Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/2/2018 12:28:35 PM   
specie1

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline 		Why do these HQs have a little n next to them.

As I understand it, they are command headquarters not fleet headquarters.

Is this a mistake?
Post #: 1
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/2/2018 12:51:16 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: specie1

Why do these HQs have a little n next to them.

As I understand it, they are command headquarters not fleet headquarters.

Is this a mistake?

They are called fleet HQs in your title. If they are both Command and Fleet HQs (like the Pacific Ocean Areas Command for the Allies) they still get the bonuses of a Naval HQ - the n is there to tell you that.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 3/2/2018 12:53:24 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to specie1)
Post #: 2
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/2/2018 12:52:51 PM   
specie1

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline 		sorry, it's in the title of the post

on the japanese side. 4th fleet and Southeast Fleet HQs

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 3
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/3/2018 10:49:54 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: specie1

Why do these HQs have a little n next to them.

As I understand it, they are command headquarters not fleet headquarters.

Is this a mistake?


They have the lower case "n" appended because they are both a Naval HQ. They are not Command HQs.

An HQ unit can not be a combination of 2 or more different types of HQs.

Alfred

(in reply to specie1)
Post #: 4
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/3/2018 11:30:59 AM   
specie1

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline 		But if you click on them in the upper left hand corner they both say command headquarters

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 5
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/3/2018 11:48:33 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		They are not Command HQs in the official scenarios.

Please post a screenshot and advise scenario you are playing.

Alfred

(in reply to specie1)
Post #: 6
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/3/2018 4:21:44 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
They are not Command HQs in the official scenarios.
Please post a screenshot and advise scenario you are playing.

Alfred

They actually are. There are 9 HQn Japan units in Stock 1 Scenario: 7 of them are NavalHQ, and 2 (4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet) are CommandHQ in the LCU tab

Anyone can check it in their game by starting Stock 1 scenario as Japan. Takes like 3 min

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 3/3/2018 4:22:48 PM >

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 7
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/3/2018 4:33:11 PM   
Zecke


Posts: 1330
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline 		4 fleet HQ are for command infantry units.

_____________________________

Epsilon Eridani



(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 8
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/3/2018 10:35:57 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
They are not Command HQs in the official scenarios.
Please post a screenshot and advise scenario you are playing.

Alfred

They actually are. There are 9 HQn Japan units in Stock 1 Scenario: 7 of them are NavalHQ, and 2 (4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet) are CommandHQ in the LCU tab

Anyone can check it in their game by starting Stock 1 scenario as Japan. Takes like 3 min


Yawn ...

I don't care what you or others think, the code trumps your beliefs.

I looked them up in the editor before posting. 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet are HQ types 21 and 25 respectively in scenario 1. That makes them Naval HQs. As opposed to the Japanese HQs which are HQ type 109 and therefore Command HQs.

When michaelm introduced the graphic improvement of appending the lower case identifiers to HQs he did not create a new HQ type. The identifiers merely state in visual format what the code says is the HQ type. Therefore an appended "n" automatically identifies it as a Naval HQ, just as a "c" identifies it as a Corps HQ, an "a" as an Air HQ et al. All directly from the code.

The code allows for a single type of HQ to be attributed to a single HQ unit. Multiple HQ types attributed to a unit are not possible.

Alfred

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 9
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/4/2018 5:54:28 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
They are not Command HQs in the official scenarios.
Please post a screenshot and advise scenario you are playing.

Alfred

They actually are. There are 9 HQn Japan units in Stock 1 Scenario: 7 of them are NavalHQ, and 2 (4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet) are CommandHQ in the LCU tab

Anyone can check it in their game by starting Stock 1 scenario as Japan. Takes like 3 min


Yawn ...

I don't care what you or others think, the code trumps your beliefs.

I looked them up in the editor before posting. 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet are HQ types 21 and 25 respectively in scenario 1. That makes them Naval HQs. As opposed to the Japanese HQs which are HQ type 109 and therefore Command HQs.

