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Next generation air dominance... - 2/7/2016 6:41:59 PM

Jagdtiger14

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Of course its only as good as the civilian leadership that wields it:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2016/02/grumman-will-show-off-its-sixth.html

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/8/2016 4:37:31 AM

radic202

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Awesome article, thanks for sharing!

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/8/2016 6:57:40 AM

Jim D Burns

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This is the true next gen in air combat, but they keep trying to kill the project, even trying to turn it into a museum exhibit at one point. Without the need for a pilot there is a lot of stuff that doesn't need to go into the design, and g force performance is limited only by what the hardware can stand up to. No piloted airframe can ever hope to compete with such design freedoms.

But there are a lot of industry people who don't want to see the contracts for pilot specific hardware in all our aircraft lost when we switch to a near 100% drone fleet, so resistance to the project has plagued its development. Once the military accepts that this is the future of air combat and forces the industry to let go of the concept of piloted aircraft I think we will see huge innovations in designs and performance in a very short period of time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_X-47B

Jim

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/8/2016 8:38:48 AM

zakblood

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imo there will always be human hands on, but yes agree it doesn't need to be in the airframe either

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/8/2016 2:45:06 PM

CGGrognard

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Could a human pilot actually "keep up" with the demands of an aircraft of this type? Considering the "high tech" helmets the pilots will wear for the JSF35, it seems tech is outpacing the human ability to dogfight. Will dogfights actually be a thing by 2035?

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/8/2016 3:41:18 PM

PipFromSlitherine

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Unpiloted aircraft are really going to get people to understand the idea of lag, that's for sure. It's all good until you need to dogfight I guess.

Cheers

Pip

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/8/2016 4:14:51 PM

CGGrognard

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This article highlights the weapons limitations on the F22&35 and therefore an idea the Air Force is floating. A flying arsenal.
Arsenal Planes

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/8/2016 7:49:05 PM

Jim D Burns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine
Unpiloted aircraft are really going to get people to understand the idea of lag, that's for sure.

No lag at all, it is capable of identifying and targeting hostile targets on its own.

Several articles on the airframe:
http://www.gizmag.com/tag/x-47b/

According to one of the articles I read a year or two ago (couldn't find the specific article) on the above site, the drone is capable of flying itself, making its own decisions, recognizing and neutralizing threats, and taking off and landing on an aircraft carrier.

It would have to be autonomous as ground control signals could be blocked or worse hijacked and control of the airframe lost. So think of them as preprogramed weapon packages that patrol their assigned zones and attack targets of opportunity on their own.

Jim

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/8/2016 8:01:14 PM

Lecivius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

It would have to be autonomous as ground control signals could be blocked or worse hijacked and control of the airframe lost. So think of them as preprogramed weapon packages that patrol their assigned zones and attack targets of opportunity on their own.

Jim

This doesn't make you a might nervous?

Attachment (1)

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/8/2016 8:09:13 PM

Jim D Burns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius
This doesn't make you a might nervous?

Skynet lives! LOL

Sure a bit, but just like the driverless cars they are developing I'm sure the kinks will be worked out eventually. As long as there is always a way for ground crews to stop a weapons launch and force an abort I'm sure eventually Drones will be accepted. Oversight of the decisions it makes is all that is needed, the hard part is allowing us to interfere with a launch if needed, but preventing an enemy from being able to do the same.

Jim

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/8/2016 9:54:21 PM

PipFromSlitherine

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How do you stop a weapon launch when there would be a 4-6 seconds (min) lag just for the operator to know what was going on and the cancel code to go back (ignoring human reaction time)? I guess you can have a general "permission to fire" query, but then as said the issue of jamming or hacking comes up.

Now, having an onboard pilot who DOESN'T cost $25M to train (or whatever) but is more there for guidance could work, but then we're back to G-limits etc.

To quote an expert:

Howard Marner: What if it goes out and melts down a bus load of nuns? How would you like to write the headline on that one?
Benjamin Jabituya: Nun soup?

Cheers

Pip

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/8/2016 10:24:15 PM

Jim D Burns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

How do you stop a weapon launch when there would be a 4-6 seconds (min) lag just for the operator to know what was going on and the cancel code to go back (ignoring human reaction time)? I guess you can have a general "permission to fire" query, but then as said the issue of jamming or hacking comes up.

Now, having an onboard pilot who DOESN'T cost $25M to train (or whatever) but is more there for guidance could work, but then we're back to G-limits etc.

To quote an expert:
Howard Marner: What if it goes out and melts down a bus load of nuns? How would you like to write the headline on that one?
Benjamin Jabituya: Nun soup?

My guess would be there would always be a query for any ground target that required human interaction before it took a shot, as there generally isn't an urgent, every second counts, time requirement there. Only air combat would be fully automated I'd think, and its easy enough to exclude auto-fire for any airframe large enough to be a passenger jet.

Jim

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/8/2016 11:30:48 PM

PipFromSlitherine

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While that's one of the key issues to prevent, there is still the "fires on approaching aircraft wrongly and starts a war" possibility. Hell, think of the regimes that would love the cover of a "bug" when they shoot something down

.

It's defintely going to be the shape of things to come, but I think it won't be the tech that retards its deployment.

Now, I'm off to patent my air defense concept of single missiles which remain aloft indefinitely in stealthed, semi-boyant (with solar powered motors for slow redeployment and position holding) cradles. That this just made me think of

.

Cheers

Pip

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/9/2016 12:05:57 AM

Zap

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Cars that drive themselves came upon faster then we thought. (drone)Armies that fight themselves or us are just around the corner. What will that all mean? So many unanswered Moral questions and unthinkable scenarios placing men against machines.

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/9/2016 2:26:24 PM

CGGrognard

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Zap; maybe it means that future wars will be fought like those in the original Star Trek episode "A Taste of Armageddon".
A Taste of Armageddon

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/9/2016 6:02:53 PM

Zap

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I'll have to see where I can see that episode. I don't remember seeing that particular one. That would be something, who would be the Enterprise in our world? No greater power to intervene to stop the craziness.

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RE: Next generation air dominance... - 2/9/2016 10:04:22 PM

Alchenar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

While that's one of the key issues to prevent, there is still the "fires on approaching aircraft wrongly and starts a war" possibility. Hell, think of the regimes that would love the cover of a "bug" when they shoot something down .

Just because you can program a drone with a 'shoot everything that fails an IFF ping' mode doesn't mean that would be the only mode you'd program it with, nor that you'd ever actually use that mode unless you were already in a high intensity conflict.

The degree to which combat drones are going to be effective is not autonomy, it's the degree to which you think your datalinks will be secure in a presumably EW heavy battlespace.

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