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Looking for an opponent - 7/31/2013 4:54:18 AM   
Dangun

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline 		I am looking for an opponent for my first PBEM or server game.
I'd prefer one of the 10-17 turn scenarios, since I am new at this and not likely to be any good at this.
Either side is OK.

Cheers
Post #: 1
RE: Looking for an opponent - 7/31/2013 7:05:52 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Everyone is good at this Dragon. Some key things to remember are to create a defense line along the luga first and foremost. you gotta dig in fast there. Appoint the best possible officer and add sapper regts to the HQs along this front. your goal isn't to defend the river but to prevent my tanks from breaking thru without infantry. The key mistake for new players is timing the withdrawals. Basic rule is if infantry and armor can both attack you in the first 8 turns you need to be elsewhere. Keep your main forces retreating just out of the enemy infantries attack range and force the tanks to bleed themselves hitting you instead of moving past you. Do this by using screening forces in favorable terrain while your main line digs in along river lines further back. Tanks are fairly weak when out of supply so any chance you get to cut em off for a turn pays off later. Get your air units back asap beyond Novgorod and let em recover before moving them up. in the far north on the top of the map youll see a lake and 3 defendable hexes. build fort zones in the 3 and get units into those hexes asyour absolute first priority - the germans cant break that line if you fort it fast enuff. Create a line Novgorod to the coast - use 2 army hqs with 2 sapper rgts each and the absolute top generals in your army theres a lake below Novgorod.. fortify the river line below it to prevent the enemy flanking you. You've interior lines make good use of them by using rail movement to reinforce wherever you see enemy tanks in striking range. When defending tight areas make sure your units have room to retreat if they violate stacking they route. Watch your units morale carefully units with low morale need to be at the rear digging defenses.

(in reply to Dangun)
Post #: 2
RE: Looking for an opponent - 7/31/2013 7:52:30 AM   
Dangun

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks Hermann. I only just saw this, so I'll have a closer look at the map with your notes, on turn 2.

Cheers

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 3
RE: Looking for an opponent - 7/31/2013 9:00:32 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		sure thing you're doing pretty well you left just enuff out there to hold me up

(in reply to Dangun)
Post #: 4
RE: Looking for an opponent - 7/31/2013 10:47:08 AM   
Dangun

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann
The key mistake for new players is timing the withdrawals. Basic rule is if infantry and armor can both attack you in the first 8 turns you need to be elsewhere.


Having played 10-15 scenarios against the software's AI, and discovering that the AI is quite bad particularly for the GHC, I see the biggest risk as underestimating how fast a human GHC can advance.

< Message edited by Dangun -- 7/31/2013 10:53:02 AM >

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 5
RE: Looking for an opponent - 7/31/2013 11:16:57 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		a few well placed skirmishers can slow em bad the core thing for the germans is to close up with infantry, rest the armor a turn and smash thru with inf to use that tank movement. any Russian player that waits around after the inf arrive is in for a bloody nose. my supply is still at riga after next turn ill probly hit you pretty hard germans have enough fuel at games start to move 2 turns then a couple more at half fuel till supply catches up - not enough to get through you before your turn 4 releases

(in reply to Dangun)
Post #: 6
RE: Looking for an opponent - 7/31/2013 12:58:37 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		nice fall back you coulda left a holding force on the river though my inf woulda had to hit on the move, youre wide open south of Novgorod but it would take me a minute to exploit it. That luga line is a draw but its only really effective in the campaign when you've more troops. any turn you aren't digging in on the Novgorod to the coast line and the 3-4 hexes south of lake illmen is bad. especially the mountain hexes. youre still in great shape though your troops appear to be in good order failing to fortify those 3 hexes north of lake peipus will cost you dearly.

