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graphics - 12/8/2014 10:37:04 AM   
jnpoint


Posts: 549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: Holstebro, Denmark
Status: offline 		In fact, I like the map and the small icons on the map (air bases, depot, railyards etc.).

But I think that it would bring more atmosphere though if there were some more animations. Fx a small man repairing the railroad, a small factory burning after an attack, some small men digging with spades when fortifications are build, a small train are transporting troops etc.

Just some small animations that could bring more life on the map.

That's just my thoughts.
Post #: 1
RE: graphics - 12/8/2014 7:17:27 PM   
jnpoint


Posts: 549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: Holstebro, Denmark
Status: offline 		Sorry, just saw while playing that a train transported my unit, but the train could be more train-like.

(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 2
RE: graphics - 12/8/2014 11:05:02 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe that will come out with the Railroad Tycoon mod

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 3
RE: graphics - 12/8/2014 11:30:43 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		I disagree with the Op.This is an old school hex based game.No need to clutter screen with extra graphics,keep it simple.

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 4
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 1:22:48 AM   
sfbaytf

 

Posts: 1122
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline 		For us old school people the old way isn't an issue. For a younger generation raised on GUIs and graphics it can be an issue. My nephew loves Combat Mission which is a complex sim. Its something he can relate to. Counters on a map no, he just doesn't have the interest. A friend who loves history and computer games that relates to history and combat takes one look at a sim like this and says its for old school gronards and passes. He's in his 40's.

I think if the added something simple and made it moddable it could add a lot of character. Combat Mission has out of the box graphics that are so-so, but the mooders have changed the look and made it a completely different game. If you like old school you can just switch back to what you're comfortable with.

People like us are getting older. I've seen a lot of tech and software companies who refused to acknowledge a changing world become irrelevant in a short time.

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 5
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 1:36:41 AM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		Would you say that chess or cheackers on pc should have fancy graphics?

(in reply to sfbaytf)
Post #: 6
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 1:51:47 AM   
sfbaytf

 

Posts: 1122
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline 		Many chess and checkers games you can download do indeed have creative and fancy graphics.

You can deny it all you want, but the fact of the matter is this is a niche product. I love it and so do many others, but its still small peanuts compared to the multi million/billion dollar industry that is moving in a different direction.

I get a sense there is a resistance based on a feeling that if you start adding any sort of graphics or change the formula it will lead down the path of becoming too mainstream and watered down. While there may be some validity to that it doesn't have to be that way. I don't think the OP is asking for cutting edge 3D graphics. I'm not either. Look at some of the other fine Matrix games that do have decent graphics that are not cutting edge.

Slitherine appears to be involved in War in the West, they have a decent graphics in many of their games. I don't have Battle Academy up and running, but the sort of graphics they use for that could be ported over to this.

Like it or not we live in a graphical world. I don't understand or relate to many of the changes taking place and the younger generations ways, but it is reality and ignoring it isn't going to make it go away.

Flight sims used to be top sellers and you had companies built around developing them, but the community got too insular and too set in their ways and look what happened.

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 7
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 2:22:15 AM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		I think graphics of little guys digging forts and such is kind of silly.Things like that are more suited to Civilization or another similar game.The game is good enough and detailed enough to stand on its own.

(in reply to sfbaytf)
Post #: 8
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 2:46:13 AM   
sfbaytf

 

Posts: 1122
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline 		Silly graphics are indeed suited to a different breed. I don't understand the tatoo craze the younger generation has taken a liking to, but lecturing them about it isn't going to get you far.

We may sit here in OUR IVORY TOWER smug in out ways and preaching our prowess that we have mastered War in the Pacific AE, yet a simple app like Battle Fleet is a top seller in the Apple ITunes store and is a top seller in the Google app store.

The irony in all of this is the simple graphics used in Battle Fleet or Navy Fleet could easily be used in a complex game like WitP or WitW and that could entice a younger generation to the joys of mastering a complex game with depth.

WitW is more than capable of running on a tablet or mobile device as is. Combine that with graphics from Battle Fleet and think about the possibilities.



< Message edited by sfbaytf -- 12/9/2014 4:07:53 AM >

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 9
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 5:52:22 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		The last thing I want is those kinds of things in a game like this. WitP AE has some combat graphic which would work in WitW, but that is about it.

