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Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/19/2018 4:49:17 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Brian ( General Patton ) and I want to restart our StBP game using the newest version of the scenario, the one with ships. Brian is going to be the Axis and I'll be the Allies again. I say again because I have a game going on right now with Ian ( devoncop ) and I'm the Allies in that too. Which is fine. What tricks I learn in one game will apply to the other most likely.

The first thing I usually do when I get a turn is to check out the aircraft and make sure thay are in the best positions and have the right mission for the needs of the war and to rest all the tired ones. Stuff like that. So I cut and pasted this list of the squadrons and I'm looking up the info on the right side of the table, the proficiency and the plane type. This is the kind of info I'll need to post the aircraft to the proper airfield because I want the best stuff out front and the next best stuff close behind and the worst stuff I'll leave parked on Malta so it doesn't get killed.

I'll be using the red green yellow rule so if it turns yellow it gets rested. Red units cannot shoot but they can move as long as they are moving to a higher supply area. Yellow units cannot shoot but they can move. Green units are free to do what units do.

This will be my first trip through this scenario version so I'm going to go back to the baskcs and apply the rules of thumb I've developed over the years.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 4/19/2018 5:27:03 PM >

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/19/2018 5:41:09 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I've decided that I need to trim the ranges of the bombers and fighters so I will
get better performance out of the planes. So instead of 189 hexes I'm aimig for
coverage of Sicily and maybe a little of the toe and that's about it. For now.
I'll change them again when the action moves to the mainland.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/19/2018 6:07:03 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the plans for conquest. I'm thinking that the British will establish a perimeter
to push out the footprint to permit maneuver room and to convert the roads and rails and
get ready to push north. The Americans are underhanded right now so they will concentrate
on getting a perimeter set up to prevent surprise attacks and when the second wave units
arrive send them on their way north to cut off the flow of troops from the west part of the
island to Messina. Also, to act as the left flank of the British push heading north, to
act in syncronisity with the British so there's no gaps if possible. The British are to
grab whatever airfield they can for the CAP folks to park on.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/19/2018 6:47:08 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I've been moving units and have found some German defenders and in the west I'm pushing
out units to clear the terrain and convert the hexes and start the search and destroy
missions. Recon to find them and the heavy guns to kill them.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/20/2018 1:35:01 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the start of turn two and I've had a game engine paradrop near some bridge
and I needed to move something up north to protect him and I moved some armor up
next to him. I don't really need that bridge I don't guess so I'll bypass that
and see if I can't make some headway going north along the rail path to Messina.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/20/2018 2:39:27 PM   
larryfulkerson


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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what it looked like as I was ending the turn. I mopped up one of the two
German stacks in southeastern Sicily. One more to go. I'm getting the different
bridgeheads connected so the supply can flow freely.

The British are up to the river already and are ignoring their left flank because
the Americans are supposed to be covering that but they aren't there yet. D'oh.
So the British have deployed a light screen and have crossed their fingers.

It looks like everybody is trying to pull back into a perimeter around Messina.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/20/2018 4:05:36 PM   
devoncop


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Status: offline 		Hi Larry

're the paradrop...are you saying the location was out of your control? If so that's a bit of a shame because you may have made better use elsewhere and also the Germans can be ready for a predefined drop ..

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/20/2018 4:06:27 PM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
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Status: offline 		Larry,

I’m looking forward to seeing how this progresses differently from your battles with Ian.

Good luck,

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/20/2018 4:07:03 PM   
MikeJ19


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Status: offline 		Ian,

Good point!

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/20/2018 4:28:07 PM   
devoncop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19

Larry,

I’m looking forward to seeing how this progresses differently from your battles with Ian.

Good luck,


The difference is that Brian knows what he is doing


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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/20/2018 6:31:53 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop
Hi Larry
're the paradrop...are you saying the location was out of your control? If so that's a bit of a shame because you may have made better use elsewhere and also the Germans can be ready for a predefined drop ..

