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Olympics - 7/24/2021 12:59:36 AM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		Go world!

I hear you can have a good rest and find happiness watching the Olympics.




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Post #: 1
RE: Olympics - 7/24/2021 3:51:19 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
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Status: offline 		Whoa! Cross-thread posting is like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters. Don't do it!

One sport that didn't make the Olympics: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2rovw3

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 2
RE: Olympics - 7/25/2021 5:12:23 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Go world!

I hear you can have a good rest and find happiness watching the Olympics.



warspite1

Strange old games with so few fans allowed to watch. But at least the organisers made what I think is the right decision and allowed the games to take place.

The highlight of the opening ceremony were the 1,824 drones that created a globe in the sky - very impressive.

https://hypebeast.com/2021/7/drone-show-tokyo-olympics-opening-ceremony





TEAM GB and Northern Ireland

From a performance perspective the games have started less than spectacularly for Team GB. Sadly Jade Jones failed in her bid for a third successive Taekwondo Gold, losing in the first round...

Medal count after 2 days = 0 Gold, 1 Silver and 1 Bronze

Silver - Bradly Sinden (Taekwondo - 68Kg)
Bronze - Chelsie Giles (Judo - 52kg)

Getting close to the Rio haul looks to be a tall order already. It's clear already there will be no huge medal hauls in the rowing for example....


Bradly Looked to have it won with seconds to go, but his young Uzbeki competitor snatched away the gold right at the end.



Superb attempt from the Coventry girl, only beaten by the ultimate gold medal winner from Japan.



Attachment (3)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 7/25/2021 5:24:40 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 3
RE: Olympics - 7/25/2021 7:47:43 PM   
Rebel Yell


Posts: 470
Joined: 6/21/2003
From: The Woodlands, TX USA
Status: offline 		Sorry, but the highlight of the opening ceremony was this


_____________________________

I used to enjoy these forums. So many people that need the green dot now.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 4
RE: Olympics - 7/25/2021 7:55:19 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebel Yell

Sorry, but the highlight of the opening ceremony was this

warspite1

It says video unavailable.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Rebel Yell)
Post #: 5
RE: Olympics - 7/25/2021 9:05:20 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline 		I agree with you, but for me I despise the anti whatever country demonstrations that the athletes feel they must indulge in to bring disgrace to the games. So many good athletes, but the few who destroy the meaning of bringing honor to those whom you are supposed to represent I absolutely detest . I choose not to watch anyone who brings disgrace to themselves, their team, and their country.

_____________________________

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Post #: 6
RE: Olympics - 7/25/2021 11:01:57 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

I agree with you, but for me I despise the anti whatever country demonstrations that the athletes feel they must indulge in to bring disgrace to the games. So many good athletes, but the few who destroy the meaning of bringing honor to those whom you are supposed to represent I absolutely detest . I choose not to watch anyone who brings disgrace to themselves, their team, and their country.


+1
If you do not want to represent your country, then don't. Just don't go - in fact, find another country since the one that you are representing is so bad.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 7
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 1:51:27 AM   
Rusty1961

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 2/4/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

I agree with you, but for me I despise the anti whatever country demonstrations that the athletes feel they must indulge in to bring disgrace to the games. So many good athletes, but the few who destroy the meaning of bringing honor to those whom you are supposed to represent I absolutely detest . I choose not to watch anyone who brings disgrace to themselves, their team, and their country.


+1
If you do not want to represent your country, then don't. Just don't go - in fact, find another country since the one that you are representing is so bad.



So you have a problem with the black guys in '68 Mexico games throwing the "Black Power" salute?

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 8
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 1:58:08 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

I agree with you, but for me I despise the anti whatever country demonstrations that the athletes feel they must indulge in to bring disgrace to the games. So many good athletes, but the few who destroy the meaning of bringing honor to those whom you are supposed to represent I absolutely detest . I choose not to watch anyone who brings disgrace to themselves, their team, and their country.


+1
If you do not want to represent your country, then don't. Just don't go - in fact, find another country since the one that you are representing is so bad.



So you have a problem with the black guys in '68 Mexico games throwing the "Black Power" salute?


Yes, I do.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 9
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 5:26:12 AM   
balto

 

Posts: 1123
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Rusty, why would you single that out. Of course that represents the subject matter of disrespecting your country and no honor.


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 10
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 11:53:44 AM   
Simulacra53


Posts: 632
Joined: 5/16/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

I agree with you, but for me I despise the anti whatever country demonstrations that the athletes feel they must indulge in to bring disgrace to the games. So many good athletes, but the few who destroy the meaning of bringing honor to those whom you are supposed to represent I absolutely detest . I choose not to watch anyone who brings disgrace to themselves, their team, and their country.


+1
If you do not want to represent your country, then don't. Just don't go - in fact, find another country since the one that you are representing is so bad.