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 7
RE: Looking for an opponent - 7/31/2013 4:56:13 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		nice job as we get into tighter areas you want to put units in reserve status to help in the fights =)

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 8
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/4/2013 4:17:10 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		if you wanna switch sides an start over let me know =)

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 9
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/4/2013 6:49:05 AM   
Dangun

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline 		Are most of the scenarios like this from the SHC's point of view?

I think that I have learned three, no, **edit** four things:
1) a real player moves a lot faster than the AI - obvious, I even predicted that one;
2) it will take a couple of run throughs to know at what turn the GHC arrives where, so that the defenses can be occupied 2-3 turns ahead of that and fortifications built;
3) a SHC player should always opt for the fog-fo-war option because its probably more of a penalty for attacked compared to defender.
4) ** edit ** made a mistake with Finland and not noticing that Leningrad consists of 5 hexes

I'm not sure I've learnt very much about placing factors, the GHC seems to be too mobile and have too many options, for the exact placement of defenders to matter all that much.

I'm not sure what I've missed in the minutiae like: fiddling with air doctrine; redundant HQs; attached support units; changing leaders about; or changing unit assignments. It seems difficult to judge by the results whether this type of tweak has any significant effect.

But i'd be interested in knowing your thoughts...

Cheers

** edit ** PS: Curious factoid, I count that I have 25 HQs on the map, and half of them don't seem to do anything.

< Message edited by Dangun -- 8/4/2013 8:54:02 AM >

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 10
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/4/2013 2:16:57 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Congratulations you have begun to learn the game!

Take Hermann up on the offer to switch sides and play again. It is the best way to learn what you are doing because you will then see it from both sides. You can also learn by seeing what your opponent does on both sides of the scenario.

(in reply to Dangun)
Post #: 11
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/4/2013 4:16:47 PM   
Dangun

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline 		I plan on it.

It is an excellent way to learn about movement, supply and timing.

But its difficult to learn about the off-map management (air doctrine, unit assignments, leaders, etc.), because you can't see it going on.

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 12
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/4/2013 10:57:23 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		You can use the menu to examine the different officers. HQs are very effective if you use the proper attachments and set your reserves properly. The key to defeating tanks is fortifying in depth ( don't overstack or you route yourself. You are very shy about attacking tank units stink on defense and take serious losses on retreat - if you hve the odds kill everything in sight, use the fortified zones to protect Leningrad and the long flank on the svir if the enemy breaks through - you really, really have to make an absolute priority immediately of fortifying the 3 hexes north of lake ladoga. Putting everything on a single line in that area is futile keep at least 3 separate lines fortifying - don't overburden your hqs and make sure they've sappers attached and an officer with high morale, organization and infantry. if you anticipate tanks don't forget to attach at units. Concentrating a defense ( or an attack for that matter is suicide ) spread the enemy and constantly alter your point of effort offensively and defensively as you saw when I broke through south of lake illmen then attacked the luga. once the enemy passes your defenses on the luga you have to pull out those troops would've been more valuable digging 2nd and 3rd line defenses in front of me than surrendering behind me........ Once you abandandoned the southern sector you allowed me to concentrate up north. again don't concentrate in a campaign a german will bag you. ATTACK !!!! don't hesitate to attack wherever possible when the enemy approaches a large grouping with weak forces.

(in reply to Dangun)
Post #: 13
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/4/2013 11:01:50 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		air doctrine early war for the Russians is coordinating rail and interdiction. Set up you fighters near defensive battles along with ground attack units but focus the bombers on interdiction. you can do that by setting the percent required to fly higher for other combat missions aside from ground support and interdiction. keep your recon missons going spotted units take heavier losses and keep all your transpot units in the proper GHQ air HQs set on night missions to keep your partisans active Rail breaks hurt bad early game as supply is tight.


by coordination I mean anticipate an enemy attack - use rail to get blocking forces there . at this point you know you will force him to re deploy his troops to another area. that's where you want those bombers on interdiction. make sure you use rail to meet his new attack as well. just bear in mind anytime he has to redeploy you can cause him lost time and casualties

< Message edited by Hermann -- 8/4/2013 11:05:01 PM >

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 14
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/4/2013 11:09:30 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		the main german weaknes in the north is the delay between his tanks and inf the first 4-5 turns you gotta hurt his tanks and keep em out of supply as much as possible before the inf shows that give you time to fort up.

