How the evade battle works?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

How the evade battle works?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> How the evade battle works?

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

How the evade battle works? - 11/25/2019 7:35:16 PM

Irenicus945

Posts: 2
Joined: 9/12/2019
Status: offline

Hi, guys,

A couple of times, my TFs (mainly including CA, CL & DDs) just ignored and evaded battle when they encountered a group of enemy TPs, or even a sole CV.

I am sure there is still ammo for my TFs. I've tried to change the TF commanders to a more aggressive one, or set the threat tolerance to absolute, but still not work. So anyone knows how to prevent TFs from evading the battle?

Thanks a lot!

Post #: 1

RE: How the evade battle works? - 11/25/2019 7:46:13 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

Not enough info, need a screen shot of said TF.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Irenicus945)

Post #: 2

RE: How the evade battle works? - 11/25/2019 7:50:48 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

What is a TP?

Have you actually encountered an unescorted CV by itself in a TF?

What do you mean by 'evade'?

Did you get an encounter between TFs that led to a combat animation and receive a message that your own TF 'evaded' and the combat animation ended without any combat occurring?

What was the TF type and mission ordered for the TF with combat ships?

Were they in a Surface Combat TF?

Did they have a patrol order with a reaction range set?

Did the commander of the TF have decent Naval and Aggressiveness ratings?

Far too many unknowns to be able to give any advice.

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to Irenicus945)

Post #: 3

RE: How the evade battle works? - 11/25/2019 7:53:47 PM

Anachro

Posts: 2506
Joined: 11/23/2015
From: The Coastal Elite
Status: offline

Commanders, DL level, TF speed, state of armament, as well as luck feel like they all play a role in the chance of evasion. I've had many occasions in my game with John where I've had DD task forces run into xAKs and xAPs in the open sea, only to never get any contact and full evasion by his much slower xAK convoys. For Hans, this evasion happened during the combat animation and it's happened several times, sometimes multiple turns in a row.

< Message edited by Anachro -- 11/25/2019 7:54:49 PM >

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 4

RE: How the evade battle works? - 11/25/2019 10:34:01 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

Weather is the biggest reason why slow transports evade fast combat ships.

Slipping into a rain squall works every time.

Are the combat ships evading themselves, or being evaded by the enemy?

Big difference. Only reason I have ever seen for combat ships to do the evading is low ammunition.

Otherwise, chalk it up to bad die rolls and the vagaries of warfare.

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to Anachro)

Post #: 5

RE: How the evade battle works? - 11/26/2019 1:34:36 PM

Trugrit

Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

+1

The game really models reality very good.

This happens in real life.
Warships can let cargo ships evade by choice in real life to save ammo
or not to give up their position or just because they don�t see them or
can�t identify them.

Most surface combat in the Pacific took place at night.
40 nautical miles to a hex in this game. Big ocean.

We need more info on this for sure.
What type of search was set?
Reaction settings?
What were the conditions? Was there moonlight? How much?
How many ships were involved?
What was the task force compositions exactly?

Task force composition plays a large part in the decision to evade.

In the real world:
There are a lot of reasons why a commander decides not to fight.
On the sea you only want to accept battle when the position is favorable to you.
One good hit can ruin your whole day and cost a lot of lives.

The ocean is a wild place. Vision and hearing can be tricky.
Sound travels funny at times over the water. Wind plays tricks.
To find and chase down a ship is not as easy as it might seem.
In the dark almost impossible.

The PT 109 was cut in half by a Japanese destroyer at night before they could react.

In 1978 I was a signalman on watch aboard an LST operating with a NATO task force
in the North Sea. We were running EMCON with all task force lights out.

Stormy conditions with heavy overcast. The night was pitch black.
I was sitting on the starboard flag bag when a bolt of lighting lit up the sky
and revealed a destroyer no more than 60 yards to the right of where I sat.

It scared the crap out of me. I never heard him and I never saw him approach.

Look at this one from the game back in 2009:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2248121

This looks exactly like what happened to me on the North Sea that night.

If this was real life the Japanese probably never saw the xAKL Corrrgidor with 28% moonlight
and partial overcast. Even if they saw him they have to then identify him as an enemy or a friendly.
Cargo ships look very much alike in the pitch dark.

Then they have to decide if they are going to give their position away and waste
Ammo they may need later on a single cargo ship.

