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Playing without house rules? - 6/26/2014 8:49:39 PM   
Boomer Redleg


Posts: 36
Joined: 7/15/2013
Status: offline 		So some of you are playing without house rules. I've read a lot of recommendations and see in many AARs that a lot of the house rules seem to relate to bombing altitudes and using political points.

For those of you that are playing without house rules, are you seeing any problems with your game in which you would consider using house rules in the future?

Does playing without house rules give more of an advantage to either the allies or the Japanese?




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RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/26/2014 9:27:47 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer Redleg

So some of you are playing without house rules. I've read a lot of recommendations and see in many AARs that a lot of the house rules seem to relate to bombing altitudes and using political points.

For those of you that are playing without house rules, are you seeing any problems with your game in which you would consider using house rules in the future?

Does playing without house rules give more of an advantage to either the allies or the Japanese?





No problems in two current PBEM games. Advantages/disadvantages wash out IMO.

I'd pay a lot more attention to which scenario you play.

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RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/26/2014 9:56:09 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I only play without house rules in my current PBEM because I explicitly trust my opponent. But then again, I won't play with people I don't know well.

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RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/26/2014 10:15:40 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline 		I didn't know Mike or Cliff before we started the games. Maybe I got lucky. Maybe 99% of the folks around here are good guys.

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RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/26/2014 10:23:35 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Since stock WitP, I've played about 20 PBEM games, including the current one. 18 of them have ended prematurely, with my opponent disappearing. This is the first one I fully expect to run until the end of the campaign.

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RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/26/2014 10:25:20 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline 		So, did you play someone you didn't know well 18 of 20 times?

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Post #: 6
RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/26/2014 10:29:33 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Apparently. Call me hopelessly naive, but I've learned my lesson now.

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RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 12:06:51 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I didn't know Mike or Cliff before we started the games. Maybe I got lucky. Maybe 99% of the folks around here are good guys.


Just wait until I pull my latest trick out of my hat! I'll send you looking for house rules yet!

......maybe.

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RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 2:09:55 AM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Apparently. Call me hopelessly naive, but I've learned my lesson now.


Wanna buy some life insurance? Finest kind.

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RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 2:10:57 AM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I didn't know Mike or Cliff before we started the games. Maybe I got lucky. Maybe 99% of the folks around here are good guys.


Just wait until I pull my latest trick out of my hat! I'll send you looking for house rules yet!

......maybe.


It just makes me stronger . . .

Come on January . . .

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The Moose

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Post #: 10
RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 4:33:18 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		My opponent and I had a good many house rules in our first game (WITP CHS) and none in our present game because we have come to trust each other and appreciate the playing style. If there are issues with the game mechanics we discuss them and play on, each keeping in mind what sort of gaming experience for which we are both looking.

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RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 3:03:52 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Apparently. Call me hopelessly naive


OK. You're hopelessly naive.

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RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 3:14:11 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer Redleg

So some of you are playing without house rules. I've read a lot of recommendations and see in many AARs that a lot of the house rules seem to relate to bombing altitudes and using political points.

For those of you that are playing without house rules, are you seeing any problems with your game in which you would consider using house rules in the future?

Does playing without house rules give more of an advantage to either the allies or the Japanese?





Hi Boomer,

You'll find a plethora of different opinions on the matter. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Some basic HRs are probably in order for most matches, IMO. Particularly amongst new PBEM players that don't know their opponents or the PBEM experience well. Playing 'around' some of the problems with the code (e.g., PPs for movement of restricted HQ units outside of national boundaries) with HRs is the most straightforward way for most players. There's not a lot of recognized issues that need HRs, but having them as a backup basis of understanding is probably the smart thing to do for most.

My own list of HRs has shrunk dramatically over time. Then again, I've been playing this game 'franchise' since the days of Uncommon Valor and I know (and trust) some of my selected opponents implicitly. Your mileage as a new player may vary.

As to which side gains an advantage with the use of HRs-that answer varies by the HR adopted. Rules about restrictions on 4EB bombing hamper the effectiveness of the Allies inherently. Rules about high-altitude sweeps will likely affect both players to varying degrees.

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RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 3:30:20 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		I'm not fond of house rules (as anyone on the forum will no doubt tell you!). They have their place , but are generally WAAAAAAAAAY overused. Often not to fix flaws , but to fix flaws "that used to be" (but have since been fixed , for found to be NOT flaws to begin with). They do have their place , if you play with someone you don't know. But I feel that I have a much better solution. Don't play a grand campaign with someone you don't know. If you have to play someone who 1) you don't know 2) or has no reputation , then play a couple of short scenarios against the person 1st. Gauge their play. Are they a gentleman? Do you get bad impressions from them? Then you probably don't want to invest two years or more of play against them.

