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mandatory loss - 1/31/2014 7:38:05 AM   
Skanvak

 

Posts: 577
Joined: 4/3/2005
Status: offline 		We had a hotseat game with a friend. Scenario is barbarossa.

The Russian made and attack on first turn on the blitz table and get a loss. The first loss should have been a mech, arm or mot. But the game autorise the selection of cav or mtn and when the mtn was selected it was not possible to unselect it. Then game accept the mtn as first (and only) loss of the attacker in a blitz battle.

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Skanvak
Post #: 1
RE: mandatory loss - 1/31/2014 1:12:16 PM   
joshuamnave

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline 		Just tested it in Poland. Confirmed - the game is not enforcing the mandatory losses. In my case I should have been required to lose an Eng unit first and the game let me choose an inf division instead.

(in reply to Skanvak)
Post #: 2
RE: mandatory loss - 2/1/2014 1:15:44 PM   
oleb

 

Posts: 128
Joined: 10/18/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Skanvak

The Russian made and attack on first turn on the blitz table and get a loss. The first loss should have been a mech, arm or mot.


Do you have a rules reference for this?

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Ktarn

(in reply to Skanvak)
Post #: 3
RE: mandatory loss - 2/1/2014 1:59:06 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktarn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Skanvak

The Russian made and attack on first turn on the blitz table and get a loss. The first loss should have been a mech, arm or mot.


Do you have a rules reference for this?

If they are using 2D10 and attacking a city or in bad weather, the first loss has to be a MOT, ARM or MECH...

See the notes on the 2D10 table (which is the last page of RAW, if I'm not mistaken).

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Peter

(in reply to oleb)
Post #: 4
RE: mandatory loss - 2/1/2014 2:14:27 PM   
Skanvak

 

Posts: 577
Joined: 4/3/2005
Status: offline 		Absolutetly, we were using the 2D10 table. Beside the game did ask for a mandatory loss (this was written). Look at page 173 of the rule as coded. It is clear that the use of the blitz table make the loss mandatory without other condition.

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Skanvak

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Post #: 5
RE: mandatory loss - 2/1/2014 2:49:48 PM   
joshuamnave

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktarn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Skanvak

The Russian made and attack on first turn on the blitz table and get a loss. The first loss should have been a mech, arm or mot.


Do you have a rules reference for this?

If they are using 2D10 and attacking a city or in bad weather, the first loss has to be a MOT, ARM or MECH...

See the notes on the 2D10 table (which is the last page of RAW, if I'm not mistaken).


Close - there are a few conditions that require a mandatory loss (using the 2d10 table, I wouldn't know what the rule is for the 1d10).

On a blitz attack, the first loss must be a mot, mech or arm. Attacking a city (in any weather) lets the defender choose assault or blitz, so if you're attacking cities with armor, make sure you have a mot div to soak up that loss.
Using the engineer's bonus (to cross a river or to negate the defensive bonus of a factory in a city) means the first loss must be an eng.
Using winterized units to negate the snow/blizzard penalty means the first loss must come from a winterized unit.

In the case I ran (and have seen it happen again a few times since), the first loss should have been an engineer, the game prompted me to make the first loss an engineer, but allowed me to choose and lose a different unit instead.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 6
RE: mandatory loss - 2/2/2014 1:46:35 PM   
cdebasso

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 11/16/2013
Status: offline 		I have noticed this too several times. The game does indicate that there is a mandatory loss... but allows you to pick another unit.

(in reply to joshuamnave)
Post #: 7
RE: mandatory loss - 2/2/2014 5:39:25 PM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Skanvak

We had a hotseat game with a friend. Scenario is barbarossa.

The Russian made and attack on first turn on the blitz table and get a loss. The first loss should have been a mech, arm or mot. But the game autorise the selection of cav or mtn and when the mtn was selected it was not possible to unselect it. Then game accept the mtn as first (and only) loss of the attacker in a blitz battle.


