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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Close Combat Series >> Close Combat - Gateway to Caen >> Tech Support >> Piat

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Piat - 12/24/2015 7:38:28 AM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
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been playing the allies in a GC for awhile now. played a couple of GC as the germans before this.
what im seeing is the Piat is pretty useless. [ still...like all the other CC games, unless modded. ] the allies get a Piat squad with every inf platoon. not sure why. they may as well have rocks. its highly inaccurate. and if it hits it usually does nothing.

tonite I missed a panther 3 out 6 shots at 43 M....ya 43 M....one shot it missed by 100 M.....and for the record it was not seen and no one was shooting at it....I did hit the other 3 times, which surprised me based on my other experiences with them, BUT, you guessed it....NO damage at all.

so im thinking BUG??? maybe we can check the data? I believe the Piat can pen 300 MM of armour at any range...if my memory serves me. its has a very high penetration I know that. the german faust if the german squad uses it, takes out allied tanks with ease.
the german shreak is pretty useless as well. highly inaccurate. don't think I hit any tanks with it. so never take them any more, unless im desperate.

why is it that in CC the allied piat is always ****?
can we check the data and or tweak it for the next and probably the last patch? maybe the shreak as well?? there is such a thing as Playability...

< Message edited by STIENER -- 12/24/2015 8:44:17 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Piat - 12/25/2015 12:27:16 PM

SchnelleMeyer

Posts: 221
Joined: 3/26/2014
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From war history online:

"There were also problems with its penetrative power; although the PIAT was theoretically able to penetrate approximately 100 millimetres (4 in) of armour, field experience during the Allied invasion of Sicily, which was substantiated by trials conducted during 1944, confirmed otherwise. During these trials, a skilled user was unable to hit a target more than 60% of the time at 100 yards (90 m), and faulty fuses meant that only 75% of the bombs fired detonated on-target."

Game data on the PIAT in GtC:
Base accuracy: 398 (90%)

Range PB, Close, Medium, Long modifier: 30, 50, 80, 110

Penetration: 102mm

This means a fully experienced gunner firing at a non-moving vehicle at point blank range ,in this case less than 30m, has a 90% chance at hitting.
At close range 31-50m) the chances decreases significantly: 48% (398x5/8=249)
and again in medium range (51 - 80m) : 17% (398x3/5= 149)
For Long range (81-110m) : 2% (398x1/5=50)

- The mechanism for the first round was changed in LSA i believe, so this might not pan out for the first shot of the weapon in LSA and later releases.

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 2

RE: Piat - 12/26/2015 5:22:09 PM

SteveMcClaire

Posts: 4472
Joined: 11/19/2007
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And the Panther has more than 120mm of effective armor from the front, so you'd need a critical hit to penetrate with a PIAT. If you can catch one from the side you should easily get a penetration, or alternately put the PIAT in a multi-story building where it can get a better angle vs. the sloped hull armor of the Panther (and possibly a top hit at close range.)

Steve

(in reply to SchnelleMeyer)

Post #: 3

RE: Piat - 12/29/2015 8:06:29 AM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline

and what about playability and actual game function??
20 m diff in range and accuracy drops 42% ...seriously?

shreak accuracy?

< Message edited by STIENER -- 12/29/2015 9:06:55 AM >

(in reply to SteveMcClaire)

Post #: 4

RE: Piat - 12/29/2015 5:29:33 PM

vobbnobb

Posts: 103
Joined: 9/23/2013
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I was able to penetrate a panther with piat frontal, with first shots at least 2 times but the range was very close and I was in ambush mode. Most likely top hit as well when I was in a building

< Message edited by vobbnobb -- 12/29/2015 6:51:23 PM >

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 5

RE: Piat - 12/30/2015 12:08:25 PM

SchnelleMeyer

Posts: 221
Joined: 3/26/2014
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Steiner, I understand you would like to hit more panzers:) - You could go ahead and download the workbook and edit the values for yourself - its no big deal.

