Chinese TOE Question

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Chinese TOE Question

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Chinese TOE Question

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Chinese TOE Question - 8/27/2020 10:01:46 AM

DesertWolf101

Posts: 1445
Joined: 11/26/2016
Status: offline

I am about to start a new Scenario 28 PBEM as the Allies and am looking at the Chinese dispositions.

I am sure I have seen this posted before but for the life of me I can't find it. Anyone know where I can find a list of the Chinese units that use American equipment for their TOE?

What type of devices do they get from the Americans that the other Chinese units don't?

Thank you.

Post #: 1

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/27/2020 10:33:15 AM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline

In stock 1 it is 6, 14, 66, 71, 97 corps and 1-3,6 new corps

They get ~twice more artillery and a sprinkle of combat engineers and AA machineguns. Devices are the same. Also they are the largest corps, with 837 infantry squads instead of the usual 729.

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 8/27/2020 10:38:19 AM >

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 2

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/27/2020 10:35:22 AM

DesertWolf101

Posts: 1445
Joined: 11/26/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

In stock 1 it is 6, 14, 66, 71, 97 corps and 1-3,6 new corps

They get ~twice more artillery and a sprinkle of combat engineers and AA machineguns. Devices are the same

Thanks mate, appreciate it.

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 3

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/27/2020 3:39:49 PM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

Difficult subject. But not insurmountable.

If you are looking to micromanage the NatChins, I suggest you go and find the very few units that a re capable of reassignment out of restricted command - to NCAC.

Firstly, find the best Chinese leaders for them - there are about 8 usable Chinese corps, and Lin Bao is your best guy, whether nationalist or CCP assigned. There are others who are generally superior, but most Chinese leaders are rated as rubbish so it is not hard to find the good ones.

Secondly, - turn all replacements of Chinese mortars, 105mm guns, MGs etc off. Leave squads on.

Thirdly - move some of those buildable units to India. Note that with some of the earlier ones, they have no heavy weapons, much. You can fly them to Ledo.

Fourthly - when it is time to build your assigned Chinese hit squad, turn off Chinese repl globally, turn stockpiling off, go and find the NCAC (and reassignment capable guys)and turn them on to upgrade/replace everything. In particular, build up and train the guys in Indja.

Fifthly, by careful preparation, by mid 1944 you ought to have a death-star stack of about 5 Chinese Corps - working under the command X/Y HQs, and under good Chinese group army leaders - with an AV of about 4500 plus, which will drive the IJ troops before them, hear the lamentation of their women, etc.

I tend to have 7th Fleet pick them up from Pusan in 1945 and deposit them on Honshu.

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 4

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/27/2020 8:05:20 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Secondly, - turn all replacements of Chinese mortars, 105mm guns, MGs etc off. Leave squads on.

Maybe turn the squads off, leave only support on. Most Chinese units do not have enough support, the HQs only help in a base. The more support the unit has, the more the disabled squads will be fixed. The disabled squads need supplies as well so it is better to wait until the unit is healed before giving them replacements. Also, maybe wait until the unit reaches 50 experience or more before giving the unit replacements because that will be one less die roll to fail. In a base, if the unit has excess support it will help a unit that needs it, the support is shared.

Leave the unit prep alone, once it reaches 100 it can help the experience go up to the national average as well as increase the morale.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 8/27/2020 8:19:17 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 5

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/28/2020 2:27:25 AM

DesertWolf101

Posts: 1445
Joined: 11/26/2016
Status: offline

Solid advice - thanks guys. I will certainly be looking to extract some of the non-restricted units for better use later in the war.

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 6

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/28/2020 5:39:17 AM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

One other thing on Chinese leaders - there are some small unit leaders (Colonels) who are much better than most of the large unit leaders. If you break down a corps into A/B/C, assign a Colonel to the A unit, and reassemble the corps, the Colonel should retain command. This is also a good way to promote Chesty Puller to division command.

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 7

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/28/2020 5:58:06 AM

DesertWolf101

Posts: 1445
Joined: 11/26/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

One other thing on Chinese leaders - there are some small unit leaders (Colonels) who are much better than most of the large unit leaders. If you break down a corps into A/B/C, assign a Colonel to the A unit, and reassemble the corps, the Colonel should retain command. This is also a good way to promote Chesty Puller to division command.

Neat - didn't know you could do that. How do you ensure the Colonel you want out of the three A/B/C unit leaders is the one to take command?

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 8

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/28/2020 7:45:26 AM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

IME (so this is anecdotal, only, I have no actual proof), the A element leader always becomes the reassembled parent unit leader. Also, the large unit leader in corps command seems to take the A element on division.

You may need to make sure the B & C element leaders do not out rank him, by which I mean they are not large unit leaders, although that may be unnecessary.