When michaelm introduced the graphic improvement of appending the lower case identifiers to HQs he did not create a new HQ type. The identifiers merely state in visual format what the code says is the HQ type. Therefore an appended "n" automatically identifies it as a Naval HQ, just as a "c" identifies it as a Corps HQ, an "a" as an Air HQ et al. All directly from the code.

The code allows for a single type of HQ to be attributed to a single HQ unit. Multiple HQ types attributed to a unit are not possible.

Alfred

Interesting. It seems the confusion is because LCUs can be assigned to these HQs as though they are Command HQs?

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 10
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/4/2018 6:53:14 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		LCUs can be attached to ANY HQs.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 11
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/4/2018 9:20:39 AM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
They are not Command HQs in the official scenarios.
Please post a screenshot and advise scenario you are playing.

Alfred

They actually are. There are 9 HQn Japan units in Stock 1 Scenario: 7 of them are NavalHQ, and 2 (4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet) are CommandHQ in the LCU tab

Anyone can check it in their game by starting Stock 1 scenario as Japan. Takes like 3 min


Yawn ...

I don't care what you or others think, the code trumps your beliefs.

I looked them up in the editor before posting. 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet are HQ types 21 and 25 respectively in scenario 1. That makes them Naval HQs. As opposed to the Japanese HQs which are HQ type 109 and therefore Command HQs.

When michaelm introduced the graphic improvement of appending the lower case identifiers to HQs he did not create a new HQ type. The identifiers merely state in visual format what the code says is the HQ type. Therefore an appended "n" automatically identifies it as a Naval HQ, just as a "c" identifies it as a Corps HQ, an "a" as an Air HQ et al. All directly from the code.

The code allows for a single type of HQ to be attributed to a single HQ unit. Multiple HQ types attributed to a unit are not possible.

Alfred



You can not care as well, but it's a fact that 4th, Southeast AND 5th fleet are considered as theatre commands in Scen one, and multiple land locations and land units are related to their command, and if any of the units under their command conquers a new location, that shall befall under their jurisdiction respectively, etc...even though all of them are fleet commands , as well and at the same time...this is also a fact, very clear one...
What the implications of this, I don't know...your insight seems pointing out that in spite of them being theatre commands, they shall not bestow command benefits to the units under their command radius...indeed?


< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 3/4/2018 9:25:27 AM >

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 12
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/4/2018 9:24:13 AM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline 		-

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 3/4/2018 9:25:44 AM >

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 13
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/4/2018 5:28:53 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner
... 4th, Southeast AND 5th fleet are considered as theatre commands in Scen one, and multiple land locations and land units are related to their command, and if any of the units under their command conquers a new location, that shall befall under their jurisdiction respectively, etc...even though all of them are fleet commands , as well and at the same time...this is also a fact, very clear one...
What the implications of this, I don't know...your insight seems pointing out that in spite of them being theatre commands, they shall not bestow command benefits to the units under their command radius...indeed?

Alfred is quite correct, but there are some other things going on. The confusion arises from 4th Fleet, 5th Fleet, and Southeast Area Fleet being attached to themselves; i.e., they do not report to a ‘higher’ HQ. They are, therefore, at the top of their respective OOB reporting trees (kinda ‘theater’ level). Being such a ‘top-level’ HQ has certain implications for attachment (think PPs, base capture ownership, etc..) but does not imply anything else. They “look” like command HQs when one looks at the attachment menu screen, because they are in the left-most position, like other command HQs. But this does not signify command status.

As Alfred says, the “only” way an HQ is identified as a “Command” HQ, for purposes of code adders, is if it has a “10” in the HQ-Type field. 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet are both “2”, so they are not Command, but Naval HQs even though they are ‘top-level’.

