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Japanese Device Production and Upgrades

 
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Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/7/2014 12:43:14 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		I have some questions around the use of the device pool for Japanese production. I understand that the production mostly works on the basis that devices are produced (from Armament/Vehicle/Manpower) as needed but I don't see how this interacts with the device pool.

For example, the "47mm Type 01 AT Gun" became available as a replacement for the "37mm Type 01 AT Gun" on turn 360. Some LCUs have upgraded to the new device but, as shown below, also some of the new device have been added to the pool. Why have these devices been produced?

If a device has reached the end availability date, an upgrade is available but upgrades are disabled for the LCU, will replacements be taken from the pool of the device?

For example, the "37mm Type 94 AT Gun" upgraded to the "37mm Type 01 AT Gun" and is now end of life. Will units equipped with the Type 94 use up the pool of them as replacements are needed?

If a multi-step upgrade is possible (for example, from the 37mm Type 94 to the 47mm Type 01 via the 37mm Type 01) will the intermediate devices be produced or only the final ones needed? This assuming the upgrade is delayed until the final one is available.

Some devices have a build rate (mostly radar but also some others). Is this production added to the pool without using Armament/Vehicle/Manpower points and can it then be used for replacements or new units without anything other than the supply cost?






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RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/7/2014 3:52:49 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I believe the devices with a build or replacement rate are at no cost to you.

I would guess that the new AT guns are in the pool because the game engine knows you have some units that will eventually want to upgrade to them? I don't really know. You showed us one part of your tracker list, but are there others with a need for that device? Perhaps you have some that still have the 37mm but upgrade is turned off?

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 2
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/7/2014 4:56:13 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I believe the devices with a build or replacement rate are at no cost to you.

I would guess that the new AT guns are in the pool because the game engine knows you have some units that will eventually want to upgrade to them? I don't really know. You showed us one part of your tracker list, but are there others with a need for that device? Perhaps you have some that still have the 37mm but upgrade is turned off?


Loads more that could be upgraded.

However, what could make some sense is for those that have been set to upgrade but cannot for one reason or another (location, supply, etc.). The next turn the pool went up again but the turn after that it has upgraded something with 18 devices drawn from the pool and not built any more.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 3
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/7/2014 5:53:43 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		You old pools will upgrade too...or simply disappear? Hard to tell.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/7/2014 6:54:34 PM >

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 4
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/7/2014 10:28:35 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Tracking device pools is pretty complex as there are so many units involved and a fair number of rules. And those rules have been updated in the beta, so it depends upon what patch you are playing with to get the correct set of rules. I don't have all my notes here with me, but suffice to say the above posters are mostly correct.

There is an "AI production manager" in between you and what devices are actually built. You can substantially influence this by choosing which units to upgrade and which devices you have set to pool or not, BUT you do not have total control on device production. There is no panel that allows you to set the build rate for each device ... so sadly, you frequently get 50 Observation units built along with the 50 engineer squads that you wanted.


_____________________________

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 5
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/7/2014 10:57:43 PM   
cohimbra


Posts: 632
Joined: 10/15/2011
From: Italy
Status: offline 		@Spidery : according to my Industy/Troop/Resouce Pool screen (see img.), the "47mm Type 01 AT Gun" become available in 42/01 as upgrade for the "37mm Type 94 AT Gun" device. So, you produce it from January '42.




< Message edited by cohimbra -- 6/8/2014 12:16:09 AM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 6
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/8/2014 7:15:07 AM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

@Spidery : according to my Industy/Troop/Resouce Pool screen (see img.), the "47mm Type 01 AT Gun" become available in 42/01 as upgrade for the "37mm Type 94 AT Gun" device. So, you produce it from January '42.


Should have said, DBB-C scenario so different device stats.

(in reply to cohimbra)
Post #: 7
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/8/2014 7:19:06 AM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

There is an "AI production manager" in between you and what devices are actually built.


Thanks PaxMondo, we are using the latest Beta 1123x8. This explains things, so it is not simply that the game provides a device as it is needed. Instead, this production manager tries to guess demand in advance and then the pools are used for replacements/upgrades the same as for the Allies?