Again this is a question of time and resources and what is important to do with them. Creating new games using this platform, improving under the hood routines, are far more important imho than seeing icons on a map doing things. If I want that I'll just play Civ

(in reply to sfbaytf)
Post #: 10
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 6:18:52 AM   
MrFreeze

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 6/10/2014
From: Vancouver BC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I think graphics of little guys digging forts and such is kind of silly.Things like that are more suited to Civilization or another similar game.The game is good enough and detailed enough to stand on its own.


I was looking at a map replacement for WITE (can't post the link but it's the first one on the mod sub menu), from my pov this map is much better than the original: it has colors, cities, a nice modern interface etc. I can understand (and I thank them) why developers are focusing on the gameplay and set of rules but I do believe that visual aspects are very important too. It's interesting, make it appealing then maybe it will stop to be a niche market. (I am not talking about meaningless 3D object on the map but to make the game more... 2014)

< Message edited by MrFreeze -- 12/9/2014 7:20:36 AM >

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 11
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 6:46:11 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		i also agree with poster, UI makes a lot of difference now days for the younger players who wish not only to have a good engine but maybe also to have eye candy as well, lets be honest here, most players are going to be in a certain age group, mostly male, if you want to reach a newer different target and get younger ages into games like this, you have to alter the old approach that one size fits all, it doesn't...

that's why games don't all use NATO symbols / counters, as not many newer players even know or wish to learn what they mean so it puts them off from day one, it's not Blasphemy to see things different from everyone else and suggest a different approach, narrow minds are what makes games like this sell in the hundreds and not in the 1000s, if you don't agree that's fine, as everyone is in entitled to there own opinions and tbh we are all right so there is no wrong answers, only questions

if the developer wished to make money, the game would never have been made either, and the time would have been better spent on a low budget first person shooter released on steam, low end would sell in the 1000s with medium end in the 10.000s so would have made more money either way.... just an idea / example not a suggestion either...

(in reply to MrFreeze)
Post #: 12
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 7:39:38 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		The issue is the graphics really do not matter as much as you think. No matter how great the graphics are it is the underlying mechanics that matter the most. Plus even if there all sorts of cute sprites in the game, that would not increase sales enough to matter. It is not like someone used to Civ, a RPG, etc. is going to pick up a game like this just because of graphics.

So the developers know their target market and know that spending time on cute graphics is not a good use of their limited resources. Even if enhanced graphic sold another 500 copies of the game it still would not be worth it.

Plus it has nothing to do with people being stuck in the past either. I find that comment condescending and adds nothing to the discussion btw. For the record I love graphic games. I'm playing Borderlands 2 right now as well and enjoy it a lot. Plus Panzer Corp, Battle Academy, etc. So I definitely appreciate the graphics in games. But just because a lot of games have them, does not mean ALL of them have to have them.

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 13
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 7:54:26 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		sorry wasn't meant to be or sound condescending either

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 14
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 8:56:12 AM   
jnpoint


Posts: 549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: Holstebro, Denmark
Status: offline 		I agree that this map is much better than WitE, but is it finished then? Is it as good as it can get?

I do respect that this is an old school war game and that the primary target group are old school war game players. I know that a simple and basic map has its advantages too.

I opened this thread because I miss tools to get an overview of what I have already done and what actually happened in the last game turn and also where it took place. There are many numbers, but visually almost nothing. That is my main purpose with this thread. I do not want to have silly icons on the map either, I want more visual HELP!

So it is not just eye candy, I am asking for, it is also and most of all a help.

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 15
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 9:04:40 AM   
fsp1978

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 5/2/2013
Status: offline 		I think games like WITW could do with small animations like in WITP:AE. Those are very, very nice and add a lot to the immersion. Some eye candy (and sounds) are really helpful. What I would also like for grognard games are some little screens or maybe even historic footage for say capturing Stalingrad, Moscow, Berlin, breaching the west wall, the first Russian winter arriving, etc.

I have no idea how many resources this will take up though.

But little men digging on the map are not my cup of tea either.

What I would wish for: Every strategy game should have the possibility to choose between NATO symbols and icons. While I for the life of me cannot understand why anyone would want icons, I have a couple of friends who flat-out refuse to play anything with NATO symbols. They would surely enjoy the underlying game, but the will not give it a go without icons. Driving me nuts.

