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Some questions - 1/21/2014 4:21:14 PM   
Eduardoh

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/21/2014
Status: offline 		Hi,

I´m thinking about getting this game, but a have some questions:

1)I´ve seen a lot of bug reports, how stable is the game after the last update? (I can live with a bug once in a while, but frequent ones - say one every 1-3 turns - I don´t think so)

2)How many players it supports in hotseat? Only 2? (I´m thinking of projecting it on the wall and having some friends over to play it multiplayer, like the boardgame)

That´s it for now.

Thanks,
Eduardo
Post #: 1
RE: Some questions - 1/21/2014 5:24:26 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		1. There are still bugs around in solitair, but it's playable as it is in solitair mode. I would advise to make save games a lot during gameplay, because now and than you might have to go back to one.

2. Since all nations are doing things in order of appearance, it is possible to do a solitair or hot seat the way you are stating. Simply take the flags in the main form as base for the player sitting behind the computer at that moment. A full hotseat with more than 2 players isn't available at this moment, but you can simulate it the way I've just described. Just beware of the fact that only the US player should open the US entry phase when he has to draw or remove chits...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 1/21/2014 6:26:38 PM >

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Eduardoh)
Post #: 2
RE: Some questions - 1/21/2014 7:20:29 PM   
Dabrion


Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
Status: offline 		The only thing available is solo, there is a pointless hotseat and a bug-riddled one-on-one netplay mode. The game works ca. 40% as advertised, the rest is marketing smack talk and wishful thinking. You hit about a bug a minute, some are bearable or have (absurde) workarounds, most are deal breakers. Do not think this software will be fit for your intended purpose any time soon this millenium.. Interface and UX are not designed for a multiplayer experience.

Don't waste your time and money ..

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 3
RE: Some questions - 1/21/2014 7:23:06 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Tell me if I'm a tad off base here, but..you're not entirely happy are you?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 4
RE: Some questions - 1/21/2014 8:45:00 PM   
Werewolf13

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Dabrion:
...Don't waste your time and money ..



quote:

Warspite1:
Tell me if I'm a tad off base here, but..you're not entirely happy are you?


Considering his avatar is a matrix icon in a circle with a slash indicates he's got a major grudge which puts in question his credibility.

That said:
He certainly got my attention though. $99 is a lot to lay down for a game with no AI, though I'm seriously considering it for solitaire play. This Dabrion guy claims:
quote:

The game works ca. 40% as advertised, the rest is marketing smack talk
.

That's a pretty serious claim. Right now I'm leaning towards getting WIF simply because Dabrion makes no effort to back up his claim. Otherwise...


< Message edited by Werewolf1326 -- 1/21/2014 9:47:29 PM >

_____________________________

Freedom is not free! Nor should it be. For men being men will neither fight for nor value that which is free.

Michael Andress

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 5
RE: Some questions - 1/21/2014 8:58:41 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Werewolf if you are going to buy I would spend some time looking at the AAR forum and the Tech Support forum.

This game is not without issues and its right that prospective purchasers should be made aware of them and then its up to them.

I have played this non-stop since it came out in November, goodness knows what the cost per hour works out as, but I think its fair to say if I'd spent even a fraction of the time in the pub, I would be in serious trouble - or my liver and wallet would be...

Personally I am really enjoying getting acquainted with this old friend again, but its not for everyone - particularly those who expect perfection.

Hope you make the right choice for you.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Werewolf13)
Post #: 6
RE: Some questions - 1/21/2014 9:01:09 PM   
AxelNL


Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Read the AAR's to see what you can do. I think we would have 60% less of them if Dabrion is right.

You will encounter bugs in the current version - but it is up to you if you let them ruin your life as much as Dabrion experiences.

(in reply to Werewolf13)
Post #: 7
RE: Some questions - 1/21/2014 9:14:05 PM   
Dabrion


Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
Status: offline 		You judge my credibility where you like.. if you get the game the trap has been sprung, and you are not going to get out..

