Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Combat is kicking my...

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds 1 Series >> The War Room >> Combat is kicking my... Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Combat is kicking my... - 6/9/2015 10:11:01 PM   
memilanuk

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 6/9/2015
Status: offline
So... interesting forum software. Had a big long post, got blocked for something about a link (wasn't any that I was aware of; think it misinterpreted one of the smileys as a link), and went back and lost everything. Nice.

Now straight to the cliff-notes version: How do I go to war and attack just *one* system or region, and take it over, in a timely fashion? I'm getting my teeth kicked in taking on empires half my size/stats because I can't clinch the deal and take their colonies. Time and again, I either end up screwing around until I lose some of my turf, or best-case-scenario, a nearby rival sneaks in and grabs the contested colony away from my opponent.

I've mucked about with various settings including how much to automate the war / combat actions, trying everything from full to suggestions to manual, fleet stances, blockading, loading troops (having trouble getting full loadouts, missing something there) but nothing seems to reliably work. Maybe one time in ten I actually get an option to bombard, despite having bombard weapons researched. Doesn't matter if I have a fleet of 50+ or a strike force of 10... about all I get done is harassing mining and research stations and space ports. Can't seem to take a colony away from anyone...???

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

< Message edited by memilanuk -- 6/9/2015 11:11:37 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Combat is kicking my... - 6/10/2015 12:44:35 AM   
Radishgast


Posts: 24
Joined: 6/20/2014
Status: offline
I'm a bit unclear if you're having trouble with the strategy or the logistics of conquering planets from other empires, so I figured I'd give you a general rundown of my approach. (I always have everything set to manual, so all my advice will be based on doing everything yourself)

For a planetary assault fleet, my usual strategy is to design heavily shielded and armored troop transport ships, with lots of troop compartments, some light weaponry, and lots of fuel. I keep this fleet separate from main battle fleets, and don't involve it in major fights unless forced too. I recruit troops from a batch of planets all relatively close together, move the fleet near this location, and once I'm doing building, I tell it to load troops from nearest colony. It will take a few months, but that command will gather all the troops I've recruited. At this point, I refuel and it's ready to go.

The best way to take over an enemy system is to establish control of the system, by sending your battle fleet there and clearing all enemy ships and space ports out of the way. I'll usually have my troop transport fleet, filled to the brim with troops, waiting just behind the main fleet outside the system. Once it's clear, I send them in, land troops and maintain space control for the bonus it imbues to ground force fighting on the system. I don't really have a magic number of troops, but I tend to overboard in case there's a hefty garrison on the planet I want. (Include a bunch of mech and special forces for the combat bonus, as well)

You'll have to have defenses set up in your own territory, in order to harry any fleets they send to you. Setting up a couple of fast response patrol fleets, set in defensive posture should work pretty well. I would also recommend arming any mining stations near the border with your enemy, and reinforcing any key points along your invasion route. (Such as an important caslon mine for refueling near enemy territory)

Setting up mutual-defense packs with an empire who a) likes you, and b) is close enough to help defend you or distract your enemy, is a good way of covering your back when you're at war with someone. Use your ambassador to boost relations with the person you want as your ally, and send them gifts, free-trade agreements, trade ultra-rare luxuries, etc.

Let us know if there's any other specifics you have questions about.

Edit- I also don't usually bother with bombarding. The AI can set up planetary shields, nullifying a bombardment strategy. I just recruit an obscene amount of troops and overwhelm the defending planet's ground forces.

< Message edited by Radishgast -- 6/10/2015 1:46:11 AM >

(in reply to memilanuk)
Post #: 2
RE: Combat is kicking my... - 6/10/2015 1:50:25 AM   
memilanuk

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 6/9/2015
Status: offline
Hmmm... dedicated planetary invasion fleet... I see.

Guess I was thinking in terms of attacking/invading in Sins of a Solar Empire... way less detail oriented. Obviously, it's not working here. Similarly, the whole refueling thing keeps biting me in the behind... not something I'm used to keeping track of.

I suppose I'll have to start over - again - and manually build the fleet(s) from scratch. Seems like it could get kind of tedious... I don't suppose there is any way to search for/find all the ships of a given type? When they are all mobbed around a space port it's pretty hard to dig out just the troop transports or resupply ships. Used to be (I think) in Homeworld you could click a unit, and then hit a shortcut to select *all* similar units at the same time i.e. select *all* troop transports, making it easier to dump them all into a fleet post-hoc.

(in reply to Radishgast)
Post #: 3
RE: Combat is kicking my... - 6/10/2015 2:07:13 AM   
Radishgast


Posts: 24
Joined: 6/20/2014
Status: offline
Yeah, I find dedicating fleets to specific types is the most efficient way to tackle organization in this game.