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 15
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/5/2013 5:48:38 AM   
Dangun

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline 		OK, I understand that. Just a couple of follow up questions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann
you really, really have to make an absolute priority immediately of fortifying the 3 hexes north of lake ladoga.


How do you do this, because the Soviet units in the far north are frozen until about turn 3 and then immediately under attack from the Finns? Or do you mean Lake Peipus or Lake Pskov rather than Lake Lagoda? All three have important hexes just north of them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann
the main German weakness in the north is the delay between his tanks and inf the first 4-5 turns


I noticed during the game that there was a brief pause on turn 4 as the panzers gather just north of Pskov. What I didn't understand was how they seemed to charge up to their 30+ movement rate, which they have for the first two turns. How did you charge them up?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann
HQs are very effective if you use the proper attachments and set your reserves properly...


Sadly, I don't really know what this means? **edit** just read about "reserve mode" but unsure as to what the impact is.

I have 187 admin points, and although there is a section about them in the manual, I don't really understand what they are for.

Apologies for all the questions.

Cheers

< Message edited by Dangun -- 8/5/2013 7:15:06 AM >

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 16
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/5/2013 10:22:46 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		ya caught me half asleep theres a thing called fortified zones. You pay admin points for them and they help inf units fortify faster. use em with weak and healing units at least 10 hexes behind the frontline for the best effect. they build attached to stavka so you have to make sure to attach em to the 7th independent army hq, make sure the HQ has a sapper regiment attached - use admin points to build it also beef up the attachments for artily aa etc. you can use rail movement to pull units into the 2 lower hoxes get em there and detrain then they go inactive and you cant move them but the extra turns building forts helps tons. forts don't build as step 1 step 2 theyre points based and the points accrue so a unit may build .75 one turn and the next turn he will suddenly be 3 levels up. You generals organization rating helps to build them and his morale and inf ratings help defend. the entire game is based on morale, movement, losses everything works around morale. german morale averages 70 at game start and soviet under 30 that's why they cant move turn 1.

the HQ BUILD UP function is based on your hqs distance from a rail line carrying supply. the hq spends all its accumulated supply and gives it to subordinated units you can also use transports to carry fuel or supply to your units but theyre very susceptible to loss.


I noticed you had units on reserve this turn. attachments are added to your headquarters and add strength to any attached unit within range. set up a german scenario sometime and look at the combat value and manpower add an attachment and youll notice an immediate increase that goes the same with hq attachments temporary increase in strength theres aa units that negate enemy air enginers that help build forts etc.. you examine your situation and add the proper attachments

(in reply to Dangun)
Post #: 17
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/5/2013 10:24:15 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		units on reserve mode force an attacker to spend extra points on set attacks rather than hitting on the fly and moving fast


remember when using fort zones they can be used to delay by taking advantage of terrain or as part of a prepared defense in a tight area like a major defense or small area like ladoga remember to disband the fort unit and replace it with combat units before the baddies get there

< Message edited by Hermann -- 8/5/2013 10:27:18 AM >

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 18
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/5/2013 1:57:22 PM   
Dangun

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann
theres a thing called fortified zones


Thanks. Three good pointers.
I knew the admin points were there for some reason. Fortified zones, reserves, and support sappers are three things I need to learn about because they would all help the Soviets.

Cheers

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 19
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/8/2013 2:57:54 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		That's it in a nutshell =). Never let yourself get caught by inf and tanks together unless you are in a fortified zone defending in depth with protected flanks.