Then go back and look at the top of this thread and break it all down.
What�s with a single ship surface task force?

What are you doing Knavey?
Why would a commander (you) send a single ship task force into battle?
The Pensacola at 30,000 yards (30,000 yards is 15 nautical miles) probably
Was not able to identify and close with them. The Pensacola�s top speed is 32 knots.

Have you ever looked through a pair of binoculars at a ship 15 nautical miles away?
I have and it is not as straight forward as you imagine.

You call them cowards and then you sent them back again the next night?
Are you out of your mind? Are you George Armstrong Custer?

A single ship against 7 probably unknown Japanese ships. The Japanese who are reputed
to be the best navy at night combat during WW2 and expect the commander of the Pensacola
(a single ship) to be a hero and sacrifice his life, ship and crew?

If I�m the commander of the Pensacola I have to ask if they are bait in a trap?
The Japanese have baited traps before in this war. Maybe I only see 6 blips on my radar screen.
I�m just at max visibility and it is dark on the sea. Do I want to go in alone and find out?

I�m also thinking that it will take a lot of my ammo to fight these guys and a single lucky
hit on me could carry away my rudder and Leave me helpless with no friends close by.
I�m not a submarine for God�s sake.

Also, Sound travels far over the water. I�m all alone and if I open fire a Japanese task force
close by could come charging in and finish me.

I�m also thinking if I get out of this war alive I�m going to kick your ass.

Then you send a single destroyer up against 20 Japanese ships at night?
I guess you finally found a commander stupid enough to follow your orders.

The fact that combat happened at all was that he got in very close 2,000 yards and was
Able to identify and engage them. Maximum visibility was 3,000 yards.

It looks like he only sank one of them.

Rant over.

This is a great game. Hard to believe it is so good.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 6

RE: How the evade battle works? - 11/26/2019 3:20:49 PM

adarbrauner

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline

Rant over!!!!!!

(in reply to Trugrit)

Post #: 7

RE: How the evade battle works? - 11/26/2019 3:52:42 PM

Alpha77

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline

This is quite common.... here some examples from the same turn. I had put together bigger than usual TFs (with surface combat mission) in an effort to get rid of the US Fletcher Fleet and the US CL/DD fleet..(or some of them at least).

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shortlands at 109,131, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Chokai, Shell hits 1
DD Teruzuki, Shell hits 1
DD Susuzuki
DD Kiyonami
DD Hatsukaze
DD Natsushio
DD Yukikaze
DD Maikaze
DD Michishio
DD Samidare
DD Uranami, Shell hits 1
DD Yugiri
DD Akebono
CL Teshio
DD Kosugiri, Shell hits 1
DD Tagonami
CL Ninaru

