Which Version to Use

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Which Version to Use

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Which Version to Use - 1/9/2015 6:04:26 PM

mmarquo

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Joined: 9/26/2000
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I am currently using the "official" 3.3.0.6 version; yet I am reading about Opart4 and higher; I managed to get 3.4.0.202 or 3XBb. The 3.4.0.202 opens Ardennes and Kharkov (as well as the other scenarios) - but the game seem much different: i.e. no battle planning possible? I am at a loss to understand which version I should be playing with for which scenarios; any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Post #: 1

RE: Which Version to Use - 1/9/2015 6:57:49 PM

Oberst_Klink

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From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

I am currently using the "official" 3.3.0.6 version; yet I am reading about Opart4 and higher; I managed to get 3.4.0.202 or 3XBb. The 3.4.0.202 opens Ardennes and Kharkov (as well as the other scenarios) - but the game seem much different: i.e. no battle planning possible? I am at a loss to understand which version I should be playing with for which scenarios; any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

There's the battle planer in 3.4 and 3XBb.exe, too. Regarding the changes, notably supply etc. in 3.4 and the RBC improved combat routine and the AAA bug-fix in 3XBb.exe, read the threads I posted before. If you need more details, just PM or email me, the kind Oberst Wilhelm Klink :)

Klink, Oberst

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RE: Which Version to Use - 1/9/2015 9:51:47 PM

ogar

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@Marquo,

Matrix cites 3.4.0.202 as the current version, and I think that's the minimum you should be playing (unless you & opponent agree on an older variant like ACOW or ...). I use 3xB (an unofficial mod of 3.4.0.202) and am very happy with the results, as it does everything 3.4.0.202 does plus 'fixes the broken anti-air ' and adjusts the retreat-from-combat slightly (thus preventing fortified units from almost never retreating).

Version 3.4.0.202 takes a while to get used to its look, and use. Do you have the What's New manual sent with 3.4.0.202 ? That can help explain some of the new changes. As Klink wrote, 3.4.0.202 does have the Battle Planner. It does look a little different,and reflects some of the changes outlined in the What's New document. You may also need to adjust some of the display settings for 3.4.0.202, such as ToolTips Delay. These new settings form a new screen, sort of page #3, along the old familiar, Fog of War, High Supply, etc. settings. Just click on the settings icon before starting a game or you can find these under the Play sub-menu in the header bar (File Play View Options Sound Help) which displays just above the scenario map.

HTH

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)

Post #: 3

RE: Which Version to Use - 1/9/2015 9:54:56 PM

Curtis Lemay

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From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

I am currently using the "official" 3.3.0.6 version; yet I am reading about Opart4 and higher; I managed to get 3.4.0.202 or 3XBb. The 3.4.0.202 opens Ardennes and Kharkov (as well as the other scenarios) - but the game seem much different: i.e. no battle planning possible? I am at a loss to understand which version I should be playing with for which scenarios; any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

There are a couple of new features in 3.4 that many veteran players like to turn off: "Tool Tips" and "Skipping the Movement Popup".

See the What's New document in the main menu. Locate item 13 in section IX of the 3.4 update documentation:

Select "Classic Defaults". This will turn both off.

Alternately, read about items 38 (Tool Tips) and item 40 (Skipping the Movement Popup) in that same section IX in case you would like to continue to use them.

(in reply to mmarquo)

Post #: 4

RE: Which Version to Use - 1/10/2015 4:26:13 AM

mmarquo

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I purchased the game 2 weeks ago and the game "officially" updates to 3.3.0.6; where is 3.4??

Much thanks

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Post #: 5

RE: Which Version to Use - 1/10/2015 6:29:57 AM

Michael T

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I am on 3.4.0.202 and have been since day one. I guessed you would have been the same.

You can get it here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/317/downloads/Norm.Koger's.The.Operational.Art.of.War.III

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Post #: 6

RE: Which Version to Use - 1/10/2015 12:03:16 PM

mmarquo

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I am somewhat irked; if there is an official patch then the Update link on the game menu should direct to it, not the older version I was directed to. Also, I suppose this explains why your single AT guns sitting in fortified hexes have been so resistant to attacks with overwhelming force??? I was wondering how the Italians managed that; and not to offer up any excuses but maybe this somewhat explains other aspects of our match of CFNA.

Sigh; at least we found out on T 40...,

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Post #: 7

RE: Which Version to Use - 1/10/2015 7:54:53 PM

Michael T

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But we are not using the 'unofficial' version that fixes AA and RBC. We need a different executable file if we want to fix that.

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Post #: 8

RE: Which Version to Use - 1/10/2015 7:57:10 PM

Michael T

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I agree with your irkness. There should be a prominent link on the page where you buy the game. I just assumed you had the latest version. Next time I will make sure we are on the same version.

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Post #: 9

RE: Which Version to Use - 1/11/2015 6:01:18 PM

mmarquo

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I watched the PO opening move in Stalingrad to Kharkov with 3.4.0.202 versus 3xBb and the difference is quite noticeable.

