warspite1
Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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ORIGINAL: rkr1958
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ORIGINAL: rustysi
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ORIGINAL: juntoalmar
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ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
Production is a nightmare
So I guess it's not working properly yet. Which make me think, shouldn't the production be fixed before putting effort in the AIO?
I mean, it is something much simpler than the AI. To begin with, the AIO should do its production, doesn't it? So, you need to fix production AI to have a working AIO, anyway.
I feel you could fix a smaller problem, faster, and that will benefit all the players now (not only those playing against the AIO in the future).
Just an opinion.
I'm just the FNG here, but it looks to me that it does work. Looking at the video tutorials #13,14.
Its definitely a convoluted process, and you may have to tell it a few times what it is you wish it to do, but it does seem to work in the end.
Or am I wrong?
rustyi, here's my take on it. The current production/convoy system in MWiF has two learning curves. One modest and one steep. The modest one will generally get folks to the 90% optimum solution and the steep one will get you to 99%. A number, if not most, WiF players (i.e., of the cardboard and paper version) are use to getting to the 99 to 100% solution. Without climbing up the steep learning curve these players only get the 90% solution and are frustrated. Truth be told, sometimes the frustration is valid but sometimes the WiF player has been playing a rule incorrectly. There's no budge in MWiF when it comes to the rules. Or at least the rules as coded.
warspite1
If it were only the case of ‘tell it a few times what it is you wish it to do” then there wouldn’t be a problem. But there is a problem.
Just look at the last few AAR I was involved in. Oil is a problem – and if it were just my oil then fair enough, but Germany, Italy and the CW all had problems and I wasn’t playing both sides! Incorrect calculation of oil, oil going missing and the convoy system have problems.
I would echo rkr1958 (who talks a lot of sense). Yes, the game can get you 90% of the way – and sometimes even 100% depending on what is happening in game at the time. To say “it does seem to work in the end” is a slap in the face to players (although I know you didn’t mean it in that way). Many is the time I’ve got ready for a session of MWIF only to find that my opponent sends an e-mail, pulling his hair out in frustration with the convoy system (and I am talking about two experienced players here) and stating there will be no play today as they need to walk away.
MWIF is a game where 1 or 2 build points can be absolutely crucial – and 1 or 2 build points over the game? Yes, crucial. They can buy convoy or fighters, pilots etc. or more (where saved for another turn). 90% sounds not too bad, but missing those points can make a lot of difference in MWIF.
And the general state of the system means that confidence in it is shot for many. So this leads to scenarios where something can’t be done – but the automatic response to this is that it must be the program, whereas, as rkr1958 says, it can sometimes be incorrect rule interpretation. I was guilty of this in a recent AAR. My only defence is that there were so many genuine issues going on, my assumption was that my inability to do something was the program’s fault… again.
As with any game, being beaten by someone who understands and plays the game better is how it should be – being beaten because you can’t get the program to do what the rules say it can – but your opponent can - is something else. In cases where games are friendly this can be got around by having your opponent check the calculations. But this is not ideal and not how it should be. Apart from the fact it can alert them to areas of potential exploit they might otherwise have overlooked, it is also an unfair drag on their time.
So for the present I am away from MWIF, playing a game that is very good, but not up to MWIF level (nothing is) but what makes up for anything lacking in the game, is more than made up for by the fact that I just play turn after turn after turn without the dread that at the end of the turn I’ve got to tackle convoys and production. No dramas, no tantrums, no frustration.
As Steve says above, the program is so good in reflecting the myriad of rules (and there are one or two rules to code!!) in so many ways. But production in a Strategic game? Well it's kind of important and the convoy, saving oil, and production phases generally needs some serious love and attention before the AI - after all, the AI needs a functioning system the same as the human players. I hope progress is made soon.
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Nothing intuitive here, move along - 
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along - 
Or the program identifies an air unit that can fly a mission that I had not taken into consideration (defensive ground support - argh
). 
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