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 16
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 9:10:02 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		jnpoint, i'd give up as to most your treading on holy ground, even suggesting the ability in some war games to remove the hexes gets stamped on, so to ask for extra bits and bobs that's the other 20 odd games in 20 series haven't got isn't going to happen, but to just either mod them yourself or give up asking, i found that out many posts ago here with some members tbh

sorry to have sounded condescending to some before, but change isn't a bad thing or devil worshipping either, or condescending to think out of the box or have others views, and is part of the discussion, not off topic, so just because it doesn't follow every ones point of view, doesn't mean its a bad thing either, so is a valid post and point and no i'm not going to change my views just because others don't agree of like them either, Google a debate or discussion,then try democracy and freedom of speech...

sorry jnpoint, your views are good and valid and i for one agree with them, but it seems the holy grail has been found already and doesn't need any alterations

(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 17
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 9:12:57 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fsp1978

I think games like WITW could do with small animations like in WITP:AE. Those are very, very nice and add a lot to the immersion. Some eye candy (and sounds) are really helpful. What I would also like for grognard games are some little screens or maybe even historic footage for say capturing Stalingrad, Moscow, Berlin, breaching the west wall, the first Russian winter arriving, etc.

I have no idea how many resources this will take up though.

But little men digging on the map are not my cup of tea either.

What I would wish for: Every strategy game should have the possibility to choose between NATO symbols and icons. While I for the life of me cannot understand why anyone would want icons, I have a couple of friends who flat-out refuse to play anything with NATO symbols. They would surely enjoy the underlying game, but the will not give it a go without icons. Driving me nuts.



there in luck then, as it's already been done

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3753980

one holy point been modernized for none war gamers to start to be able to even understand what units even mean, so thanks for the mod and share / post, hope others try it and post reviews so other none or new war gamers don't feel unwelcome either and won't give it a go...

as with all new stuff, not everyone like it, so it's an option, you can use them, or you don't have to, it's a choice, like better graphics, it's only a choice if it's offered, when it's not, you don't have the option to turn it on and use it or not...

that's my point, atmosphere, not 20 odd pages of stats, or you will bore some to death and never give it a go in the first place, as engine is great, but wont suit every one, a few tweaks and it could, first ones been done, now lets wait for the others

< Message edited by zakblood -- 12/9/2014 10:16:39 AM >

(in reply to fsp1978)
Post #: 18
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 9:23:32 AM   
jnpoint


Posts: 549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: Holstebro, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood


there in luck then, as it's already been done

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3753980

one holy point been modernized for none war gamers to start to be able to even understand what units even mean, so thanks for the mod and share / post, hope others try it and post reviews so other none or new war gamers don't feel unwelcome either and won't give it a go...

as with all new stuff, not everyone like it, so it's an option, you can use them, or you don't have to, it's a choice, like better graphics, it's only a choice if it's offered, when it's not, you don't have the option to turn it on and use it or not...

that's my point, atmosphere, not 20 odd pages of stats, or you will bore some to death and never give it a go in the first place, as engine is great, but wont suit every one, a few tweaks and it could, first ones been done, now lets wait for the others


Do these icons work with WitW also?

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 19
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 9:24:15 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		that's what they are for, but also
quote:

They are also WitE compatible.


quote:

Unzip to the Dat/Art/Units folder. The zip (next post) includes the originals renamed so no need to create your own backup.


< Message edited by zakblood -- 12/9/2014 10:26:17 AM >

(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 20
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 9:26:18 AM   
jnpoint


Posts: 549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: Holstebro, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fsp1978

I think games like WITW could do with small animations like in WITP:AE. Those are very, very nice and add a lot to the immersion. Some eye candy (and sounds) are really helpful. What I would also like for grognard games are some little screens or maybe even historic footage for say capturing Stalingrad, Moscow, Berlin, breaching the west wall, the first Russian winter arriving, etc.

I have no idea how many resources this will take up though.

But little men digging on the map are not my cup of tea either.

What I would wish for: Every strategy game should have the possibility to choose between NATO symbols and icons. While I for the life of me cannot understand why anyone would want icons, I have a couple of friends who flat-out refuse to play anything with NATO symbols. They would surely enjoy the underlying game, but the will not give it a go without icons. Driving me nuts.


I really love these games too, but I hate NATO symbols. But I have learned to live with that because I love to play games like WitW.