If you are after solitaire play, you might like it (like Warspite1), that is the only game mode that is playable atm.
The OP asked specifically for a software that can be used to sandbox group play in a gaming room for multiple users. Like a virtual gaming table. We tried this, result: not fit purpose.
Further, do you have a WiF background? If so, you might see that his is not WiF but Matrix' interpretation, thus the name. Good luck researching the details! Please keep us in the loop if you will find any solid information beyond the trash talk in this forum..

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 8
RE: Some questions - 1/21/2014 9:16:43 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

You judge my credibility where you like.. if you get the game the trap has been sprung, and you are not going to get out..

If you are after solitaire play, you might like it (like Warspite1), that is the only game mode that is playable atm.
The OP asked specifically for a software that can be used to sandbox group play in a gaming room for multiple users. Like a virtual gaming table. We tried this, result: not fit purpose.
Further, do you have a WiF background? If so, you might see that his is not WiF but Matrix' interpretation, thus the name. Good luck researching the details! Please keep us in the loop if you will find any solid information beyond the trash talk in this forum..
warspite1

Just for the avoidance of doubt I did not question your credibility (you responded to my post rather than Werewolf's).


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 9
RE: Some questions - 1/21/2014 9:49:58 PM   
Empire101


Posts: 1950
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

You judge my credibility where you like.. if you get the game the trap has been sprung, and you are not going to get out..




A touch melodramatic old chap or is it paranoia?






My Grandmother would have used a far more eloquent phrase and would have remarked '...that young fellow is having a touch of the vapours..'

Centuur, Warspite and AxelNL have made the most important and rational points, and I can only add that I fully expected WIF not to be perfect when it was released, and I'm expecting dozens of patches and upgrades. WIF is the premier WWII Strategy game, a post graduate game of strategy and planning. If you like your gaming to be deep and thoughtful, then I would read the AAR's and other players comments and make your decision.

Or you could wait a couple of years and then buy it when its near perfection. I would recommend getting on the bandwagon now as it is great fun ( if a little frustrating when you have a problem ), but its well worth the ticket




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Empire101 -- 1/21/2014 10:51:00 PM >

_____________________________

Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy. - Michael Burleigh


(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 10
RE: Some questions - 1/21/2014 11:00:33 PM   
Dabrion


Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
Status: offline 		Tin foil heads in fact amplify radio waves to the brain, it is a crazy started by the government, it is known.. don't fall for it.. ;)

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Empire101)
Post #: 11
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 12:57:14 AM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		Dabrion,

If you find the time. Maybe you could do an AAR for us and point out where the game fails. This way we could focus on the shortcomings and you could be instrumental in helping make the game a success you know you wanted it to be.

Please don't wear the tin foil.

Sure do miss Germany. Was stationed in a little place called Wildflecken. Ever been there? The hawk blows cold in January. Berlin was nice, but when i was there the wall was up. Heard its down now. What side do you live in, East or West side Berlin?

Just trying to be friendly to a comrade. Auf wiedersehen!

_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 12
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 1:24:44 AM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

Dabrion,

If you find the time. Maybe you could do an AAR for us and point out where the game fails. This way we could focus on the shortcomings and you could be instrumental in helping make the game a success you know you wanted it to be.

Please don't wear the tin foil.

Sure do miss Germany. Was stationed in a little place called Wildflecken. Ever been there? The hawk blows cold in January. Berlin was nice, but when i was there the wall was up. Heard its down now. What side do you live in, East or West side Berlin?

Just trying to be friendly to a comrade. Auf wiedersehen!


Wildchicken huh! Put a few rounds down range at that place long ago along with a few other choice vacation spots like Graf and Hohenfels. Did some border duty too up in the Coburg sector. Seems like a lifetime ago.