Allied Ships
DD Abbot
DD Beale, Shell hits 1
DD DeHaven
DD Nicholas
DD Renshaw
DD Stanly, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Taylor, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 46% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 23,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 23,000 yards
Range closes to 17,000 yards...
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 11,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 11,000 yards
DD Taylor engages DD Uranami at 11,000 yards
DD Uranami engages DD Stanly at 11,000 yards
CL Teshio engages DD Taylor at 11,000 yards
DD Tagonami engages DD Taylor at 11,000 yards
DD DeHaven engages DD Tagonami at 11,000 yards
DD Akebono engages DD Stanly at 11,000 yards
DD Yugiri engages DD Abbot at 11,000 yards
DD Uranami engages DD Taylor at 11,000 yards
DD DeHaven engages DD Natsushio at 11,000 yards
DD Stanly engages DD Teruzuki at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
DD Teruzuki engages DD Taylor at 5,000 yards
DD Stanly engages DD Tagonami at 5,000 yards
DD Renshaw engages DD Yugiri at 5,000 yards
DD Tagonami engages DD Nicholas at 5,000 yards
DD DeHaven engages DD Natsushio at 5,000 yards
DD Beale engages DD Natsushio at 5,000 yards
DD Yugiri engages DD Stanly at 5,000 yards
DD Stanly engages DD Uranami at 5,000 yards
DD Michishio engages DD Renshaw at 5,000 yards
DD Kiyonami engages DD Renshaw at 5,000 yards
DD Susuzuki engages DD Nicholas at 5,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards
CL Ninaru engages DD Stanly at 4,000 yards
DD Renshaw engages DD Natsushio at 4,000 yards
DD Uranami engages DD Nicholas at 4,000 yards
DD Kosugiri engages DD Stanly at 4,000 yards
DD Beale engages DD Teruzuki at 4,000 yards
DD Taylor engages DD Yugiri at 4,000 yards
DD Stanly engages DD Maikaze at 4,000 yards
DD Abbot engages DD Natsushio at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
DD Taylor engages DD Akebono at 3,000 yards
DD Stanly engages DD Akebono at 3,000 yards
DD Uranami engages DD Renshaw at 3,000 yards
DD Nicholas engages DD Michishio at 3,000 yards
DD Kosugiri engages DD DeHaven at 3,000 yards
DD Kosugiri engages DD Beale at 3,000 yards
DD Susuzuki engages DD Abbot at 3,000 yards
DD Stanly engages DD Uranami at 3,000 yards
DD Stanly sunk by DD Samidare at 3,000 yards
DD Hatsukaze engages DD Abbot at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 6,000 yards
CA Chokai engages DD Taylor at 6,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Renshaw at 6,000 yards
CL Teshio engages DD Taylor at 6,000 yards
DD Tagonami engages DD DeHaven at 6,000 yards
DD Yugiri engages DD Beale at 6,000 yards
DD Beale engages DD Akebono at 6,000 yards
DD Maikaze engages DD Beale at 6,000 yards
DD Abbot engages DD Kiyonami at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
CA Chokai engages DD Taylor at 9,000 yards
DD Renshaw engages DD Susuzuki at 9,000 yards
CL Teshio engages DD Taylor at 9,000 yards
DD Yugiri engages DD DeHaven at 9,000 yards
DD Kosugiri engages DD Beale at 9,000 yards
DD Abbot engages DD Akebono at 9,000 yards
DD Samidare engages DD DeHaven at 9,000 yards
DD Taylor engages DD Michishio at 9,000 yards
DD Maikaze engages DD Beale at 9,000 yards
DD Renshaw engages DD Hatsukaze at 9,000 yards
DD Susuzuki engages DD Renshaw at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
CA Chokai engages DD Taylor at 12,000 yards
DD Teruzuki engages DD Renshaw at 12,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Nicholas at 12,000 yards
DD DeHaven engages DD Kosugiri at 12,000 yards
DD Renshaw engages DD Kosugiri at 12,000 yards
DD Abbot engages DD Akebono at 12,000 yards
DD Yugiri engages DD Taylor at 12,000 yards
DD DeHaven engages DD Susuzuki at 12,000 yards
Task forces break off...

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shortlands at 109,131, Range 25,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CS Nisshin
CA Takao
CL Isuzu
CL Kiso
DD Akizuki
DD Wakazuki
DD Kazegumo
DD Makinami
DD Naganami
DD Tamanami
DD Amatsukaze
DD Kawakaze
DD Suzukaze
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsushima
DD Akatsuki

Allied Ships
DMS Trevor
DMS Lamberton

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 46% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 23,000 yards...
Range closes to 21,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 21,000 yards
Range closes to 19,000 yards...
Range closes to 17,000 yards...
Range closes to 15,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 15,000 yards
Range closes to 13,000 yards...
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 11,000 yards
Allied TF attempts to evade combat
Range increases to 13,000 yards...
Range increases to 15,000 yards...
Range increases to 17,000 yards...
Range increases to 19,000 yards...
Range increases to 21,000 yards...
Range increases to 23,000 yards...
Range increases to 25,000 yards...
Range increases to 25,000 yards...
Allied Mine Sweeping TF evades combat

But they also were chased away and did not sweep any mines...

The US CL fleet however sunk the 2 Es which were detached from their xAP which was ordered to dock/unload. These 2 Es still had some mines on board, so gave a mine laying order (a shame they could not evade also)

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shortlands at 109,131, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E Yaeyama, Shell hits 33, and is sunk
E Nasami, Shell hits 9, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Montpelier
CL Denver
CL Santa Fe
DD Lansdowne
DD Barton
DD Bailey
DD Hobby
DD Carmick