Panzerschreck has same base accuracy, but the Range modifier values are: 20, 50, 100 and 150m

Penetration is 160mm

(in reply to vobbnobb)

Post #: 6

RE: Piat - 1/5/2016 7:36:12 AM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
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yes we want to hit more panzers but that not the reason im posting again about the piat and the shreak. PLAYABILITY is the prime reason for trying to point out the short comings of the game. you CANNOT always use the historical data to simulate weapon function in a GAME. the data needs to be tweaked in order to build a game that is FUN and PLAYIBLE and some what / mostly historical.

(in reply to SchnelleMeyer)

Post #: 7

RE: Piat - 1/5/2016 8:16:05 AM

SchnelleMeyer

Posts: 221
Joined: 3/26/2014
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Sorry If I interrupted something here Steiner - Just tried to help with the frustrations...

I agree somewhat to the playability point especially in multiplayer games. But this issue will always be a difficult balance: Historical vs Gaming. - If, say Matrix "balanced" something in the game data, I think a lot of players would object because it has an impact on other aspects of the game as well.
- I am the kind that very much enjoys a high degree of historical accuracy. Be it weapons, armour or campaign data. I like trying to find a way to overcome historical challenges like me having worse armour or men than the enemy, but better fire support and so forth.
One of the best features of CC is its ease of modding imo. This means its very easy to tweak most any part of the game to ones preference. - If you dont like the lack of killing power for Piats - Change it! Its a simple operation and you can send the .txt files to your multiplayerbuddy and have equal possiblilities to get a kill with Shreck and Piat!

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 8

RE: Piat - 1/5/2016 9:05:46 AM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline

NP....all feed back is good.
people pay good money for a game they shouldn't have to mod themselves. balance in the game should have already been play tested and done. theres so many issues in this game ...GWTC.. that are not even close to being historical accurate its not funny.
the tank dance alone kills this game. its astounding how bad it is. the weapon accuracy is another. im assuming you have played GWTC in multiplayer?
its the most unfinished and un tested game in the CC series so far. LSA wasn't too bad....the options are great, and then left out, because the it was decided they were too difficult to figure out how to use. that's what a manuals for I think. PITF and GWTC have gone down hill since LSA.

there will be one patch coming out for GWTC before its forgotten, there is time for matrix to tweak and fix some issues and playability if they take buyers suggestions and concerns seriously. time will tell but ive been down this road before with CC.

(in reply to SchnelleMeyer)

Post #: 9

RE: Piat - 1/5/2016 2:47:48 PM

SchnelleMeyer

Posts: 221
Joined: 3/26/2014
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Agree - players should not have to mod the game out of the box. - But balance is more than accuracy of the individual weapon. - I dont think it would be right to make a 6pdr penetrate the glacis of a Panther just because the Panthers high-velocity gun can pen the Cromwells frontal armour at all combat ranges. - What Im saying is that "balancing" a game that is trying to be a tactical simulator is not very simple - Were do you draw the line with balancing ?

I think they changed the 1. round - "to hit" probability in LSA - That was a mistake imo. - As long as it doesnt take range into account.. - But I dont know the exact mechanics of it - Maybe Steve could comment on that?
Agree on taking away the really good features from LSA - Mistake too.
I really hope they will fix the unrealistic speed limit of vehicles... - See my post on that issue...
Multiplayer - tbh I did try - but gave up because of the lobby and problems connecting- I play the other CC games on Gameranger instead..

< Message edited by SchnelleMeyer -- 1/5/2016 3:51:46 PM >

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 10

RE: Piat - 1/5/2016 7:47:23 PM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline

what name do u go by on GR? perhaps we can play some LSA?

(in reply to SchnelleMeyer)

Post #: 11

RE: Piat - 1/8/2016 1:14:24 PM

SchnelleMeyer

Posts: 221
Joined: 3/26/2014
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Yes, Steiner that would be great fun!

PM sent!