_____________________________


(in reply to WarHunter)
Post #: 13
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 1:55:15 AM   
Dabrion


Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
Status: offline 		Live now in the western part (Tiergarten, close to TU), born in the eastern part. But this distinction isn't relevant anymore.
No clue where Wildflecken is ;) I have been in Hohenfels on sentry duty, when US invaded Iraq ten years ago. Germany did not align with US, if you remember.


Wouldn't hold my breath for an AAR.. why do I need to be instrumental after paying $150. I could be instrumental if I get my money back and a little more comes my way.. Until then.. not my circus, not my monkeys..

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to WarHunter)
Post #: 14
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 4:57:55 AM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21
Wildchicken huh! Put a few rounds down range at that place long ago along with a few other choice vacation spots like Graf and Hohenfels. Did some border duty too up in the Coburg sector. Seems like a lifetime ago.

Sabre21, Coburg is where our scout platoon would set up ground surveillance radar security. Got my 19D secondary ojt after leaving a line company and getting into scouts. Does seem like a longtime ago. I can almost smell the scnitcehel and taste the kruezburg beer.

Oh wait! The dust from Graf and Hohenfels is covering me head to toe!!! yikes

Off to the wash rack.

_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to Sabre21)
Post #: 15
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 5:01:18 AM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		Just stick around long enough Dab. Can i call you Dab?
Someday you and i will be playing MWiF and i'll raze you about monkeys, tin hats and Hohenfels guard duty.


_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 16
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 9:54:53 AM   
Eduardoh

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/21/2014
Status: offline 		Thanks for the replies guys.

Some more:

-Lets say I buy MWiF, but get pissed off by bugs and decide to wait before using the software again. Can I use the MWiF rulebook and vassal to play the game? Are the MWiF rules compatible with WiF components?

-If I end up doing the above, can the rules in MWiF be used with DoDIII? (not using MWiF software, of course, I´m just asking if they are compatible)

Thanks

(in reply to WarHunter)
Post #: 17
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 10:34:12 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		Eduardoh, are you already familiar with WiF? If you're not, and if you're anything like me, it will take you some time to familiarize yourself with the game by reading the rules, watching tutorials, playing solo, etc. By the time I've finished that lengthy process, I'm pretty confident (hopeful?) that most of the bugs will be ironed out, and multi-player and even AI will be released.

Honestly I'm not sure yet if I'll like the game but I've persisted thus far because it looks like a game that could be played for years if the community gels.

(in reply to Eduardoh)
Post #: 18
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 6:01:30 PM   
Empire101


Posts: 1950
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

Tin foil heads in fact amplify radio waves to the brain, it is a crazy started by the government, it is known.. don't fall for it.. ;)


That made me laugh.

Like Warhunter, the last time I was in Berlin was the 1980's ( Army ), that infernal wall was up and Checkpoint Charlie did a roaring trade.

What fantastic memories, Tiergarten, the Zoo, Spandau, the Blue Cathedral......a wonderful time, wonderful people.... only spoilt by that damn wall.


_____________________________

Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy. - Michael Burleigh


(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 19
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 8:14:50 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		I've been in Berlin both before and after the fall of the wall. I have to say that the city is totally different nowadays as compared in the early '80's...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Empire101)
Post #: 20
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 8:26:21 PM   
alexvand


Posts: 380
Joined: 11/29/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Eduardoh

Thanks for the replies guys.

Some more:

-Lets say I buy MWiF, but get pissed off by bugs and decide to wait before using the software again. Can I use the MWiF rulebook and vassal to play the game? Are the MWiF rules compatible with WiF components?

-If I end up doing the above, can the rules in MWiF be used with DoDIII? (not using MWiF software, of course, I´m just asking if they are compatible)

Thanks


Yes. They are the same rules.

(in reply to Eduardoh)
Post #: 21
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 9:05:13 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alex_van_d


quote:

ORIGINAL: Eduardoh

Thanks for the replies guys.

Some more:

-Lets say I buy MWiF, but get pissed off by bugs and decide to wait before using the software again. Can I use the MWiF rulebook and vassal to play the game? Are the MWiF rules compatible with WiF components?