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Post #: 10

RE: Which Version to Use - 1/13/2015 1:12:40 AM

governato

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michaelT+Marquo, by all means use v3.4+Opart3XbB. The community made executable fixes the lack of AA losses and the low chance of retreat for small units set on 'unlimited losses'. The game plays a lot better with Opart3XbB. Some new user developed scenarios come with the executable included.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0piul2tgxwxrszi/Opart%203XBb.zip?dl=0

The thread with the tests is here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3367128

< Message edited by governato -- 1/13/2015 2:33:16 AM >

(in reply to mmarquo)

Post #: 11

RE: Which Version to Use - 1/13/2015 3:04:40 AM

mmarquo

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Are the hard core veterans certain that the same issue or some variant does not happen with ant units set to normal setting defending in fortified hexes? In our CFNA match I witnessed with a dropped jaw as overwhelming stacks attacked single small AT units and others in fortified hexes and were rebuffed with repeated attacks. My opponent says he never used the ignore loss setting.

Now, I started Stalingrad to Kharkov with the 3.4 exe and then rebooted with the 3XBb and the difference was very noticeable...with 3XBb the Soviets knifed through the Rumanians much more efficiently and effectively. In fact, Stalingrad Kessel effectively formed in 3 moves; has anyone formally tested for regular settings??

Thanks

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Post #: 12

RE: Which Version to Use - 1/13/2015 2:08:50 PM

Oberst_Klink

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

Are the hard core veterans certain that the same issue or some variant does not happen with ant units set to normal setting defending in fortified hexes? In our CFNA match I witnessed with a dropped jaw as overwhelming stacks attacked single small AT units and others in fortified hexes and were rebuffed with repeated attacks. My opponent says he never used the ignore loss setting.

Now, I started Stalingrad to Kharkov with the 3.4 exe and then rebooted with the 3XBb and the difference was very noticeable...with 3XBb the Soviets knifed through the Rumanians much more efficiently and effectively. In fact, Stalingrad Kessel effectively formed in 3 moves; has anyone formally tested for regular settings??

Thanks

Thread is here - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3448817

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 13

RE: Which Version to Use - 1/13/2015 4:33:38 PM

mmarquo

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I see comparisons to fortified, entrenched and defending but not to minimize vs normal vs ignore losses, and this is my question. Unless I am missing something is it possible that the losses setting have not been examined in regard to this issue???

Much thanks - I am trying to understand.

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Post #: 14

RE: Which Version to Use - 1/13/2015 5:13:26 PM

governato

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From: Seattle, WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

I see comparisons to fortified, entrenched and defending but not to minimize vs normal vs ignore losses, and this is my question. Unless I am missing something is it possible that the losses setting have not been examined in regard to this issue???

Much thanks - I am trying to understand.

I have not done quantitative tests for 'Limited Losses', but my impression is that results are realistic for that
setting at the 10km+/hex + week long turn. However, this may change a lot of depending on the scenario settings: size and time scale of the scenario, max number of rounds per attack...CL is pretty good at those ;).
Have you tried adding artillery support to your attacks? it makes a large (realistic) difference.

At the end of the day, the current RFC implementation is not perfect, but has been improved a lot with the unofficial patch. I have played WITE and TOAW and I find TOAW combat and turn resolution a lot more realistic. RFC should be fixed for good with v3.5.

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Post #: 15

RE: Which Version to Use - 4/13/2015 1:37:31 PM

rtropp

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Hope I am in the right forum.
I bought TOAW years back and finally have the time to play but I have a couple of questions.

First, since I am just starting, should I just upgrade to TOAW III or will the original TOAW give me nearly the same graphics and gameplay?

Also, what the heck is OPART3.ini?

Thanks

< Message edited by rtropp -- 4/13/2015 2:39:01 PM >

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RE: Which Version to Use - 4/13/2015 9:17:41 PM

ogar

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@rtopp.

Easy questions first -- opart3.ini is the configuration file for TOAW III (current version 3.4.0.202). The settings are usually set from menus within the game, but brave men dare to modify the .ini directly (AFTER they make a back-up copy first) using Notepad (it's just a text file).

I'm assuming you're saying you have experience with TOAW I or II or ACOW. I'll let someone else make comparisons between those and TOAW III (either version 3.2 or 3.4) -- I do not have the experience.

Version 3.4 is the current one supported by Matrix, and as far as upgrade path from an earlier version, that will depend on which version you own, etc. You may want to search the forum for posts on that.

I did start with version 3.2, and I know that v3.2 was a change from 3.0 which I gather was a change from ACOW and earlier. And version 3.4 is different from version 3.2. In my opinion, v3.4 is better. It fixed a lot of old bugs; it did add some sophistication to supply, and thus, to play balance. It inevitably brought its own bugs and complaints (it's a software upgrade; by definition, it's a complication).
A lot of the older (TI, TII, and even TOAW 3.2) scenarios did not play well under version 3.4.0.202 WITH THE NEW SETTINGS. You can change this, game by game, to use the old defaults or a mix of old and new. Your changes can be done by menu (and get written to .ini file). How players approach the problem of playing older scenarios is an individual choice.
However, a number of scenarios have been adjusted for or written for version 3.4, and are best played with its new settings. A number of players. me included, use the unofficial mod 3xB mentioned above as an upgrade to 3.4. (If you do that, SAVE your default 3.4 files first.) I think 3xB and 3.4 provide more balance and flexibility to the newer scenarions.

HTH

(in reply to rtropp)

Post #: 17