I'll butt in
Operation Fustian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fustian

But as far the pre-determined game engine drop - giving players a free hand with paradrops often results in silly things

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/20/2018 6:42:09 PM   
devoncop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop
Hi Larry
're the paradrop...are you saying the location was out of your control? If so that's a bit of a shame because you may have made better use elsewhere and also the Germans can be ready for a predefined drop ..

I'll butt in
Operation Fustian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fustian

But as far the pre-determined game engine drop - giving players a free hand with paradrops often results in silly things


Ah...okay then historically it's accurate (unsurprisingly) but it still allows a German player to move forces on turn one to surround the drop zone. Still, it's a very long scenario and so one encounter certainly won't swing it


Thanks for the explanation.

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/20/2018 8:40:57 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what it looks like at the end of turn three. I'm almost up to the MLR next
to Mt Etna on the east and probably on the west side as well. I think Brian has
withdrawn most of his defenders toward Messina.

EDIT: Yeah, the paradrop location was pre-determined. Luckily I was able to save
it in time. He was about to get killed.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/21/2018 12:41:18 AM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Larry,

It looks like your air force is leading your advance. What would happen if the Germans attack the airfields with their ground forces? Looks dangerous to me.

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/21/2018 1:59:15 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
Larry,
It looks like your air force is leading your advance. What would happen if the Germans attack the airfields with their ground forces? Looks dangerous to me.

I'm trying to think of an excuse to justify my parking those aircraft there and I'm coming up empty.
My thinking at the time was that it was important to get the bombers on the island and trim their
range so that they just cover the island and I ran out of airfields to park planes on and I had
some unit, some ground units on some of the airfields so I started parking planes on them and I
thought that if the Germans overrun the hex the planes will just fly away. But now that I think
about it they are vulnerable to arty raids, etc. and putting those planes there is extraorginarily
risky. German units would have to leave their emplacement to attack me and that would eliminate
their investment in being dug in and I'm thinking that might be something he might not want to do.
For them to give up their emplacement and attack me would bring them out in the "open" and give me
opportunity to kill them. Maybe he knows that.

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/21/2018 2:17:39 AM   
MikeJ19


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Status: offline 		Or he might not see your planes on the airfields... although unless you have cloaking devices it would be fairly obvious to see the planes arriving...



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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/23/2018 2:39:51 PM   
hingram


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From: SW Virginia
Status: offline 		I think the planes move if you trying to attack them but maybe you can artillerize them?

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/23/2018 2:47:57 PM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hingram
I think the planes move if you trying to attack them but maybe you can artillerize them?

Artillerize? You do have a way with words, hingram dude. But yes, that's a risk that
my planes are in. The Germans can do an arty raid, move in, bombard, retreat to safety.
The Marines do it all the time. I thought maybe they wouldn't do that though because
that would disrupt their emplacement, all the digging in they have invested so far. I'm
hoping Brian will ignore them altogether.

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/25/2018 1:25:28 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what it looks like in turn four. I heard railroad noises during the playback
and I think it's Italians moving along the coastal road to the east, toward Messina.
I'm thinking that Brian is going to make his MLR around Mt Etna north and south.

He's flown his aircraft to the mainland and he doesn't have any sea movement cap or
he would have been evacuating Germans I'm pretty sure.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/25/2018 1:39:55 AM   
larryfulkerson


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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what it looks like just before I ended the turn. The British are pressing
north and the Americans are pressing north and west and the perimeter is expanding.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/26/2018 9:05:58 PM   
larryfulkerson


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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		This is what it looks like at the end of turn six. The Italians are moving from
the west side of the island toward Messina along the north coast road and I need
to intercept them, prevent them from getting there. I've reached the north coast
road with a recon unit and the Italians will probably attack it.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/27/2018 1:33:37 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		Here's the front lines before I have moved anybody. It appears that Brian is moving
people off the island as fast as he can.

