate a DLC in 2014, perhaps another front with other units?
But before that, please have a bit of work on the current version.

And yes, guys, jump in and discover how much fun you can get out of it.
Ralph Harper hit the point above.
Give the game a fair chance!


I agree that this is an excellent game but sadly there are reasons why people will not purchase it -

A) There is no demo, so you have to make an educated guess as to whether or not you might like it

B) The gameplay superficially looks just like Panzer Corps but with worse graphics, this is going to be a big deal to some people

C) The lack of Forum activity, again some people will see a forum with no mods and days on end without posts and assume no one is interested in the game so it must be bad

Its not so easy to tell people to buy a game on trust just because you or I happen to like it...

(in reply to Templer_12)
Post #: 11
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