Edit - someone may have tested that, or Alfred may know the precise answer.

< Message edited by Ian R -- 8/28/2020 7:49:04 AM >

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 9

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/28/2020 10:55:13 AM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

In Tracker, there are about 45 Chinese LTC leaders who can lead Large Ground units. About 22 of them have very good stats, with 13 LTC leaders having Land skill in range of 66-60. Find those LTC leaders on the map (they start assigned to LCUs) and buy them out with PPs.

Now, when you assign an LTC leader to a Chinese corps, he will be the leader of the corps, until you divide the corps into ABC. Then, he is always relegated to the B division, while the A division, and later the recombined corps, are lead by the previous LGEN MGEN BGEN etc. Thus, an LTC can lead a corps, but you should not be dividing the corps if you want to retain the LTC as the corps leader.

Hope it helps.

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 10

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/28/2020 4:30:22 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

IME (so this is anecdotal, only, I have no actual proof), the A element leader always becomes the reassembled parent unit leader. Also, the large unit leader in corps command seems to take the A element on division.

You may need to make sure the B & C element leaders do not out rank him, by which I mean they are not large unit leaders, although that may be unnecessary.

Edit - someone may have tested that, or Alfred may know the precise answer.

As I understand it, the highest ranking leader is the first check, and if one leader outranks the other two he will become the leader when the unit recombines.
IME, if all three parts of the unit have leaders of the same rank, it isn't always the A leader that become the leader of the recombined unit. It appears the leader with the highest Inspiration is chosen. I have not looked closely at this since I had to upgrade last year from the .1124 version of the game, so it is possible it has been changed.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 11

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/28/2020 5:58:17 PM

DesertWolf101

Posts: 1445
Joined: 11/26/2016
Status: offline

Thank you guys - I will do some experimenting on this myself to better familiarize myself with the process. This certainly helps though!

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 12

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/29/2020 12:21:50 AM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

There were some bugs involving leaders arising from the need to avoid multiple commands sharing the same individual. Patch #3 (item 97) and patch #6 (item 94) saw actions to fix the bugs.

1. When a unit is divided into A/B/C sub components, the parent unit retains its slot position and pre subdivision leader. The newly created sub components occupy separate new slot positions.

2. The primary unit leader is assigned to the "A" sub component. New leaders, not already attached to a unit, are automatically assigned to the "B" and "C" sub component.

3. Recombining the three sub components reactivates the parent unit which technically already has a pre existing assigned leader. The sub component slot positions are vacated and available for future reuse by newly created sub components.

The patch #6 action should be noted. Under normal circumstances, where an appropriately ranked leader is already assigned to the parent unit pre breakdown, there should be no change to the above process. An impact when recombining might be seen if the player, post breakdown into the three sub components, then manually assigns a higher ranked leader than that of the dormant parent, to any of the sub components.

Alfred

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 13

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/29/2020 12:26:56 PM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

I can confirm that in v1126b, I have propelled Chesty Puller into command of a Marine division. Mind you, he wins on most comparisons.

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 14

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/29/2020 1:48:11 PM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

Another bug from the Beta which should never have been turned into an "official" patch.

Alfred

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 15

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/29/2020 6:42:30 PM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

Could be something specific to divisions that arrive in pieces, where the parent has no leader assigned. Checking it in the editor:

6th Marine Div appears in location 5140, no delay listed, 0 leader, i.e. random.

Its three regiments (22nd, 29th, and the reconstituted 4th) arrive in 42/44/44 with large unit leader Shepherd LC in the leading regt - 22nd - and small unit leaders, Bleasdale and Shapley in command of the second and third regiments. I replaced Shepherd with Puller.

So the division never has a large unit leader assigned before reassembly. Could be a point of difference Alfred?

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 16

RE: Chinese TOE Question - 8/30/2020 1:17:44 AM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Could be something specific to divisions that arrive in pieces, where the parent has no leader assigned. Checking it in the editor:

6th Marine Div appears in location 5140, no delay listed, 0 leader, i.e. random.

Its three regiments (22nd, 29th, and the reconstituted 4th) arrive in 42/44/44 with large unit leader Shepherd LC in the leading regt - 22nd - and small unit leaders, Bleasdale and Shapley in command of the second and third regiments. I replaced Shepherd with Puller.

So the division never has a large unit leader assigned before reassembly. Could be a point of difference Alfred?

The parent, not having a preassigned leader, the scheduled sub component leaders would produce an outcome upon combining which is consistent with what I posted in post #13. The bug is that upon combining, the code should not allow a Small Ground Unit leader to be installed as the leader of a division. Seems to me that an important "check" has been left unguarded.

Alfred

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 17