Refueling can get a little crazy, as your fleets and fuel tanks get larger as the game goes on. The best way I find to solve this is to design a dedicated "refueling station" base, preferably built over a sole caslon (or whatever type your fleets uses) source, so it doesn't soak up anything into it's cargo bays but the fuel your fleets use).

I use defensive base as the base template, add lots of gas extractors, cargo bays and docking bays, but NO commerce center so your civilian fleet won't try and ship the fuel away. This base then becomes one massive refueling depot, which I like to station near potential rivals or next to my large spaceports to refuel newly-built fleets.

If your building this station near combat zones or potential rivals, arm it to the teeth with shields and weapons.

Once you have a string of these built, you just need to tell your fleets to refuel specifically at these bases, since the AI can be a little wonky if you just tell it to refuel anywhere. Once you get the hang of this, it becomes very easy to keep your fleets fueled and ready to fight.

Regarding finding ships of a specific type- there's a special sort screen for just that. Press F11 and you can sort by whatever type you want in the upper right. You can then further sort that list by size, design type, maintenance cost, etc. Makes grouping specific ships together in fleets quite simple.


Edit- One more way to alleviate fuel problems in the middle-late game is to switch all of your state ships and bases over to one fuel source. I usually stick with caslon, since I've already built lots of refueling stations over caslon sources as stated above. I then switch over all my civilian ships and bases to use helium, once those reactors are available.

This tactic assumes you design and upgrade all your own ship designs, which I love to do. So it might not be for everyone, but it will certainly help keep all your ships fueled up.

< Message edited by Radishgast -- 6/10/2015 3:09:55 AM >

(in reply to memilanuk)
Post #: 4
RE: Combat is kicking my... - 6/10/2015 2:27:55 AM   
memilanuk

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 6/9/2015
Status: offline
Yeah... re-designing every single nut and bolt I need to use kind of turns things into a snoozer for me

Is there a way to save the designs from one game to the next, so you don't have to duplicate the work every time? That might make it at least tolerable.

Thanks for the tip on the Search/Sort screen... that helps a bunch.

(in reply to Radishgast)
Post #: 5
RE: Combat is kicking my... - 6/10/2015 2:33:10 AM   
Aeson

 

Posts: 784
Joined: 8/30/2013
Status: offline
As far as 'magic numbers' of troops, I generally aim for a minimum strength two to three times greater than the strength of the defending army (you will need to have at least one ship in system in order to determine this). Preferably higher, if I want to win the invasion quickly or am unsure of whether or not the enemy will be able to drop additional troops on the planet before it falls.

Remember that Planetary Defense Units can shoot at units before they touch down (both invading troops and reinforcements to the defenders), that Armored units can provide the 'Armored Breakthrough' bonus (+25% strength) if present in sufficient quantity, that native planet types provide a 10% bonus to the troops and non-native planet types can provide a 10% penalty (e.g. Ackdarian troops will get a 10% bonus on ocean worlds while Naxxilian troops will get a 10% bonus on ice worlds; note that the bonus or penalty appears to be per unit rather than 'if you bring enough the whole army gets the bonus' and the displayed bonus is an average over all the troops deployed), and that Special Forces are capable of destroying facilities on the planet during an invasion.

Also note that each troop type has a different quality level and may require a different amount of space on the troop transports. Armor requires 200 space on the transports, infantry and special forces 100, planetary defense units 400. Armor is very strong offensively but offers less defensive strength for the cost than infantry and cost twice the maintenance. Special Forces are stronger than infantry offensively and equal defensively, but (like armor) cost twice the upkeep of infantry. Planetary defense units cost four times the upkeep of infantry and are generally weaker, but offer the ability to shoot down troops before their landing pods reach the ground (i.e. before the opponent can fight back); I believe this holds true when the PDUs are in the invasion force and the defenders attempt to reinforce, though I'm not sure and I wouldn't bring PDUs along for an invasion for that anyways (the strength per transport capacity of a PDU is grossly inefficient by comparison to the other three troop types).

A further note on troops: you must have sufficient capacity on a single transport to fit a unit. You cannot split a single unit across multiple transports; that fleet with 520 transport capacity spread equally between two troop ships effectively has 400 troop capacity, because at 260 troop capacity per transport you're only going to be taking 4 infanty/special forces units, 2 armor units, or 1 armor and 2 infantry/special forces units, and you're not going to fit a PDU. Troop allocation in the fleet menu is by size, incidentally, so 50% armor, 25% infantry, 25% special forces on a fleet with 400 capacity will reserve 200 transport capacity for armor, 100 transport capacity for infantry, and 100 transport capacity for special forces. If ordered to pick up troops at a planet which does not have sufficient troops to fill this out, the transports will initially only load troops up to the reserved amounts, but if ordered to load troops again at worlds which cannot fill out the required loadout the transports will eventually take the hint and just pick up everyone they can carry. Also be advised that how your transports are loaded can matter; if your standard troop ship has 200 capacity, then if it picks up 1 infantry or special forces unit it cannot load armored units. This can occasionally cause annoyances with leaving high-volume troops (armor and PDUs) behind despite having the capacity in the fleet to carry them simply because too many of the transports picked up an extra infantry/special forces unit or something like that. It also makes the total fleet troop capacity somewhat deceptive, as noted earlier.