Hi,

If you are playing hot-seat, I strongly suggest you simply play solitaire mode. My experience of Hot-Seat, is that it has more bugs than the other modes, and simply forces you to click more OK buttons.

You'll be fine as long as you don't charge through the forms and know who the chooser is.

My experience FWIW.

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Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Skanvak)
Post #: 8
RE: mandatory loss - 3/6/2014 2:08:14 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Because there are so many different rules (some optional) affecting when a loss may be mandatory for a certain unit type, I would like to have a saved game where the problem exists. If one could be attached to a post in this thread with instructions on how to reproduce the problem, I would be most appreciative.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Zorachus99)
Post #: 9
RE: mandatory loss - 3/6/2014 2:28:55 AM   
joshuamnave

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline 		It happens 100% of the time, so all you really need is a save file from a land combat decl phase where such an attack is possible, then you can manually input the die roll to ensure the attacker or defender loses at least one unit.

In this save, Germany is lining up to attack Leningrad. There's a 2 factor engineer as part of the gathering forces. Declare an attack on Leningrad (and an O-chit was used, so you can double the combat factors or not, as you see fit). Activate the engineer's benefit, then make sure the die roll requires at least 1 German loss. You'll be able to ignore the prompt and destroy other units, leaving the engineer untouched.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 10
RE: mandatory loss - 3/6/2014 2:31:48 AM   
joshuamnave

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline 		Note that it also happens with winterized units leading the attack. Not sure about winterized units leading the defense, but I would assume the problem exists there as well. I don't play with ski divisions, so not sure about that. Also happens on blitz attacks, where the first loss should be a mot/mech/arm unit. Don't forget the situations where engineer losses and winterized losses overrule the blitz losses.

(in reply to joshuamnave)
Post #: 11
RE: mandatory loss - 3/6/2014 8:55:25 AM   
michaelbaldur


Posts: 4774
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: denmark
Status: offline
quote:

then you can manually input the die roll to ensure the attacker or defender loses at least one unit.


as I understand there are a pick dice roll function in solitaire

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(in reply to joshuamnave)
Post #: 12
RE: mandatory loss - 3/6/2014 9:21:51 AM   
joshuamnave

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

quote:

then you can manually input the die roll to ensure the attacker or defender loses at least one unit.


as I understand there are a pick dice roll function in solitaire


Yes. That is what I was referring to.

(in reply to michaelbaldur)
Post #: 13
RE: mandatory loss - 3/7/2014 7:40:30 AM   
joshuamnave

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline 		Here's an easier one - this is saved in the land combat declaration phase, but I've already declared the combat and activated the engineers for you. It's the German attack on Lodz. So long as the Germans lose a unit, the prompt to select an engineer first will come up, but the game will allow you to choose a different unit instead.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Skanvak)
Post #: 14
RE: mandatory loss - 3/12/2014 4:58:34 AM   
joshuamnave

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline 		You asked for these files almost a week ago. I posted the first one a few minutes after you asked for them, and the second a few days later. And they've never been downloaded. What gives? Why ask for them if you don't need them?

(in reply to joshuamnave)
Post #: 15
RE: mandatory loss - 3/12/2014 9:55:42 AM   
AxelNL


Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

You asked for these files almost a week ago. I posted the first one a few minutes after you asked for them, and the second a few days later. And they've never been downloaded. What gives? Why ask for them if you don't need them?


Steve is grouping bugs. Going from one to the other in whole different parts is not efficient. As soon as he is diving in this group he will need the savegames and will find them here.

(in reply to joshuamnave)
Post #: 16
RE: mandatory loss - 3/15/2014 3:38:51 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

You asked for these files almost a week ago. I posted the first one a few minutes after you asked for them, and the second a few days later. And they've never been downloaded. What gives? Why ask for them if you don't need them?

I am almost caught up with downloading all the saved games that were posted (that I still need). Sometimes I find a saved game in my collection that lets me fix a bug.

[Only 3 more threads for me to read through in Tech Support].

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to joshuamnave)
Post #: 17
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