-If I end up doing the above, can the rules in MWiF be used with DoDIII? (not using MWiF software, of course, I´m just asking if they are compatible)

Thanks


Yes. They are the same rules.


Agree. There are a few places where Rules as Coded states there's a deviation in how MWiF works from what the WiF rule states - but the WiF rule is there.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to alexvand)
Post #: 22
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 9:22:40 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I've been in Berlin both before and after the fall of the wall. I have to say that the city is totally different nowadays as compared in the early '80's...


Just to derail the thread a bit further.

It is not hard to figure out where I live (points to the green counter). I also lived in Jefferson City, Missouri (state capital for the geographically challenged). While there, I made it a point to travel to the Churchill Museum in Fulton Missouri. (When Mr Churchill came to visit President Truman after WW2, this was one of their stops and it is here he made the famous "Iron Curtain" speech). The location is a treasure.

The main building is the reconstructed St. Mary, Aldermanbury. The church is at least 1000 years old and was destroyed by a Luftwaffe raid on London in 1940. After standing as a ruin for 20 years, a project was begun to move the church, stone by stone, to Fulton. There it was reconstructed during the 1960's. Also on the site is 8 panels of the Berlin Wall. (this makes it the largest continuous section of the Berlin Wall in North America).

Tremendous place to visit. Mr. Churchill was indeed a remarkable man.



(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 23
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 9:34:17 PM   
joshuamnave

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline 		Dabrion is a bit hostile in his tone, and I also don't understand the mentality of sticking around to post non stop for a game he claims to not be playing, but he's not wrong - just bitter.

There are a *lot* of bugs. The game will crash, frequently, requiring you to load an autosave. Fortunately, it autosaves constantly so rarely do you have to go back more than a few minutes worth of clicks, and a large majority of the bugs iron themselves out by reloading. There are far more bugs than should be acceptable in a released copy of any game, let alone one with a premium price tag, but that alone won't kill the experience for most people.

There is a second category of bugs that is smaller, but persistent, and that do affect game play. Currently, overseas supply isn't functioning properly. German units fighting in north Africa, or American units fighting in NAF or the middle east, can't draw supply through their allies' convoy lines as they should. There is another supply bug, apparently a different one, that affects Japanese supply in some parts of China. There are partial workaround for these, but they don't always work. Not sure what impact it has on games played without the overseas supply rules, but I think most people consider those rules, although optional, to be fairly important to the game. I know I do.

There are assorted other bugs, some critical, some not, that come up only rarely. Some of them are non recoverable (see my currently paused AAR), while some are just annoying. The result is that it's very difficult to get through any significant portion of the game without having to reload one or more times, and you just have to grit your teeth over the supply bugs. It's far from a seamless experience.

There are also some major interface issues that make the game harder than it needs to be - the war really should be between two massive alliances, not between the user and the software.

Yet despite all of that, the game does have some very loyal and vocal fans (see: Warspite). And even though I'm *very* frustrated by the current state of the game and the slow-ish rate of patches (Steve was aiming for 1 per week, but I think we've had 1 since Christmas), I too am a fan. I still enjoy playing it.

The bottom line - if you're easily frustrated or will only be happy with a seamless error free experience, then CWIF is NOT for you. But if you want an incredibly deep and rich strategic level experience, don't mind playing solo (or hot seat), have the time and desire to learn a complex rule set without terribly useful tutorials, then welcome to the zoo!

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 24
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 11:06:43 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		This is the eleventh week since release and there's been 10 patches with one more likely before the end of the week.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to joshuamnave)
Post #: 25
RE: Some questions - 1/22/2014 11:21:22 PM   
joshuamnave

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

This is the eleventh week since release and there's been 10 patches with one more likely before the end of the week.