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 46% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 23,000 yards...
Range closes to 17,000 yards...
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 11,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 11,000 yards
CL Santa Fe engages E Nasami at 11,000 yards
CL Montpelier engages E Yaeyama at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
CL Denver engages E Yaeyama at 6,000 yards
DD Carmick engages E Nasami at 6,000 yards
DD Lansdowne engages E Yaeyama at 6,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards
CL Denver engages E Yaeyama at 4,000 yards
DD Carmick engages E Yaeyama at 4,000 yards
DD Hobby engages E Yaeyama at 4,000 yards
DD Barton engages E Yaeyama at 4,000 yards
DD Lansdowne engages E Nasami at 4,000 yards
Hirano O. orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range closes to 2,000 yards
CL Santa Fe engages E Yaeyama at 2,000 yards
CL Santa Fe engages E Yaeyama at 2,000 yards
DD Bailey engages E Yaeyama at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
E Yaeyama sunk by CL Santa Fe at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 4,000 yards
CL Montpelier engages E Nasami at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
E Nasami sunk by CL Santa Fe at 3,000 yards
Combat ends with last Japanese ship sunk...

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shortlands at 109,131, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 2 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Chokai, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Teruzuki, Shell hits 3
DD Susuzuki
DD Kiyonami
DD Hatsukaze
DD Natsushio
DD Yukikaze
DD Maikaze
DD Michishio
DD Samidare
DD Uranami
DD Yugiri
DD Akebono, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL Teshio, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
DD Kosugiri
DD Tagonami
CL Ninaru, Shell hits 2

Allied Ships
CL Montpelier, Shell hits 2
CL Denver
CL Santa Fe, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Lansdowne
DD Barton
DD Bailey, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Hobby
DD Carmick, Shell hits 2

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 46% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 23,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 23,000 yards
Range closes to 17,000 yards...
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 11,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 11,000 yards
Merrill, A.S. "Tip" crosses the 'T'
CA Chokai engages CL Santa Fe at 11,000 yards
CL Santa Fe engages CL Ninaru at 11,000 yards
CL Santa Fe engages CL Teshio at 11,000 yards
CL Santa Fe engages DD Tagonami at 11,000 yards
DD Hatsukaze engages DD Hobby at 11,000 yards
DD Hobby engages DD Susuzuki at 11,000 yards
DD Teruzuki engages DD Hobby at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
CA Chokai engages CL Santa Fe at 6,000 yards
CA Chokai engages CL Denver at 6,000 yards
CL Montpelier engages CA Chokai at 6,000 yards
DD Hobby engages DD Tagonami at 6,000 yards
DD Hobby engages DD Kosugiri at 6,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Bailey at 6,000 yards
DD Akebono engages DD Barton at 6,000 yards
DD Barton engages DD Maikaze at 6,000 yards
DD Yukikaze engages DD Hobby at 6,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Bailey at 6,000 yards
DD Bailey engages DD Susuzuki at 6,000 yards
DD Teruzuki engages DD Barton at 6,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
CA Chokai engages CL Santa Fe at 5,000 yards
CL Santa Fe engages CL Ninaru at 5,000 yards
CL Santa Fe engages CL Teshio at 5,000 yards
DD Yukikaze engages DD Carmick at 5,000 yards
DD Susuzuki engages DD Hobby at 5,000 yards
DD Yugiri engages DD Bailey at 5,000 yards
DD Kosugiri engages DD Lansdowne at 5,000 yards
DD Yukikaze engages DD Barton at 5,000 yards
DD Barton engages DD Hatsukaze at 5,000 yards
DD Susuzuki engages DD Lansdowne at 5,000 yards
DD Barton engages DD Teruzuki at 5,000 yards
CA Chokai engages CL Santa Fe at 5,000 yards
CL Ninaru engages CL Denver at 5,000 yards
Magazine explodes on CL Teshio