So you have a problem with the black guys in '68 Mexico games throwing the "Black Power" salute?


Yes, I do.


In 1968 that certainly meant something other than disrespect and it certainly took courage, just like Muhammad Ali refusing the draft.

Today is more about posing than protesting, the easy fight and not the hard one. Official sanctions are arbitrary as some countries are boycotted and others can pretend to be righteous…

Political yes, not the first post though.
The Olympics are always tainted by some kind of hot or cold war, 1980-1984 etc, with some short windows of hope.
No I don’t watch the olympics, I respect the athletes but loath the politics, corruption and hypocrisy.

Will stop at that, apologies to the mods.



_____________________________

Simulacra53
Free Julian Assange

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 11
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 12:32:12 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

I agree with you, but for me I despise the anti whatever country demonstrations that the athletes feel they must indulge in to bring disgrace to the games. So many good athletes, but the few who destroy the meaning of bringing honor to those whom you are supposed to represent I absolutely detest . I choose not to watch anyone who brings disgrace to themselves, their team, and their country.


+1
If you do not want to represent your country, then don't. Just don't go - in fact, find another country since the one that you are representing is so bad.



So you have a problem with the black guys in '68 Mexico games throwing the "Black Power" salute?


Yes, I do.


In 1968 that certainly meant something other than disrespect and it certainly took courage, just like Muhammad Ali refusing the draft.

Today is more about posing than protesting, the easy fight and not the hard one. Official sanctions are arbitrary as some countries are boycotted and others can pretend to be righteous…

Political yes, not the first post though.
The Olympics are always tainted by some kind of hot or cold war, 1980-1984 etc, with some short windows of hope.
No I don’t watch the olympics, I respect the athletes but loath the politics, corruption and hypocrisy.

Will stop at that, apologies to the mods.


That was disrespectful. It goes against proper etiquette.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Simulacra53)
Post #: 12
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 1:46:52 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

I agree with you, but for me I despise the anti whatever country demonstrations that the athletes feel they must indulge in to bring disgrace to the games. So many good athletes, but the few who destroy the meaning of bringing honor to those whom you are supposed to represent I absolutely detest . I choose not to watch anyone who brings disgrace to themselves, their team, and their country.


+1
If you do not want to represent your country, then don't. Just don't go - in fact, find another country since the one that you are representing is so bad.


there's a huge problem in your framing here. Almost every country has people with different views as to what that country should be or should represent. These differences can stem from political alignment, ethnicity, linguistics, social class, gender, sexuaulity and I'm sure I can think of more.

so who gets to define, to the extent that you should 'find another', what is acceptable and what is not. In many cases those making protests may well disagree with whatever it is you define the 'your country' as, hopefully they do so in the full awareness that alternative views exist (and indeed should be able to co-exist?).

_____________________________


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 13
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 2:25:38 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

I agree with you, but for me I despise the anti whatever country demonstrations that the athletes feel they must indulge in to bring disgrace to the games. So many good athletes, but the few who destroy the meaning of bringing honor to those whom you are supposed to represent I absolutely detest . I choose not to watch anyone who brings disgrace to themselves, their team, and their country.


+1
If you do not want to represent your country, then don't. Just don't go - in fact, find another country since the one that you are representing is so bad.


there's a huge problem in your framing here. Almost every country has people with different views as to what that country should be or should represent. These differences can stem from political alignment, ethnicity, linguistics, social class, gender, sexuaulity and I'm sure I can think of more.

so who gets to define, to the extent that you should 'find another', what is acceptable and what is not. In many cases those making protests may well disagree with whatever it is you define the 'your country' as, hopefully they do so in the full awareness that alternative views exist (and indeed should be able to co-exist?).

Well. In many (most?) countries people have the right to protest. And these athletes have the right to say what they want, and protest how much they want when they are not representing their country.

So I see no issue with saying that they do not have the right to do so during the games. Then they represent the country, and should let the representatives of the country to speak for them if any such speech is needed. Because, as you say, a country has lots of people with lots of different opinions. Either they go there and represent all of their country. Or they do not. Plenty of other competitions where they only represent themselves.

Either we forbid protests during the game, or we allow all protests. Or are we going to have a jury, or judges, there who decide what protest to allow, or not. And do all countries in the game have a say in this?

Would be interesting to see this spreading to other fields. So, Ambassador, you are protesting against your own foreign policy?

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 14
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 3:00:03 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		No interest at all in watching the olympics as people telling me how bad a person I am by proxy. I already know my failures as a person but those same people fail to acknowledge their own debased mind and offense.

_____________________________

"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 15
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 3:13:33 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

No interest at all in watching the olympics as people telling me how bad a person I am by proxy. I already know my failures as a person but those same people fail to acknowledge their own debased mind and offense.