Also remember that the troops of different species have different base statistics. If you're recruiting green troops, Naxxilians, Boskarans, and Mortalens have roughly twice the strength of the equivalent Teekan, Atuuk, or Ketarov troops. There's a list of base troop strengths here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3529930

Infantry units multiply those base values by 100/100, armor multiplies those base values by 300/150, special forces multiply those base values by 200/100, and planetary defense units multiply those base values by 50/75 to get attack/defense strengths (note: don't use the ratio; multiply by the first value for attack strength and by the second for defense strength). The researchable attack and defense bonuses are a further multiplier, if I recall correctly, though they apply only to newly recruited troops.

quote:

Edit- I also don't usually bother with bombarding. The AI can set up planetary shields, nullifying a bombardment strategy. I just recruit an obscene amount of troops and overwhelm the defending planet's ground forces.

The other issue with bombardment is that if you only have one or two bombardment weapons per ship (which is normal for computer designs unless it happens to have Shaktur FireStorm torpedoes), it'll take obscene numbers of ships, obscene amounts of time, or both to actually bombard a colony to death. The unmodded game's bombardment weapons are only killing off 0.5 to 5.22 million people every real-world second per weapon at normal game speed; a large colony's natural population growth could counteract that to a significant degree.

I will say, though, that the computer doesn't really like planetary shields that much; it tends to prefer bunkers even if it has access to both.

Regardless, there is one bombardment strategy that cannot be nullified by planetary shields, though it doesn't leave you with a colony to conquer (or a world to settle) afterwards. Planet killers are not something you can count on obtaining in any given game (I think there's a maximum of four or so of them on the largest map size with the greatest number of planets and all the storylines enabled, down to 0-1 of them on the smallest map size with the fewest planets and all storylines enabled, and without the right storylines you won't have any at all), unless you're playing with the Ancient Galaxy theme (which makes the Super Laser into a weapon you can obtain by standard research), but they'll blow a shielded planet to bits as easily as they'll blow an unshielded planet. Grand Moff Tarkin endorses (er, endorsed) this bombardment strategy; I'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong.

quote:

(Such as an important caslon mine for refueling near enemy territory)

Personally, I would tend to suggest also having a couple Resupply Ships on standby to temporarily replace any key fuel mines that are lost or to set up in hostile space, if your ship ranges and speeds are such that fuel is a concern. The ships tend to be lost less often (they can run and they tend to be roughly as powerful as a fortified mine), and they take less time to deploy than it takes to build a new station. They're also a more reliable solution for advanced fueling points in hostile space than capturing foreign bases; it's very easy to cripple something to the point of near uselessness when you're trying to capture it.

quote:

Setting up mutual-defense packs with an empire who a) likes you, and b) is close enough to help defend you or distract your enemy, is a good way of covering your back when you're at war with someone. Use your ambassador to boost relations with the person you want as your ally, and send them gifts, free-trade agreements, trade ultra-rare luxuries, etc.

But remember to look at who they do and don't like before agreeing to an MDP. The best alliance partners will be both well-positioned and friendly with most or all of your friends. If gaining an ally has a decent chance of creating a new enemy or turning an old friend into a neutral (or worse, a hostile) party due to poor relations between the potential ally and the other empire, think carefully before signing the paper. Maybe the Naxxilians are a decent alliance prospect against your Boskaran neighbors, but if they're on terrible terms with your neutral-to-slightly-friendly Quameno neighbors, it might not be worth the potential war with the Quameno just to have the Naxxilians on your side when the fight with the Boskarans comes.

quote:

Is there a way to save the designs from one game to the next, so you don't have to duplicate the work every time? That might make it at least tolerable.

Yes, there is. There are a couple ways to do it. The more difficult way would be to find the design templates in C:\Matrix Games\Distant Worlds Universe\designTemplates (default directory) and edit those to your liking. Alternatively, in the Ship Designs screen there are two buttons: Save Selected Designs and Load Designs. I've never used them, but if I'm not mistaken they're the easier but less flexible way to do what you're looking for.

< Message edited by Aeson -- 6/10/2015 3:37:10 AM >

(in reply to Radishgast)
Post #: 6
RE: Combat is kicking my... - 6/10/2015 4:04:41 AM   
memilanuk

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 6/9/2015
Status: offline
Alrighty... looks like I'm going to have to buckle down and take a slower-paced and more deliberate approach to the game.