CL Teshio sunk by CL Montpelier at 5,000 yards
DD Yukikaze engages DD Carmick at 5,000 yards
DD Kosugiri engages DD Barton at 5,000 yards
DD Akebono engages DD Barton at 5,000 yards
DD Barton engages DD Yukikaze at 5,000 yards
DD Uranami engages DD Lansdowne at 5,000 yards
DD Hatsukaze engages DD Hobby at 5,000 yards
DD Teruzuki engages DD Carmick at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 8,000 yards
CA Chokai engages CL Santa Fe at 8,000 yards
CL Santa Fe engages CL Ninaru at 8,000 yards
CL Montpelier engages CA Chokai at 8,000 yards
DD Kosugiri engages DD Lansdowne at 8,000 yards
DD Akebono engages DD Hobby at 8,000 yards
DD Lansdowne engages DD Yugiri at 8,000 yards
DD Uranami engages DD Barton at 8,000 yards
DD Samidare engages DD Bailey at 8,000 yards
DD Michishio engages DD Hobby at 8,000 yards
DD Yukikaze engages DD Carmick at 8,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Hobby at 8,000 yards
DD Hatsukaze engages DD Bailey at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
CA Chokai engages CL Santa Fe at 11,000 yards
CL Denver engages CL Ninaru at 11,000 yards
DD Carmick engages DD Tagonami at 11,000 yards
DD Kosugiri engages DD Carmick at 11,000 yards
DD Akebono engages DD Hobby at 11,000 yards
DD Yugiri engages DD Bailey at 11,000 yards
DD Teruzuki engages DD Barton at 11,000 yards
DD Samidare engages DD Hobby at 11,000 yards
DD Lansdowne engages DD Maikaze at 11,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Bailey at 11,000 yards
DD Kiyonami engages DD Bailey at 11,000 yards
Task forces break off...

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shortlands at 109,131, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CS Nisshin
CA Takao
CL Isuzu
CL Kiso
DD Akizuki
DD Wakazuki
DD Kazegumo
DD Makinami
DD Naganami
DD Tamanami
DD Amatsukaze
DD Kawakaze
DD Suzukaze
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsushima
DD Akatsuki

Allied Ships
PT-127
PT-174
PT-176
PT-188
PT-232, Shell hits 1

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 46% moonlight: 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
Asakura, Bunji crosses the 'T'
PT-188 engages CS Nisshin at 12,000 yards
PT-127 engages CS Nisshin at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
CA Takao engages PT-188 at 9,000 yards
PT-174 engages CS Nisshin at 9,000 yards
PT-127 engages CS Nisshin at 9,000 yards
DD Hatsushima engages PT-174 at 9,000 yards
CA Takao engages PT-188 at 9,000 yards
PT-188 engages CS Nisshin at 9,000 yards
DD Akatsuki engages PT-188 at 9,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages PT-232 at 9,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages PT-232 at 9,000 yards
DD Akizuki engages PT-232 at 9,000 yards
PT-232 engages CS Nisshin at 9,000 yards
DD Amatsukaze engages PT-232 at 9,000 yards
DD Naganami engages PT-232 at 9,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
CA Takao engages PT-176 at 8,000 yards
CA Takao engages PT-174 at 8,000 yards
PT-127 engages CS Nisshin at 8,000 yards
DD Tamanami engages PT-127 at 8,000 yards
DD Akizuki engages PT-232 at 8,000 yards
PT-188 engages CS Nisshin at 8,000 yards
DD Akatsuki engages PT-232 at 8,000 yards
DD Makinami engages PT-188 at 8,000 yards
DD Kazegumo engages PT-232 at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
PT-174 engages CS Nisshin at 10,000 yards
PT-127 engages CS Nisshin at 10,000 yards
DD Kazegumo engages PT-174 at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
PT-232 engages CS Nisshin at 12,000 yards
PT-176 engages CS Nisshin at 12,000 yards
DD Akatsuki engages PT-127 at 12,000 yards
DD Naganami engages PT-176 at 12,000 yards
PT-176 engages CS Nisshin at 12,000 yards
DD Kazegumo engages PT-188 at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards
PT-127 engages CS Nisshin at 11,000 yards
DD Tamanami engages PT-188 at 11,000 yards
DD Kazegumo engages PT-127 at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
CA Takao engages PT-188 at 10,000 yards
DD Akatsuki engages PT-176 at 10,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages PT-176 at 10,000 yards
DD Tamanami engages PT-174 at 10,000 yards
DD Wakazuki engages PT-232 at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
CA Takao engages PT-232 at 6,000 yards
PT-188 engages CS Nisshin at 6,000 yards
CA Takao engages PT-127 at 6,000 yards
DD Hatsushima engages PT-232 at 6,000 yards
DD Nenohi engages PT-176 at 6,000 yards
DD Amatsukaze engages PT-232 at 6,000 yards
DD Wakazuki engages PT-232 at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
PT-232 engages CS Nisshin at 9,000 yards
PT-188 engages CS Nisshin at 9,000 yards
DD Hatsushima engages PT-232 at 9,000 yards
DD Tamanami engages PT-188 at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
PT-232 engages CS Nisshin at 11,000 yards
PT-188 engages CS Nisshin at 11,000 yards
DD Nenohi engages PT-232 at 11,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages PT-188 at 11,000 yards
DD Tamanami engages PT-232 at 11,000 yards
Task forces break off...

