Role of different ship types

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Role of different ship types - 12/13/2014 9:59:00 AM

Passero82

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/13/2014
Status: offline

I am just beginning with DWU and I enjoy the game a lot!

I do have a question about the ship design. I don't really see a use for the different types of ships.
For example I could create the same design for a frigate as for a cruiser. Is there a difference in these types of ships that I just don't know about or are these just for "cosmetic" reasons?

Personally when I think about a frigate, it should be smaller than a cruiser however there does not seem to be a limitation on this so I am just wondering what the actual difference between these ships is in the game?

Post #: 1

RE: Role of different ship types - 12/13/2014 10:09:02 AM

Bingeling

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline

There is a difference in how the AI uses them. It orders ship classes according to set proportions, it has preferences to what ships go in which fleets in what number. It ought to prefer a more powerful ship to defend a more powerful object. That kind of stuff.

As you have seen nothing is enforced, and apart from some special ships (resupply, carrier...) the class does not really matter as long as you do stuff manually.

(in reply to Passero82)

Post #: 2

RE: Role of different ship types - 12/13/2014 10:55:32 AM

feygan

Posts: 323
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Passero82

I am just beginning with DWU and I enjoy the game a lot!

I do have a question about the ship design. I don't really see a use for the different types of ships.
For example I could create the same design for a frigate as for a cruiser. Is there a difference in these types of ships that I just don't know about or are these just for "cosmetic" reasons?

Personally when I think about a frigate, it should be smaller than a cruiser however there does not seem to be a limitation on this so I am just wondering what the actual difference between these ships is in the game?

You are entirely correct that there is no difference between the types. As far as the military ships are concerned, your player empire can have designs of any type and any size you desire. The only limitation you have is the overall size of a design based on your technology level.

But even at the lowest level you can make frigates, cruisers, destroyers, and capital ships. If you wanted you could actually make a frigate design then make 3 copies of that design, for each copy you simply change the design type so you have one of each of the ship types. I can't think of any reason you would ever do such a thing but it serves to illustrate how flexible the ship design system is.

It is confusing at first as generally we have all been spoonfed ideas by 4X games on what a frigate/cruiser/etc is, and how it works or what it is used for. Once you forget all that and realise that DW adopts a sandbox approach, things become far better. In DW the game simply says "here are all your toys, go play your own game however you like" It is a winning idea that I feel should be used by all 4X games.

(in reply to Passero82)

Post #: 3

RE: Role of different ship types - 12/13/2014 3:05:48 PM

Cauldyth

Posts: 752
Joined: 6/27/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: feygan
In DW the game simply says "here are all your toys, go play your own game however you like" It is a winning idea that I feel should be used by all 4X games.

Yeah, whereas many 4X games seem to be heading towards the boardgame end of the strategy spectrum (tight rules optimized for balance and efficient play), DW makes a bee line for the complete opposite end of the spectrum, simulation. "Let's simulate all the different aspects of the world, and just see what happens."

And god do I love it. I just can't go back to boardgame-style 4X games anymore. They just feel so overly contrived, with arbitrary rules and disappointing abstractions.

(in reply to feygan)

Post #: 4

RE: Role of different ship types - 12/13/2014 7:20:23 PM

BTAxis

Posts: 109
Joined: 6/4/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: feygan
You are entirely correct that there is no difference between the types. As far as the military ships are concerned, your player empire can have designs of any type and any size you desire. The only limitation you have is the overall size of a design based on your technology level.

There are a few exceptions to this, in that some types (scout, carrier, resupply) come with built-in rules about what you have to put on them.

Also, in respect to the argument of freeing the player from conventional restrictions, I sometimes still feel limited by the types as they work now. For instance I tend to design two different scout types: one regular type to survey unknown systems, and one type decked out with long range scanners and solar panels which I park around planetless stars to serve as my eyes and ears.

The way ship retrofitting works means it's difficult to maintain these two designs side by side as retrofitting will always choose the most recent design in that type. It's possible to work around this by re-saving the design so it's the most recent, but it's clear the game expects you to only have one non-obsolete design per type. Also, the game REQUIRES I put a resource scanner on my intel design, because it's a scout. I could use an escort type instead, but then the game REQUIRES it have a weapon, because it's a combat ship.

If I were to redesign DW, I'd try to come up with a system that frees players to make however many designs they wish and designate them however they want, while at the same time encouraging diverse ship loadouts.

(in reply to feygan)

Post #: 5

RE: Role of different ship types - 12/13/2014 8:07:06 PM

Bingeling

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline

More ship classes have probably been on the wish list since early vanilla days...

It could be a configurable layer above the current ones, making no difference for the AI. The human has two explorer classes, not very supported by the screens, and both equal exploration ships if the AI get hold of them. But "explorer A" type ships will only retrofit to designs of the "explorer A" class.

The AI will build a more or less random exploration ship if asked to, just like it will today (the newest design).

We can hope for a better system in the successor, whatever that one will be like.

(in reply to BTAxis)

Post #: 6