(in reply to Dangun)
Post #: 20
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/8/2013 3:36:19 AM   
Dangun

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline 		Would you like a return game, 'road to Leningrad' with me as the Germans?
Or in other words... now that you've demonstrated to me what I didn't know about defense, it would be great if you could show me what I don't know about attack! :)

(I understand that I probably get a lot more out of these games than you do, but it is a good learning experience.)

Cheers

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 21
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/11/2013 2:13:20 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		any time either side ill run ya through gj fighting me to a draw though =))) from the map it looked pretty grim

(in reply to Dangun)
Post #: 22
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/11/2013 6:40:31 AM   
Dangun

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline 		Please suggest a scenario that suits you and I'd very much like some feedback on me playing the GHC.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann
through gj fighting me to a draw though =))) from the map it looked pretty grim


I think you kindly left Leningrad un-assaulted. And i've noticed in the few games I've played against the AI that the GHC victory conditions are harder to get than the SHC.

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 23
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/11/2013 9:53:18 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		couldn't get Leningrad isolated theres a port on the east side my finns got next to it but couldn't attack and my armor was 1 turn from taking it. Leningrad isn't out of supply till that port falls and its useless to attack it. I captured the city but that didn't help much. kiev scenario is tough as axis. stay on the move but don't get greedy all you have to do is prevent me from fortifying in front of you especially along rivers. Russians have serous offensive potential and sending out lone tank divs is suicide. keep the advances simple and clean small pockets and advance to the next river =)

(in reply to Dangun)
Post #: 24
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/11/2013 10:40:51 AM   
Dangun

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann

couldn't get Leningrad isolated theres a port on the east side my finns got next to it but couldn't attack and my armor was 1 turn from taking it. Leningrad isn't out of supply till that port falls and its useless to attack it.


Interesting. I didn't know that at all.
I guess I hadn't thought through why Leningrad was in supply.

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 25
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/11/2013 1:04:57 PM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		yup that's the whole objective of the scenario - beginners luck I guess it was the one hex you were defending =)))

(in reply to Dangun)
Post #: 26
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/12/2013 6:09:48 AM   
Dangun

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline 		After much internal debate I finished the first turn.

I must admit that I looked at a few AAR and they all seem to describe a "Lwow pocket." My first thought was to imitate one of these. But when I loaded up the game there are all these 6 factor armor units in the way. So I tried, but looking at all of the units in and just outside the pocket, I don't think the pocket holds.

The second thing I noticed was that the low odds attack are hard to judge. At least once I took a 3.5:1/4:1 only to have to redo it again at better odds.

I think a lot more can/will go wring as the attacking player :)

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 27
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/12/2013 9:53:33 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		the Lvov pocket is choreographed you have to do it in just the right sequence using the 3 units east of the river to bump the tank unit on the river away. then hit the cavalry unit out of the way and a couple at guns and youll see a path open up takes practice

(in reply to Dangun)
Post #: 28
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/12/2013 9:56:14 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		against most vets not closing Lvov is suicide Im a bit more easy going and I walk out instead of railing out and forting. theres a limited version that breaks the rail connection I prefer.

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 29
RE: Looking for an opponent - 8/13/2013 4:46:01 AM   
Dangun

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline 		OK, turn done and I've tried to close the Lwow pocket again.

I had two questions you might be able to help me with.

4 new panzer units appear on the border north of Krakow this turn, but I was unable to rail move them. Is that normal?

I seem to be having trouble understanding attacks. I had 33 factors of panzer sitting 3 hexes east of Tarnopol attacking a clear hex with 3 factors defending it. It took 3 attacks to dislodge the stack. It was sitting in a number 2 fortification but still? There seems to be a greater variability of combat results than I remember from other similar board games.

**edit** I just thought of a third question. I received 3 white inf reinforcements on turn 2 labelled OKH but seemingly without an HQ. I should assign them to an HQ? Shouldn't I?


< Message edited by Dangun -- 8/13/2013 8:04:38 AM >

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 30
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