EDIT: It turns out that the Allied CA is actually an Allied CL.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 4/27/2018 4:42:51 PM >

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/27/2018 3:58:00 PM   
devoncop


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Status: offline 		You are making phenomenal progress here Larry.

Great job.

At the end of August in our game (a month later) we were still fighting around Mt Etna and the evacuations to the mainland had just started.

What would you say you have done differently here that has made the difference?

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/27/2018 4:41:44 PM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop
You are making phenomenal progress here Larry.

Great job.

At the end of August in our game (a month later) we were still fighting around Mt Etna and the evacuations to the mainland had just started.

What would you say you have done differently here that has made the difference?

Brian tells me it's like I knew what he was going to do from the start. Everything that he's trying to do is building some MLR's around Mt. Etna and move the Italians from the west to Messina and I thought that if I were Axis that's what I would do so I did my planning on that as his goal and it has all seemed to work out just fine so far. It's still too early to say with certainty when the island will be cleared but I've already gotten started on that. The goal is to grab Messina to stop the evacuations and trap as much stuff on the island as possible and persuade it to surrender.

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/27/2018 4:45:53 PM   
MikeJ19


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Status: offline 		Larry,

Good plan and good luck


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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/27/2018 9:35:47 PM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
Larry,

Good plan and good luck

I agree there was a lot of luck involved in the event but the plan isn't mine. It's
from Montgomery in that movie about the war in Sicily, I think it was called "Patton"
from a long time ago. He was in the wash room of the Corps HQ and he and another
General were discussing Operation Husky and what the plan should be and Montgomery
breathed on the mirror over the sink to make it fog up and drew a rough island shaped
like Sicily and then drew one line north along the east coast: "This will be the British
forces making their way north along the coast road to Messina." And he drew another
line to the left of the first going north, slightly to the NW. "And this is the American
forces and they will protect the west flank of the British and clear out the western part
of the island." And then he wipped the mirror to destroy the drawing in the fog on the
mirror as it was considered top secret.

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/28/2018 2:01:19 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what it looks like in T10 and I'm pushing for the corner of the island and
the port of Messina. The Italians have been slowly backing up for three turns now
and I think maybe they are close to cracking. One more good push and they might
fold and crumble. I want to stop the evacuations and build a big big POW camp and
make Mexico pay for it.

I've got a couple of yellow planes but most of them are green and they have been
carrying the brunt of the load. Sometimes I attack with one-dot settings and the
attack still works. Of course some of that is due to the poor proficiency of the
Italians. I notice that the Italians have been doing most of the defending so far.
I'm pretty sure Brian has evacuated most of the German stuff to the mainland. There's
been a trip over to the mainland for the past four turns or so. That's possibly 36
units or so.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/28/2018 6:46:10 AM   
devoncop


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Status: offline 		I think as the Axis it can be tempting to evacuate all remaining German forces in particular from Sicily as soon as possible but I think it's a mistake. Every turn spent holding up the Allies on Sicily, even at the cost of casualties is a turn gained at the end of the game defending Brenner Pass.....and as we are seeing in our game every turn can be crucial.

Having said that, the decent Italian and German artillery is definitely worth saving once it comes under too much pressure as is much of the 15th Panzer Grenadiers as possible, but not using their ability on Sicily (while Allied air is relatively much weaker than later) is debatable.

< Message edited by devoncop -- 4/28/2018 6:49:09 AM >

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/29/2018 2:22:41 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		All of my units are either not adjacent to an enemy unit or it's yellow and can't
shoot. So not much got done this turn. I did bombard his stacks of troops and
got a handful of hits. I'm hoping to have the island cleared in a couple of turns.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 4/29/2018 8:35:29 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what it looks like just before I pull the trigger for combat resolution. The
goal is to capture the port and kill all the enemy units on the island. Maybe I'll
be able to do all that this turn.




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