(in reply to fsp1978)
Post #: 21
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 9:28:43 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		i love all wargames, but do get frustrated not knowing at a glance what some units are, and too old now to learn new ones so like the choice which has been given here in this game....

once i get it, i'll play more with the editor than the game itself, but we all like what we like...

this is a great game, and will evolve into a classic

(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 22
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 9:32:00 AM   
fsp1978

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 5/2/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks so much for making these counters and for pointing me to them!

(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 23
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 9:40:25 AM   
Banquet

 

Posts: 1184
Joined: 8/23/2002
From: England
Status: offline 		I was thinking about the comparison between WitW and Hearts of Iron 4, where it looks like there will be no option for NATO counters and instead players will be forced to play with giant men and tanks running across a map of Europe. The map, while looking graphically sophisticated, looks more like something from Age of Empires or Civ than a serious WWII strategy game. As a Hearts of Iron fan, I'm disappointed with the direction they're taking and find it refreshing to play a wargame such as WitW, whose map I think is appealing to look at, functional and has that 'stare at it for hours planning strategies' factor which the HoI4 map, for all it's whizzbangery, completely lacks IMHO.

Maybe it's my age but WitW looks good to me, and exactly like a proper WWII wargame should look like. My only gripe is I wish there was just one more level of zoom. When looking at all the units coming ashore on D-Day I wish I could get just that little closer to see what's where.

< Message edited by Banquet -- 12/9/2014 10:43:33 AM >

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 24
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 9:42:30 AM   
fsp1978

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 5/2/2013
Status: offline 		I loved HOI1 and HOI2, didn't like HOI3. A serious strategy game without NATO counters is a no buy for me. But that's why I think game developers should always provide both options - icons and NATO counters. This cannot take up too many resources.

(in reply to Banquet)
Post #: 25
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 9:52:09 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		it's good to see so many new views on counters / icons and graphics, and some say they don't matter, well keep those views coming either way as it's a choice that's been offered, not many do give you that

and already seen a few that have said others wouldn't buy it without them

makes me so happy to read that

see jnpoint, you have opened a can of worms, and now the worm has turned

< Message edited by zakblood -- 12/9/2014 10:53:19 AM >

(in reply to fsp1978)
Post #: 26
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 9:58:31 AM   
jnpoint


Posts: 549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: Holstebro, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Banquet

I was thinking about the comparison between WitW and Hearts of Iron 4, where it looks like there will be no option for NATO counters and instead players will be forced to play with giant men and tanks running across a map of Europe. The map, while looking graphically sophisticated, looks more like something from Age of Empires or Civ than a serious WWII strategy game. As a Hearts of Iron fan, I'm disappointed with the direction they're taking and find it refreshing to play a wargame such as WitW, whose map I think is appealing to look at, functional and has that 'stare at it for hours planning strategies' factor which the HoI4 map, for all it's whizzbangery, completely lacks IMHO.

Maybe it's my age but WitW looks good to me, and exactly like a proper WWII wargame should look like. My only gripe is I wish there was just one more level of zoom. When looking at all the units coming ashore on D-Day I wish I could get just that little closer to see what's where.


I like both types of games, WitW and HoI, although I never liked HoI3 - don't know why. HoI 4 looks great to me (the graphics especially :) ) so I'm looking forward to that one. It has nothing to do with age, I am almost 50 myself.

I do agree that it would be nice with one more zoom level.

(in reply to Banquet)
Post #: 27
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 10:35:36 AM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		Most of the GUI is moddable and I have hinted in the Editor manual as to what is possible.  The setup in in WitW is very similar to WitE and Jison's mods show what can be done with time and application.  The only hardcode bit are the numbers that appear in F2/F3, AA and Depot symbols.

For the stylised counters that I made I deliberately chose to retain the outline of the NATO symbols as this meant that I did not have to embed alpha masks or reposition the unit size or soft factors and that saved hours of work that I'd rather be spending on other parts of the game - particularly as I love NATO counters. 

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 28
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 10:46:26 AM   
chemkid

 

Posts: 1238
Joined: 12/15/2012
Status: offline 		.

< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/25/2018 7:32:23 AM >

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 29
RE: graphics - 12/9/2014 10:54:15 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		for a game that uses terrain hight as it does, the heads worked for me, but not everyone cup of tea maybe

(in reply to chemkid)
Post #: 30
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