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Rangers & Morale - 12/22/2015 9:43:22 PM

tortugapower

Posts: 264
Joined: 12/17/2015
Status: offline

Hello forum,

I have a question that hasn't yielded results in my gameplay experimentation. Is there a benefit for Rangers over normal Rifleman, and if so, is there some way of quantifying or even some hand-waving explanation?

I know that Rangers have higher morale (starting at 100 instead of 50), but I haven't seen any difference in my combats using them versus using Rifleman. The only other numeric difference I can find is that Rangers have a 60 in their "Entrench Pow" (entrenchment/entrenching power?), while Riflemen and other infantry have a 40, but they seem to get the same entrenchment values so I'm not sure if this affects the game.

Just trying to find a way to justify their 40% increase in production cost, so I can use the flavor units :)

Best,
Tort

Post #: 1

RE: Rangers & Morale - 12/23/2015 9:50:58 AM

Ormand

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Joined: 2/17/2009
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My understanding is that morale affects retreat and panic during combat. It is sort of described on pp. 53-54 in the ATWW2 manual, but it is not that transparent. But, I belive with higher morale, the unit will more often stand and fight.

(in reply to tortugapower)

Post #: 2

RE: Rangers & Morale - 12/24/2015 2:28:00 AM

ernieschwitz

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline

I thought Rangers started out with 40 XP, and others started at 0 XP, and that was one of the reasons for their cost.

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Post #: 3

RE: Rangers & Morale - 12/24/2015 8:18:01 AM

Vic

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Joined: 5/17/2004
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http://www.vrdesigns.nl/atwiki/doku.php?id=atg:troops

best wishes,
Vic

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Post #: 4

RE: Rangers & Morale - 12/28/2015 7:23:41 PM

tortugapower

Posts: 264
Joined: 12/17/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic
<snip>

Hi Vic,

Thanks for the response, but this is just the same as the in-game description, and that's part of the problem -- the in-game description is nebulous.

If you have a moment, perhaps you can answer: is the only difference in Rangers and Riflemen just the 2x bonus to their starting morale? Does this entrenching power do anything?

ernieschwitz: perhaps you are remembering Mercenaries that start with higher XP.

I'm just trying to figure out what would cause them to cost 40% more, we're saying that 2 rangers are nearly equal to 3 riflemen, and that's a strong statement.

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Post #: 5

RE: Rangers & Morale - 12/29/2015 8:11:58 AM

Ormand

Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline

I can confirm that in a NewDawn3 rangers get 20 extra experience points. You can see this via the editor, check the items tab, and for each item it is possible for a unit to be created with extra experience and morale. For Rangers, it is 20 extra experience, and 100 morale.

(in reply to tortugapower)

Post #: 6

RE: Rangers & Morale - 12/30/2015 5:38:55 AM

ernieschwitz

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Thank you. I thought so, that they got some XP bonus. Good to know this old guys memory still works :)

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Post #: 7

RE: Rangers & Morale - 1/2/2016 5:45:23 PM

tortugapower

Posts: 264
Joined: 12/17/2015
Status: offline

I'm no good with the editor, but I just created a bunch of rangers and rifleman into an empty HQ, and the Rangers came out with 25 XP, while the Riflemen came out with 10 XP. You're right, ernie.

It's funny, because by the time my units see combat, this difference is pretty small. This made me wonder if there is a simulated "green" period for your units, and sure enough! After one turn, both units have increased in morale to Rangers 30 XP, Rifles 20 XP. On the third turn, those numbers are 32XP and 25XP; fourth, 34XP and 30XP. This must be why I didn't notice the XP difference to start.

Anyway, thanks for contributing Ormand and ernie. Still lots I don't know, but a lot less than when I started this thread

(in reply to ernieschwitz)

Post #: 8

RE: Rangers & Morale - 4/26/2016 11:49:12 PM

FieldOfGlory

Posts: 267
Joined: 1/13/2012
From: Utah USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tortugapower

Hello forum,

I have a question that hasn't yielded results in my gameplay experimentation. Is there a benefit for Rangers over normal Rifleman, and if so, is there some way of quantifying or even some hand-waving explanation?

I know that Rangers have higher morale (starting at 100 instead of 50), but I haven't seen any difference in my combats using them versus using Rifleman. The only other numeric difference I can find is that Rangers have a 60 in their "Entrench Pow" (entrenchment/entrenching power?), while Riflemen and other infantry have a 40, but they seem to get the same entrenchment values so I'm not sure if this affects the game.

Just trying to find a way to justify their 40% increase in production cost, so I can use the flavor units :)

Best,
Tort

As far as I know the "entrenchment power" value determines how fast a sub-formation will increase its entrenchment value each turn until it hits its maximum entrenchment level. So a Ranger will reach maximum entrenchment faster than a Rifle.

(in reply to tortugapower)

Post #: 9

RE: Rangers & Morale - 6/18/2016 9:07:28 PM

davebob

Posts: 63
Joined: 9/9/2014
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Note that...with the editor, you can make those rangers what you will. Change movement and combat in mountains for Mtn Rangers, snow,jungle, city, whatever is fun.

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Post #: 10

RE: Rangers & Morale - 8/4/2016 3:08:47 PM

navekaoy

Posts: 28
Joined: 7/24/2016
Status: offline

I think Rangers are primarily useful when you need a combat-ready unit right away. Rifles come out with 10 experience, which usually makes them targets for more experienced units if they get sent into battle a turn or two after being built, so 25 experience to start is quite an upgrade. I couldn't tell you how much more effective that upgrade is, but anecdotal experience tells me quite a bit. Morale is a bit more nebulous to me in how it actually works in-game, so it's hard to do a proper cost-benefit analysis, but I would certainly consider building rangers if you need infantry that's going straight into battle.

(in reply to davebob)

Post #: 11

RE: Rangers & Morale - 9/28/2016 10:38:30 PM

warnevada

Posts: 1260
Joined: 2/5/2015
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Morale is used during combat to determine whether a unit panics. The higher the morale the less likely panic will occur. Panic is very bad because if the enemy fires at a panicking element the hit probability is doubled.

So although Rangers start with 100 morale it will go down each time an element is retreated and go down more if the unit retreats. They will gain morale each time they kill or retreat an enemy element and gradually over time with the help of an HQ. The important thing about the gradual morale gain is that it only takes place until the unit regains its base morale. Ranger base morale is 100, normal units base morale is 50.

(in reply to navekaoy)

Post #: 12