I'm trying to work out how to avoid having devices left in the pool, as they represent wasted HI.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 8
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/8/2014 10:03:19 AM   
cohimbra


Posts: 632
Joined: 10/15/2011
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

quote:

@Spidery : according to my Industy/Troop/Resouce Pool screen (see img.), the "47mm Type 01 AT Gun" become available in 42/01 as upgrade for the "37mm Type 94 AT Gun" device. So, you produce it from January '42.


Should have said, DBB-C scenario so different device stats.

Errore imperdonabile, ti sfido quindi a singolar tenzone*

* You live in England, you know for sure some italian people...they can translate for you

< Message edited by cohimbra -- 6/8/2014 11:04:10 AM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/8/2014 1:43:31 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

quote:

There is an "AI production manager" in between you and what devices are actually built.


Thanks PaxMondo, we are using the latest Beta 1123x8. This explains things, so it is not simply that the game provides a device as it is needed. Instead, this production manager tries to guess demand in advance and then the pools are used for replacements/upgrades the same as for the Allies?

I'm trying to work out how to avoid having devices left in the pool, as they represent wasted HI.

Understood, and when on the IJ side quite imperative. Unfortunately, I have never been able to get it perfect.

Now the good news. About 6 - 10 beta versions back Michael changed the device return to pool considerably. After 6 months of staying in the pool and no use, devices revert back to their (at least in part) building blocks. So these devices like the 37mm AT gun will eventually decay back into some portion of their original ARM points. So these excess devices now are just like money tied up in a CD ... you don't gain anything, but at least you get (some of) your money back later.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 10
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/8/2014 5:35:50 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

Now the good news. About 6 - 10 beta versions back Michael changed the device return to pool considerably. After 6 months of staying in the pool and no use, devices revert back to their (at least in part) building blocks. So these devices like the 37mm AT gun will eventually decay back into some portion of their original ARM points. So these excess devices now are just like money tied up in a CD ... you don't gain anything, but at least you get (some of) your money back later.


Does this refer to the following change "After 6 months, an expired pooled device (squad or engineer type) will slowly convert to the upgraded version; if Japan, obsolete devices will revert to the raw materials."

I can see it with the Type 89A medium tank that went obsolete 1/42 and between turns 239 and 287 it returned 184 of them leaving only 1 in the pool. However, it hasn't done this for the Type 94 Tankette since there is an upgrade but it is not marked as obsolete. Still, it represents a lot of Vehicle points returned.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 11
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/9/2014 3:06:34 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

quote:

Now the good news. About 6 - 10 beta versions back Michael changed the device return to pool considerably. After 6 months of staying in the pool and no use, devices revert back to their (at least in part) building blocks. So these devices like the 37mm AT gun will eventually decay back into some portion of their original ARM points. So these excess devices now are just like money tied up in a CD ... you don't gain anything, but at least you get (some of) your money back later.


Does this refer to the following change "After 6 months, an expired pooled device (squad or engineer type) will slowly convert to the upgraded version; if Japan, obsolete devices will revert to the raw materials."

I can see it with the Type 89A medium tank that went obsolete 1/42 and between turns 239 and 287 it returned 184 of them leaving only 1 in the pool. However, it hasn't done this for the Type 94 Tankette since there is an upgrade but it is not marked as obsolete. Still, it represents a lot of Vehicle points returned.


I've been getting a lot of vehicle points returned to the pool over the past few months. I'm only producing 200, but I had several turns where I accumulated 600 or more. Definitely from units that upgraded.

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 12
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/9/2014 4:27:02 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery


... Does this refer to the following change "After 6 months, an expired pooled device (squad or engineer type) will slowly convert to the upgraded version; if Japan, obsolete devices will revert to the raw materials." ...



Yes.

Alfred

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 13
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/9/2014 6:12:24 AM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery


... Does this refer to the following change "After 6 months, an expired pooled device (squad or engineer type) will slowly convert to the upgraded version; if Japan, obsolete devices will revert to the raw materials." ...



Yes.

Alfred

For Japan it can save lot of Veh/Arm points. I remember when my tank units start upgrading to new tank model. Six month later something ~10k vehicle points back to pool.



< Message edited by koniu -- 6/9/2014 7:13:12 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/10/2014 11:58:57 PM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		In order for the obsolete devices to disassemble to arm/veh points, must the game-pref 'auto-convert obsolete devices' be set ON?

(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 15
RE: Japanese Device Production and Upgrades - 6/12/2014 11:38:25 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		No, that has nothing to do with it.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 16
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