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shortlands at 109,131, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Chokai, on fire
DD Teruzuki
DD Susuzuki
DD Kiyonami
DD Hatsukaze
DD Natsushio
DD Yukikaze
DD Maikaze
DD Michishio
DD Samidare
DD Uranami
DD Yugiri
DD Akebono, on fire
DD Kosugiri
DD Tagonami
CL Ninaru

Allied Ships
DD Renshaw, Shell hits 4
DD Taylor, Shell hits 6, and is sunk

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 57% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 27,000 yards...
Range closes to 25,000 yards...
Range closes to 23,000 yards...
Range closes to 21,000 yards...
Range closes to 19,000 yards...
Range closes to 17,000 yards...
Range closes to 15,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 15,000 yards
Range closes to 13,000 yards...
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 11,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 11,000 yards
Kubota K. crosses the 'T'
CA Chokai engages DD Taylor at 11,000 yards
CA Chokai engages DD Renshaw at 11,000 yards
DD Samidare engages DD Renshaw at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
CA Chokai engages DD Taylor at 10,000 yards
DD Samidare engages DD Renshaw at 10,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Taylor at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
DD Taylor sunk by CA Chokai at 8,000 yards
DD Renshaw engages DD Samidare at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
DD Renshaw engages DD Samidare at 6,000 yards
DD Renshaw engages DD Maikaze at 6,000 yards
DD Hatsukaze engages DD Renshaw at 6,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Renshaw at 5,000 yards
DD Renshaw engages DD Akebono at 5,000 yards
DD Kiyonami engages DD Renshaw at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
CA Chokai engages DD Renshaw at 7,000 yards
DD Uranami engages DD Renshaw at 7,000 yards
DD Renshaw engages DD Hatsukaze at 7,000 yards
DD Susuzuki engages DD Renshaw at 7,000 yards
DD Renshaw engages DD Samidare at 7,000 yards
DD Uranami engages DD Renshaw at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
CA Chokai engages DD Renshaw at 9,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Renshaw at 9,000 yards
DD Hatsukaze engages DD Renshaw at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 13,000 yards
DD Susuzuki engages DD Renshaw at 13,000 yards
Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shortlands at 109,131, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CS Nisshin
CA Takao
CL Isuzu
CL Kiso
DD Akizuki
DD Wakazuki
DD Kazegumo
DD Makinami
DD Naganami
DD Tamanami
DD Amatsukaze
DD Kawakaze
DD Suzukaze
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsushima
DD Akatsuki

Allied Ships
PT-63, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-234
PT-236
PT-237
PT-240
PT-241
PT-243
PT-244

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 57% moonlight: 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 12,000 yards
CA Takao engages PT-244 at 12,000 yards
DD Hatsushima engages PT-244 at 12,000 yards
CA Takao engages PT-63 at 12,000 yards
DD Tamanami engages PT-234 at 12,000 yards
DD Akizuki engages PT-234 at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
CA Takao engages PT-63 at 10,000 yards
DD Nenohi engages PT-234 at 10,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages PT-63 at 10,000 yards
DD Naganami engages PT-241 at 10,000 yards
DD Wakazuki engages PT-244 at 10,000 yards
Kelly, D.U. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range closes to 7,000 yards
PT-63 sunk by CS Nisshin at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
PT-244 engages CS Nisshin at 9,000 yards
DD Akatsuki engages PT-244 at 9,000 yards
DD Amatsukaze engages PT-241 at 9,000 yards
DD Tamanami engages PT-244 at 9,000 yards
DD Akizuki engages PT-244 at 9,000 yards
Task forces break off...

So what happened to the xAP without her escorts:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shortlands at 109,131, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAP Ussuri Maru

Allied Ships
PT-63
PT-234
PT-235
PT-236
PT-237
PT-238
PT-239
PT-240
PT-241
PT-243
PT-244

Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Japanese TF suspends unloading operations and begins to get underway
Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 46% moonlight: 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 12,000 yards
Japanese TF attempts to evade combat
Range increases to 12,000 yards...
Japanese Amphibious TF evades combat

Ussuri Maru was terrified by the encounter and ran back to 1 hex south of Rabaul. This gave me a bit of a better mood after the lackluster performance of our combat ships. Luckily no subs in her way....