Friends don't need house rules. I play primarily against friends. And I never play a GC against someone that I either don't know or know his reputation. Period. Time is not money. IT'S much more precious. You can always make more money if you waste it. Time is finite.

So invest your game playing time wisely. And if a perspective opponent gives you a laundry list of house rules that require 4 lawyers , a paralegal and record keeper to follow , that person is probably not interested in a fun game , but a victory at any costs. This game is too special to allow it to be reduced to "lawfare". Fun and enjoyment should be their own house rules , guided by the principals of friendship, gentlemanly conduct and honesty. But before you play anyone , or discuss house rules , talk to that person. A LOT. Discuss "gamey". Come to a meeting of the minds. And keep talking during the game. NEVER stop talking. If you have a question or doubt, TALK about it. But always keep things fun!

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RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 5:01:39 PM   
Connfire


Posts: 872
Joined: 7/18/2008
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline 		AW1Steve,

Very well said. Do you have a favorite short scenario?

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Post #: 15
RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 6:37:32 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Connfire

AW1Steve,

Very well said. Do you have a favorite short scenario?


No, not really. If I had to pick , I'd say Guadalcanal because it's the longest.

All the short ones are good , and they are generally very tough. That's because they were designed as learning devices , and the gentlemen who designed them know that you learn more from a tough uphill slug then you do from a cakewalk. Except the ones designed by Terminus. His are tough because I think he's a closet sadist! (Just kidding T!).
I strongly recommend playing each and every short scenario , then play it again from the other side. And if you are a newbie , ask you opponent to do a "mirror game". That's where you have two ,consecutive games going , but you play opposite sides at the same time. THAT way you'll really learn. Fast.

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Post #: 16
RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 6:49:18 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I'm not a closet sadist.

I'm quite open about it.

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Post #: 17
RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 7:42:31 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		While I come to realize that having a long list of HRs isn´t the best of things there are SOME that I think are good for playability/fun. Personal taste perhaps.

Pay full PPs to cross national borders. Not having it will make things in China/Burma/India quite...odd. Personally I would also put in place some kind of restriction on aircraft altitudes. Highest wins isn´t always fun.

Other then that (and a few to deal with the 1st turn) I don´t see much need for HRs. Most things evens out in the end.

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Post #: 18
RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 8:17:09 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

While I come to realize that having a long list of HRs isn´t the best of things there are SOME that I think are good for playability/fun. Personal taste perhaps.

Pay full PPs to cross national borders. Not having it will make things in China/Burma/India quite...odd. Personally I would also put in place some kind of restriction on aircraft altitudes. Highest wins isn´t always fun.

Other then that (and a few to deal with the 1st turn) I don´t see much need for HRs. Most things evens out in the end.


I think playing with stacking limits and no PPs to cross borders would probably be fine. Negates the possibility of Manchurian/Chinese superstacks facing off against each other.

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Post #: 19
RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 9:13:27 PM   
Connfire


Posts: 872
Joined: 7/18/2008
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: Connfire

AW1Steve,

Very well said. Do you have a favorite short scenario?


No, not really. If I had to pick , I'd say Guadalcanal because it's the longest.

All the short ones are good , and they are generally very tough. That's because they were designed as learning devices , and the gentlemen who designed them know that you learn more from a tough uphill slug then you do from a cakewalk. Except the ones designed by Terminus. His are tough because I think he's a closet sadist! (Just kidding T!).
I strongly recommend playing each and every short scenario , then play it again from the other side. And if you are a newbie , ask you opponent to do a "mirror game". That's where you have two ,consecutive games going , but you play opposite sides at the same time. THAT way you'll really learn. Fast.


Thanks for the info, that actually is very helpful to me. I bought the game during the sale - been playing WPO for years but of course WITP-AE is in a league of its own. Played Coral Sea and Thousand Mile War as both sides so far. Right now I'm playing Guadalcanal for the first time as Allies - I'm really getting hooked. And you're right, I am learning a lot about the game mechanics in the smaller scenarios.

I think one reason I'm drawn to this topic, and what you said, is because my longtime opponent and I always played with house rules. But these were to cover some of the flaws in WPO. Most of these flaws I don't see in WITP-AE, though I'm reading that other players have other rules for other reasons. I haven't advanced to the point where I can make such a decision. However, I couldn't agree more with your emphasis on mutual trust, especially if you're making what can be a multi-year commitment to a game.

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Post #: 20
RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/27/2014 10:34:02 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Connfire


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: Connfire

AW1Steve,

Very well said. Do you have a favorite short scenario?


No, not really. If I had to pick , I'd say Guadalcanal because it's the longest.

