Idea about subs

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Tech Support >> Idea about subs

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Idea about subs - 2/11/2003 5:45:48 PM

frank1970

Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline

Would it be possible to give subs a "battery" status or something like that? It should rise the chances of detecting and destroying a sub, when it is in a hex with a lot of PCs and aircover.
In a game my planes sighted a sub, planes from my CVTF, with about 20 to 30 planes on ASW. additional I sent a PC TF there, but th esub was not sunk (it was a coastal hex btw) I would expect, that planes should be able to search a hex (which is 30 miles diameter ?) so effective, that the sub is unable to load its batteries and therefore is unable to attack dived or even leave dived.
Doing this would help to solve the subs in bases problem.

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asw is broke and they don't want to fix it - 2/20/2003 5:00:45 PM

elcid

Posts: 226
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Lakewood Washington
Status: offline

The basic way to kill a sub in those days - if you didn't get lucky - before the introduction of weapons that work at all depths - was to "sit" on the sub for a couple of days. She could not go far on batteries, and she could not recharge them if you were sitting there either. If she moved very fast you would hear her and get information about her bearing and possibly more. Two escorts are optimum for this - for lots of reasons - but UV ignores it completely in its model. The ASW model seems very simple - IF a sub is detected and IF there is an ASW ship in the hex, it makes one die roll to see if it finds the sub and, if it does, another to see if it hit the sub? IF a sub is detecte by an aircraft, it makes a die roll to see if it hits it with a bomb or depth charge? Possibly weather is a factor in detection, and allegedly the proficiency of the escort (and possibly aircraft) affects the die rolls. But there is no broader effort to evaluate the operational situation, nor is there any benefit from combined air and surface ASW teams, although that was really the big deal in WWII. Similarly, there seems to be no ASW capable HQ, and so no one is coordinating your ASW units. Indeed, there is no actual ASW mission for surface warships at all - not even for specialists like PCs and DEs. None of this make a lot of sense for such a fine naval warfare model. The result is a very strange model in which submarines and ASW is even more random than it really was, and there is not much you can do about it. The game techniques are to exploit its statistical nature:

1. Assign NUMBERS of planes to ASW at low altitudes, always including 1,000 feet.

2. Assign NUMBERS of escorts to ASW groups, and deliberately put them in hexes you know (or think) enemy submarines lurk in.

3. AVOID hexes with known enemy submarines in them.

4. COMBINE transports into one, or as small a number as possible, task forces - it looks like the greater the number of TFs the greater the chance one gets attacked. The AI seems to treat 25 merchant ships the same as one, in terms of spotting it! Add escort to the convoy, so if it is attacked, you get a "free" ASW attack afterwards.

5. Note some ships launch seaplanes at sea on ASW missions, so put them with critical task forces.

(in reply to frank1970)

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- 2/20/2003 8:52:53 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

Also be advised that exp plays a big role in ASW capability.

Surface vessals must have at least a 50exp before they'll even consider attacking a sub, and even then, they won't likely be able to find the sub to attack it to begin with. Over 70exp is much more likely to get you any results at all. Also, you can check a somewhat "simplified" ASW rating for the ship, by right-clicking on it. ASW ratings range from 2 - 8, the guys with a rating of 2 aren't that well suited for the job, and aren't as likely to give you results. They guys with a rating of 8 have alot more DCs (you see the detail on the ship info screen), and can lay out a much more effective blanket of DCs.

Aircraft must have at least 70exp before they can do anything agressive to a sub. Under 70exp, you can assign an aircraft the mission and they will slowly gain exp, and maybe spot a sub, but they won't attack it. Above 70exp, the plane MIGHT attack the sub. Your odds are better if your planes are over 80exp. And over 90exp is where your guys could actually be considered sub-hunters. As elcid said, put your planes at 1000'. That seems to be a good altitude, as they're high enough to spot a sub, and low enough that it might still have time to attack.

Why "waste" 90exp patrol squadrons on ASW? You're planes are gonna spot bad-guys with exp in the 50s. Yes, the 90exp guy is gonna be more likely to correctly identify the ship, but basically ANYBODY can fly a patrol mission looking for ships, but those 90exp patrol squadrons will actually do you some good on ASW, so why not use them as such.

Also be advised that, attacking a sub, and not actually killing it, isn't necessarily a bad thing. Attacking a sub uses ALOT of it's endurance. If you manage to drive away a sub, and force it to RTB, you've cleared him out of the area for about 2 weeks, which isn't a bad thing. Granted, clearing him out PERMANENTLY is better, but you have to take what you can get.

-F-

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