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 11/26/2019 4:00:56 PM >

(in reply to adarbrauner)

Post #: 8

RE: How the evade battle works? - 11/28/2019 12:03:00 AM

Big B

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline

@ OP,
Make sure your TF commander is high in aggressiveness, commanders with mid to low aggression will not go all out to get into combat and press it home.

EDIT: This is probably the One area a lot of players don't pay enough attention to. Use Your Political Points! The Commander of a unit is the key to success... be it fighter squadrons, land units, or TF's.

Get the Best guys in Key positions!

< Message edited by Big B -- 11/28/2019 12:14:58 AM >

_____________________________

Big B's Shipyard

(in reply to Alpha77)

Post #: 9

RE: How the evade battle works? - 11/28/2019 5:48:37 AM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

There is a matrix of factors which the tactical AI takes into account in deciding whether a TF will attempt to evade. These factors have different weightings and are subject to die rolls so it is never possible to guarantee in advance what the outcome will be.

1. A CV TF will always attempt to avoid surface combat. Whether it is successful depends to a large degree on respective TF speed and TF leadership stats.

2. A TF (Air, Surface or Bombardment) deemed to be low in ammo will attempt to avoid surface combat and head back to its home port. Many players mistakenly believe they have adequate remaining ammo when in fact the TF fails the ammo check. The low in ammo check applies when a single ship in the TF has only 1/3 of its main gun ammo. This means that a destroyer which has used it's DP guns solely to put up flak against an enemy air attack, may fail the ammo test and thus the entire TF, without having engaged in any prior surface combat.

3. Overall TF remaining fuel level can be a factor leading to an evasion attempt.

4. TF leadership stats are factored into the matrix. Low aggression in particular will favour evasion, reinforced by lack of knowledge of the composition of the enemy TF.

5. FOW is an important factor in the matrix. What the player sees on the combat animation screen is not what the actual TF leader sees. A player can determine, from the ship silhouette, the type of ships in the enemy TF. The TF leader only knows the enemy ships whose name is identified. The TF leader may know the total size of the enemy TF but to him, the unidentified enemy ships may be merchantmen or battleships.

6. Non surface combat TFs will always attempt to avoid surface combat.

7. Surface combat is only possible once visual contact has been made. Radar contact is irrelevant. Poor weather conditions can result in a Surface Combat TF not getting within visual sighting range before the enemy TF has managed to slip away.

Alfred

(in reply to Big B)

Post #: 10

RE: How the evade battle works? - 11/28/2019 11:33:18 AM

Trugrit

Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Yes,

I wish that the game designers had not used the term "evades combat"
and had instead used the term "declines combat"

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 11

RE: How the evade battle works? - 11/28/2019 12:06:11 PM

tolsdorff

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline

quote:

Alfred
....
2. A TF (Air, Surface or Bombardment) deemed to be low in ammo will attempt to avoid surface combat and head back to its home port. Many players mistakenly believe they have adequate remaining ammo when in fact the TF fails the ammo check. The low in ammo check applies when a single ship in the TF has only 1/3 of its main gun ammo. This means that a destroyer which has used it's DP guns solely to put up flak against an enemy air attack, may fail the ammo test and thus the entire TF, without having engaged in any prior surface combat
....

Thank you for all the insight over the years and for this one in particulartoday. Perhaps this information can be found in the manual, but I missed it.
It explains a substantial part of surprising outcomes of surface combat engagements over the years.

(in reply to Trugrit)

Post #: 12

RE: How the evade battle works? - 11/29/2019 1:20:43 PM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

quote:

Alfred
....
2. A TF (Air, Surface or Bombardment) deemed to be low in ammo will attempt to avoid surface combat and head back to its home port. Many players mistakenly believe they have adequate remaining ammo when in fact the TF fails the ammo check. The low in ammo check applies when a single ship in the TF has only 1/3 of its main gun ammo. This means that a destroyer which has used it's DP guns solely to put up flak against an enemy air attack, may fail the ammo test and thus the entire TF, without having engaged in any prior surface combat
....

Thank you for all the insight over the years and for this one in particulartoday. Perhaps this information can be found in the manual, but I missed it.
It explains a substantial part of surprising outcomes of surface combat engagements over the years.