On the plus side... I finally managed to successfully take my first system (in an embarrassing number of hours played) with very little trouble. An invasion fleet of troop transports and a couple resupply ships all loaded to the gills, a few more resupply ships seeded near the border, various fleets switched to defensive stance and used as nodal defense points around the perimeter, and a main assault fleet that rolled in and cleaned things out for the invasion fleet.

Sweet!

Managed to do it without having to roll up my sleeves and tinker with the ship designs. I know some people dig that sort of thing; I'm just not one of them.

(in reply to Aeson)
Post #: 7
RE: Combat is kicking my... - 6/10/2015 4:32:45 AM   
Radishgast


Posts: 24
Joined: 6/20/2014
Status: offline
Congrats, Memilanuk! There is so much to learn in this game, and it can be quite daunting when you first dive in.

And everyone has their own unique play-style, so you just have to find what you enjoy most in the game and go with that.

I'm glad you succeeded in your first conquest. Feel free to ask for help any time.

(in reply to memilanuk)
Post #: 8
RE: Combat is kicking my... - 6/10/2015 2:13:13 PM   
Bingeling

 

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: memilanuk

Yeah... re-designing every single nut and bolt I need to use kind of turns things into a snoozer for me


You don't have to redesign anything, but for the more extreme settings min-maxing may be needed. A small base to put above any colony, or an exploration ship design with a long range scanner, may be two instances where I do a quick design job myself.

Keep troop transports in separate fleets as said above. Give the transport fleet a leader that does not carry troops himself. Which ships have troop compartments depends on which race (and mod) you use. This allows you to abuse the fact that a fleeted ship always wants to move to its leader if it have no other order. For instance, you need 2 transports to attack a lightly defended colony. Order two fleet transports (with troops) to attack, and they will do their attack and then move back to the leader. Just make sure not to order the fleet itself around while members are on 'special missions'. In this way your transports won't hang around at the target, a location that is likely to see enemy ships arrive. My transports should not be involved in space combat.

There is a special filter in the ship list for ships that carry troops, I forget the name of the choice. I often have transports leave the fleet and automate them if they are empty and there is issues filling them with a single load order. The AI will run around and find troops. Then add them from the same list when full and they move back to the troop fleet. If you have for instance cruisers and capitals interfering with this list (they have room for troops), just abuse the various sorting that can be done. On ship type, and on fleet.

If you run with most if not all ships in fleets, it is easy to find the non-fleeted ships from the ship list. Just sort on fleet. Fleet management is most easily done by the ship list. When you order ships, use the fact that by the default sorting, newly ordered ships are either at the top, or more likely at the bottom of the ship list. So order for instance the 10 destroyers for your new fleet. Open ship list, filter military ships, scroll to the bottom (if they are not at the top). Click the top, new destroyer, then shift-click the bottom one to select them all. And create the fleet for them with the pulldown. You can then use the button to view the fleet, give it a name that makes sense, and do anything else with it. Not that it can do much until the ships are actually built.

For me fleet management becomes a minor annoyance if I for instance have battle fleets of 14 cruisers and 3 carriers, and they have lost a few ships each. Some cruisers and some carriers. Adding the missing ships to each fleet is one of the very few situations in this game where I may take notes outside the game.

(in reply to memilanuk)
Post #: 9
RE: Combat is kicking my... - 6/18/2015 9:59:32 PM   
Twigster

 

Posts: 1023
Joined: 1/13/2015
Status: offline
Not sure why player experience would differ greatly here but in my Shadows games and my Universe games the AI has no problem at all putting up Planetary Shields- or other facilities. In fact, at Extreme difficulty, major planetary battles can actually be quite intense.

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 10
RE: Combat is kicking my... - 6/27/2015 1:32:23 AM   
NephilimNexus

 

Posts: 194
Joined: 9/2/2014
Status: offline
Just researching orbital bombardment does nothing if you don't actually put those weapons on your ships. Trusting the AI to design your ships or fight wars for you is like asking a deep sea tube worm to do brain surgery. Sorry, but there is no real way around doing your own designs unless you want to get creamed every time.

I have beaten 1400 star maps, 15 x 15 sectors, max size against 17 opponents. At no point do I ever field more than 20 combat ships at a time. At no point did my army ever exceed 24 infantry units. No tanks, no special forces - just infantry. Entire operation was divided into exactly 2 fleets. And I started as a Pirate.

That is the power that manual control gives you. So yes, you do want to design your own ships and direct your own fleets around the map. It makes all the difference.


(in reply to Twigster)
Post #: 11
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds 1 Series >> The War Room >> Combat is kicking my... Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.922