All the short ones are good , and they are generally very tough. That's because they were designed as learning devices , and the gentlemen who designed them know that you learn more from a tough uphill slug then you do from a cakewalk. Except the ones designed by Terminus. His are tough because I think he's a closet sadist! (Just kidding T!).
I strongly recommend playing each and every short scenario , then play it again from the other side. And if you are a newbie , ask you opponent to do a "mirror game". That's where you have two ,consecutive games going , but you play opposite sides at the same time. THAT way you'll really learn. Fast.


Thanks for the info, that actually is very helpful to me. I bought the game during the sale - been playing WPO for years but of course WITP-AE is in a league of its own. Played Coral Sea and Thousand Mile War as both sides so far. Right now I'm playing Guadalcanal for the first time as Allies - I'm really getting hooked. And you're right, I am learning a lot about the game mechanics in the smaller scenarios.

I think one reason I'm drawn to this topic, and what you said, is because my longtime opponent and I always played with house rules. But these were to cover some of the flaws in WPO. Most of these flaws I don't see in WITP-AE, though I'm reading that other players have other rules for other reasons. I haven't advanced to the point where I can make such a decision. However, I couldn't agree more with your emphasis on mutual trust, especially if you're making what can be a multi-year commitment to a game.


From the sounds of it, you and your opponent should be fine without anything in the way of house rules . If anything were to come up, I'd expect that in such a long gaming relationship that the two of you would be able to talk it out!

(in reply to Connfire)
Post #: 21
RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/28/2014 1:06:38 AM   
catwhoorg


Posts: 686
Joined: 9/27/2012
From: Uk expat lving near Atlanta
Status: offline 		Pretty much the only house rule I would consider (after turn 1) is the pay PP's to cross national borders.

Turn 1 needs to be played fair, such the Japanese player doesn't take advantage of knowing exactly where the US carriers are.

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Post #: 22
RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/29/2014 12:20:22 AM   
Boomer Redleg


Posts: 36
Joined: 7/15/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks to everyone that replied. Are there any benefits attached to bases and air units being in the same headquarters?

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Post #: 23
RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/29/2014 2:25:01 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer Redleg

Thanks to everyone that replied. Are there any benefits attached to bases and air units being in the same headquarters?

Not really. Not the way it worked IRL, but it's a limitation of the game engine. HQs are interchangeable and a fungible commodity.

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RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/29/2014 2:40:46 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Air units in the same HQ seem to coordinate better.

Otherwise I have noticed nothing.

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Post #: 25
RE: Playing without house rules? - 6/29/2014 4:06:11 PM   
Connfire


Posts: 872
Joined: 7/18/2008
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for all of the feedback, and for answering questions, some of which I never even asked, on this thread. I now feel more comfortable with WITP-AE style PBEM, and my longtime opponent and I have started our first in the Coral Sea scenario.

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Post #: 26
RE: Playing without house rules? - 7/1/2014 1:11:10 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		I've read some past posts, that gave me to think that the base-hex's assigned HQ would improve aircraft-availability percentages, if the air-squadrons were subordinate to the base-hex's chain-of-command.

Haven't been able to validate this in my game-play. My Allied 4EBs (late-war B-24s & B-29s) are getting 'orrid repair action at large airbases that have huge overage of Aviation Support devices, as well as bulk AirHQ support.

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Post #: 27
RE: Playing without house rules? - 7/3/2014 7:37:45 AM   
PetrOs

 

Posts: 260
Joined: 11/11/2006
Status: offline 		I am playing my first ever PBEM now, Scenario 2 as Allies (yes, i know, masochistic a bit ;) ), and I did not know the opponent before. We have no gameplay bound house rules at all. Only thing was, that as we had no historical 1st turn and no surprise, to play fair and realistic first turn, with no through-the-DEI landings (Palembang, Balikpapan, Surabaya, etc) with "fast" groups. And so far, I enjoyed it.

< Message edited by PetrOs -- 7/3/2014 8:38:37 AM >

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Post #: 28
RE: Playing without house rules? - 7/6/2014 1:09:57 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		PetrOs,

sounds like you have house rules to me. if you dont know...Allied mass by summer 43 will route any empire advances even if you have made terrible mistakes or had horrible luck.

I like playing out the game and allowing the empire to do their best without restrictions. It's the allies that need to be restrained. no 4e naval, night air, points to move divisions across countries, etc. These all have the impact of slowing down the allies and extending the game.

Auto victory is a rough tool to measure if the empire did its best. I encourage any allied player to play on even if auto victory is achieved.

Always thought playing parallel games and measuring relative speed to victory using same rules is a very good way to play.


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RE: Playing without house rules? - 7/9/2014 5:04:34 AM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		Playing one with pay PP for crossing and limited plane altitude.

I prefer little to no house rules because then you do not have to worry about breaking them.

Most house rules seem to be in place to defeat tactics that are difficult or annoying to counter.

Less is better IMO.

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