Matt

< Message edited by US87891 -- 3/4/2018 5:30:12 PM >

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 14
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/5/2018 12:07:16 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner
... 4th, Southeast AND 5th fleet are considered as theatre commands in Scen one, and multiple land locations and land units are related to their command, and if any of the units under their command conquers a new location, that shall befall under their jurisdiction respectively, etc...even though all of them are fleet commands , as well and at the same time...this is also a fact, very clear one...
What the implications of this, I don't know...your insight seems pointing out that in spite of them being theatre commands, they shall not bestow command benefits to the units under their command radius...indeed?

Alfred is quite correct, but there are some other things going on. The confusion arises from 4th Fleet, 5th Fleet, and Southeast Area Fleet being attached to themselves; i.e., they do not report to a ‘higher’ HQ. They are, therefore, at the top of their respective OOB reporting trees (kinda ‘theater’ level). Being such a ‘top-level’ HQ has certain implications for attachment (think PPs, base capture ownership, etc..) but does not imply anything else. They “look” like command HQs when one looks at the attachment menu screen, because they are in the left-most position, like other command HQs. But this does not signify command status.

As Alfred says, the “only” way an HQ is identified as a “Command” HQ, for purposes of code adders, is if it has a “10” in the HQ-Type field. 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet are both “2”, so they are not Command, but Naval HQs even though they are ‘top-level’.

Matt

The attachment as though they were command HQs is what I was getting at - I am well aware you can attach LCUs to any HQ. So the lack of command designation in the code must mean you do not get the benefits of a command HQ, as adarbrauner was guessing.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 15
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/5/2018 12:45:15 AM   
specie1

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline 		i have screen shots of the hqs i did with paint

How do i post them here

They clearly describe both 4th and SE as Command Headquarters

and Fleet 1, 2, and 3 as Naval Headquarters.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 16
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/5/2018 1:36:13 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

You can not care as well, but it's a fact that 4th, Southeast AND 5th fleet are considered as theatre commands in Scen one, and multiple land locations and land units are related to their command, and if any of the units under their command conquers a new location, that shall befall under their jurisdiction respectively, etc...even though all of them are fleet commands , as well and at the same time...this is also a fact, very clear one...
What the implications of this, I don't know...your insight seems pointing out that in spite of them being theatre commands, they shall not bestow command benefits to the units under their command radius...indeed?



In AE, technically there are no theatre commands.

AE recognises only 6 types of HQs:

Command
Army
Corps
Amphibious
Naval
Air


There is no Theatre Command in that list of HQ types.

You should be very careful in telling me what is a "fact" in AE, unless of course you like being made to look like a fool when you peddle nonsense. Unlike many who post on the forum, I do not present opinions on game mechanics as "facts". Instead I almost always research the issue before posting and providing accurate and correct facts, not insights. You should try doing the same someday.

Alfred

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 17
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/5/2018 1:44:23 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


... So the lack of command designation in the code must mean you do not get the benefits of a command HQ ...


I repeat, an HQ unit can be only one of the six types of HQs present in the game. It follows that only the characteristics assigned to that HQ type apply to the HQ unit. Command HQ characteristics apply only to a designated Command HQ unit, Corps HQ characteristics apply only to a designated Corps HQ unit, Air HQ characteristics apply only to a designated Air HQ unit et al.

Alfred

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 18
RE: 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question - 3/5/2018 2:01:04 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: specie1

i have screen shots of the hqs i did with paint

How do i post them here

They clearly describe both 4th and SE as Command Headquarters

and Fleet 1, 2, and 3 as Naval Headquarters.


They are not Command HQs.


  • The editor tells you they are Naval HQs and therefore for all game purposes are only Naval HQs
  • At the bottom of the Truk base screen both units display the Naval HQ type icon, not the Command HQ type icon
  • The range of the two units is not consistent with that normally associated with a Command HQ


Post #14 explains the impact of being at the top of the OOB reporting tree. What you see is at worst a graphical glitch brought about by not differentiating between Command HQs which report to themselves and non Command HQs which also report to themselves. This at worst "graphical glitch" has no impact on the algorithms. Nor should it have any impact on any human player who pays careful attention to all the relevant game information.

Alfred

(in reply to specie1)
Post #: 19
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.719