Very strange proposed combat result

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Very strange proposed combat result - 9/4/2019 10:47:13 AM

frankschilde

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/30/2008
Status: offline

Normally proposed combat results seem ok. But now I encounter twice an problem with a sub attack versus a visible DD. Both units have a good combat multiplier ( > 80%). The proposed combat information is NA= 9-3 = 6 and SUD= 7-3= 4. However the proposed result is 6 own losses versus 2 DD losses and when executing the combat it was also the net result. How with a favorable 6 versus 4 coming in a naval battle to 6 � 2 negative result.
I also do not understand the -3. Normally it�s � att mult* experience/ 3 and with exp on both sides = 1 it should be around -0.3.
I do not know how to include the print screen.
Can you help me? Thanks, Frank

Post #: 1

RE: Very strange proposed combat result - 9/5/2019 1:19:15 PM

Hubert Cater

Posts: 5199
Joined: 7/22/2013
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Hi Frankschilde,

If a Sub moves before it attacks, then its actual attack value is halved from what you see in the formula, so it would be half of 6.

This is a special case for Subs only as they did not actively hunt and pursue other naval units in the same way that capital ships did. Essentially subs are at their most optimal from a surprise attack or when stationary and attacking.

The -3 simply means that there are 3 common tech levels that cancel each other out between the attacker and defender, thus, the 9-3 on your side, and the 7-3 on the defender side.

Hopefully this makes sense and answers your question?
Hubert

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Post #: 2

RE: Very strange proposed combat result - 9/5/2019 2:25:13 PM

frankschilde

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/30/2008
Status: offline

Hallo Hubert,
thanks a lot for the reaction.
I understand the -3.
I didn't really read in the manual that moving subs attacking have their attack value halved. But thanks for the info. ( The manual has many pages and no indew to really verify)
But thus it mean that by halving the 6 coming to 3 versus 4 can provoke an expected result of 6 versus 2?
Unfortunately, I do not know how to include a png-file on this reply. Otherwise I could show you the print screen.

I will try to send it via e-mail.

Thanks, Frank

(in reply to Hubert Cater)

Post #: 3

RE: Very strange proposed combat result - 9/5/2019 5:53:36 PM

Hubert Cater

Posts: 5199
Joined: 7/22/2013
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There is a +/- 1 random number generator that is added to the combat results and sometimes depending on how it is rounded can have an effect, but without seeing the turn first hand I can't say for sure what might have happened there.

If you have a saved turn handy where I can repeat this let me know and if so please send it to support@furysoftware.com

Saved turns against the AI can be found in your USER folder for the game:

C:\Users\<username>\Documents\My Games\Strategic Command WWII - World at War\Save

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Post #: 4

RE: Very strange proposed combat result - 9/5/2019 7:52:47 PM

frankschilde

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/30/2008
Status: offline

Hallo Hubert,I did not save the actual turn.However, I saved another turn where the same odd results are shown. ( 4 june 1945)When I attack with the German sub Strength = 7 , upgrade 4 ,exp 1, R = 56% positioned near Amsterdam the� Canadian DD with strength 8, upgrade 0, exp 0,� R= 66 near Groningen, I have the correct basic result 9 - 4 but again loose the battle with 4 -2.When I attack with the German sub Strength = 7 , upgrade 4 ,exp 1, R = 56% positionednear Amsterdam the UK DD with strength 10, upgrade 3, exp 0,� R= 91 near Meadstone, I have the correct basic result 9-3 = 6 versus 7-3= 4 but again loose the battle with 7 -1.When I attack with the German sub Strength = 7 , upgrade 4 ,exp 1, R = 56% positioned near Amsterdam the UK CL with strength 8, upgrade 2, exp 1,� R= 53�above Bremen, I have the correct basic result 9-2 = 7 versus 7-3=4 and gain with 0-2.

You get similar results when attacking with the sub with strength = 8. Therefore the sub even with upgrade 4 are worthless.
On the Japanese side I have near Yokohama the sub I-18, strength 8, R = 79% next to CVL Bogue: with 7-1= 6 against 4-1= 3 and with expected result 2 to 5 which seems ok.When I move the sub I-18 , R= 79%next to CVL Belleau Wood, R= 68%: 7-2= 5 against 6-2 = 4 but again with a desastrious result 6- 2
You explanation about the movement towards the target certainly shows in the good direction but there is certainly no line in the results.Against the CL although moved: rather ok. Against Bogue non moved: OK but for example against Bellau Wood with a lower Readiness????? and the tremendeous result against the UK DD
Can you investigate.Can you also inform me where I can read that the sub attack when moved is halved.
Thanks a lot,Frank

I sent the 2 files of June 4 1945 back through subscription notification because I still do not know how to link them to this message.

(in reply to Hubert Cater)

Post #: 5

RE: Very strange proposed combat result - 9/6/2019 1:43:59 PM

Hubert Cater

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Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline

Hi Franschilde,

I had to take a closer look and I believe I was confused by your original description which then led to some erroneous explanations on my part.

Essentially, I believe you've misunderstood the expected losses as displayed by the combat predictions.

For example, in your very first example at the top of the thread, you reported a combat prediction of 6:4. This is not indicating a favourable result for you, but actually the opposite, as you are expected to lose 6 strength points from the attack, and the defender 4 strength points.

As mentioned, the likely reason you are expected to lose 6 strength points is because of the fact that your sub moved first and then attacked. The combat prediction formula takes this into account and shows the unfavourable outcome as properly indicated by the 6:4.

Upon closer inspection on my end, the impact of moving your sub first before attacking is that the defender will have their losses reduced by 50%, while your attacking sub will actually have its losses doubled. This is also not mentioned in the Manual, and we will look to properly add this in. But as mentioned above, at least for now the combat prediction is correct and correctly shows what to expect as you will definitely see a difference when the sub does not move and attack, and for when it moves first and then attacks and so on.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

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Post #: 6

RE: Very strange proposed combat result - 9/6/2019 3:07:57 PM

frankschilde

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/30/2008
Status: offline

Hallo Hubert,
thanks for the reply.
I did not misunderstood the heavy U-Boat losses. This was what I did not understand.
However, if it is so that a sub, attacking after movement, even against a known enemy ( no surprise attack), suffers 2* the losses and only provokes 1/2 of the losses, this can explain a lot of the very unfavorable outcomes for the U-boats.
I also understand the explanation that a sub is a more surprise weapon and raider weapon than an ordinary attacking vessel which has to penalise a 'standard attack after movement'.
However, I did not find these penalty / bonus for the defender in the rule book, not under 6.5.7 sub movement, nor underc6.6.6 Naval Combat.

Many thanks for the reply.
If you can help me how to add a file in this message, I can give more information in the future.

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Post #: 7

RE: Very strange proposed combat result - 9/7/2019 11:53:31 AM

Hubert Cater

Posts: 5199
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline

Apologies if I also misunderstood your initial concerns, but glad it is sorted out. We will add this to the Manual as needed as well.

Unfortunately you cannot add saved game files to this forum, but as mentioned above they can be sent directly to us at our support email if you come up with similar concerns in the future. Screenshots can be sent to us as well.

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Post #: 8

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