Perhaps, but those patches were top heavy, coming much faster in the first month after release than since then. There was a patch just before Christmas and then 2 (I was wrong above) since then, or 1 every two weeks. So I stand by what I said above. If someone is reading the forums trying to decide whether or not to buy the game, Steve's post says that he's aiming for 1 patch per week. Right now, he's not hitting that goal. And that's fine - it's good to aim high, and he has a lot to do. One patch per week seemed a bit unlikely to me even then. None the less, it's information a prospective buyer might want to have.


(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 26
RE: Some questions - 1/23/2014 12:47:59 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		There has been one patch released every week since launch (not counting Hot fixs) with ONE execption and that was between xmas and New Years. The current plan is to continue one patch/week at least for the next 2-3 weeks. Maybe longer depending on feedback. This is proven by we are on week 10 post release and we are on version 1.10 with 1.11 to be released this week.

I agree that the number of bugs found is an issue. However, the community here has been awesome in helping Steve track them down and get them fixed. Unfortunately sometimes releasing a product is the only way to find issues as there is only so much the beta testers can test and find.

I have had the game since launch, played quite a bit and have been very happy with my purchase, books and all . Obviously from this thread, you can easily see others that do not feel this way . But it is up to you whether the game is in a state that you could have fun with.


(in reply to joshuamnave)
Post #: 27
RE: Some questions - 1/23/2014 1:13:32 AM   
joshuamnave

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline 		It strains credibility to say that nobody was aware of the bugs prior to launch, given the number and frequency of occurrence. Not one of the beta testers noticed the Bermuda triangle bug in China? Nobody thought to mention the problems with overseas supply? The game never crashed for the beta testers in the last version prior to release?

Of course not. The game was released with bugs, as most software is these days, with the intent on fixing it through patches. To imply otherwise is an insult to our intelligence. It's fine to say that the game was released with more outstanding bugs than we realized, or that we knew there were bugs but wanted to put the game in our customers hands, or that fixing the lingering bugs has been more difficult than expected.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 28
RE: Some questions - 1/23/2014 2:30:56 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		Of course everyone was aware of most of the bugs. I never said otherwise. What made you think I did? Matrix even acknowlodged this prior to release so everyone knew what they were getting into.

I know for a fact that the community has found issues that the beta testers were unaware of. This is what I was saying. That no matter how much testing the betas did, they would never have gotten all the bugs fixed. Is this an excuse to release the game in this condition? No. It is as you said, that the bugs wee more numerous and harder to fix than expected.

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 1/23/2014 3:31:35 AM >

(in reply to joshuamnave)
Post #: 29
RE: Some questions - 1/23/2014 8:24:49 AM   
AxelNL


Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Guys, I became betatester 2 months before the release to help Steve on his journey. We are bound by an NDA, so I cannot say that much.
I am also a paying customer (bought the prerelease in Essen for 150,- Euro, including the maps, and paid for my own "shipping" to get to//from Essen), and am happy I did this (even if I paid more than the release would have costs me a month later, and knowing the state of the game very much at that time).

This game, with all its rules, options included is a monster to test. The permutations possible are gigantic, and bugs can occur on very rare cases. As an example the bug Zartacla encountered in his AAR, which seems to be related to the particulars of Alexandria and surrounding terrain in combination with supply lines and who is there at that point. (BTW Zartacle, bug is found and needs a final test, we have not forgotten you).

I think Zartacla sums it up very nicely: don't buy this (yet) if you are easily frustrated. But if you do, you get the queen of all strategy games on your PC, and will be able to finally play it.

There will be a time that most bugs are smitten, and that the game enforces rules you have forgotten or misintrepeted instead of you thinking it is a bug. Last couple of weeks I have encountered that more than finding new bugs (I am not a Grognard and my rules knowledge is based on the 5th edition and rusty). Both were luckely very limited, so I actually enjoy my current Global War scenario, and help narrow down bugs and test their solutions others find (such as Zartacla, who seems to find more than I do ).

btw: nice to read a civilised discussion on this subject - in another thread the tone can get hostile indeed. Which is a pity.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 30
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