+1

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 16
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 3:15:16 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

I agree with you, but for me I despise the anti whatever country demonstrations that the athletes feel they must indulge in to bring disgrace to the games. So many good athletes, but the few who destroy the meaning of bringing honor to those whom you are supposed to represent I absolutely detest . I choose not to watch anyone who brings disgrace to themselves, their team, and their country.


+1
If you do not want to represent your country, then don't. Just don't go - in fact, find another country since the one that you are representing is so bad.


there's a huge problem in your framing here. Almost every country has people with different views as to what that country should be or should represent. These differences can stem from political alignment, ethnicity, linguistics, social class, gender, sexuaulity and I'm sure I can think of more.

so who gets to define, to the extent that you should 'find another', what is acceptable and what is not. In many cases those making protests may well disagree with whatever it is you define the 'your country' as, hopefully they do so in the full awareness that alternative views exist (and indeed should be able to co-exist?).

Well. In many (most?) countries people have the right to protest. And these athletes have the right to say what they want, and protest how much they want when they are not representing their country.

So I see no issue with saying that they do not have the right to do so during the games. Then they represent the country, and should let the representatives of the country to speak for them if any such speech is needed. Because, as you say, a country has lots of people with lots of different opinions. Either they go there and represent all of their country. Or they do not. Plenty of other competitions where they only represent themselves.

Either we forbid protests during the game, or we allow all protests. Or are we going to have a jury, or judges, there who decide what protest to allow, or not. And do all countries in the game have a say in this?

Would be interesting to see this spreading to other fields. So, Ambassador, you are protesting against your own foreign policy?


The Olympics are a non-governmental entity so the Olympic organizations are allowed to control what people do. They are allowed to set standards of conduct.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 17
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 3:42:53 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

...

The Olympics are a non-governmental entity so the Olympic organizations are allowed to control what people do. They are allowed to set standards of conduct.


yes but this is you setting standards.

lets try a simple example.

Scottish athletes who want to compete at the Olympics must do so as part of the Uk/GB. Now Scotland is split 50/50 on the question of independence and as ever there are people on both sides who don't fundamentally care as to the outcome and those who do.

So someone from a social background that is based on Unionism wins a race, great, they will probably be more than happy to celebrate with a Union Jack, it reflects the national flag of their team, it reflects their individual identity.

If someone from the nationalist end wins, they will probably look to celebrate with a Scottish flag, it isn't the flag of their team but it does reflect their identity. Note they have no choice, if they are an exceptional athlete in their field they have to compete for the UK (its not like in football or rugby).

Now is it a protest? Probably not but it is a means of celebrating something that is important to them in a way that is important to them. But you'd have them banned and told to compete for another country?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Well. In many (most?) countries people have the right to protest. And these athletes have the right to say what they want, and protest how much they want when they are not representing their country.

..,


in this example their desired country does not exist ... in the rules of the Olympics

< Message edited by loki100 -- 7/26/2021 3:45:02 PM >

_____________________________


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Post #: 18
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 3:51:28 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

...

The Olympics are a non-governmental entity so the Olympic organizations are allowed to control what people do. They are allowed to set standards of conduct.


yes but this is you setting standards.

lets try a simple example.

Scottish athletes who want to compete at the Olympics must do so as part of the Uk/GB. Now Scotland is split 50/50 on the question of independence and as ever there are people on both sides who don't fundamentally care as to the outcome and those who do.

So someone from a social background that is based on Unionism wins a race, great, they will probably be more than happy to celebrate with a Union Jack, it reflects the national flag of their team, it reflects their individual identity.

If someone from the nationalist end wins, they will probably look to celebrate with a Scottish flag, it isn't the flag of their team but it does reflect their identity. Note they have no choice, if they are an exceptional athlete in their field they have to compete for the UK (its not like in football or rugby).

Now is it a protest? Probably not but it is a means of celebrating something that is important to them in a way that is important to them. But you'd have them banned and told to compete for another country?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Well. In many (most?) countries people have the right to protest. And these athletes have the right to say what they want, and protest how much they want when they are not representing their country.

..,


in this example their desired country does not exist ... in the rules of the Olympics

But they do live in a country where they are allowed to protest. That they go as representatives for a country they do not believe in is perhaps unfortunate. But they still go as representatives for that country. Therefore they should behave as such representatives. They can, of course, make a real protest and abstain from going to represent said country, but that is an entirely different story.

_____________________________

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Post #: 19
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 3:58:22 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The Olympics are a non-governmental entity so the Olympic organizations are allowed to control what people do. They are allowed to set standards of conduct.

Well. Yes. Sort of. However, they do not exist in a vacuum. Their standards must align with a majority of their members.

That was however not the point I was trying to make. If they allow some sort of activism, then they open the door for all types of activism. Are they then going to punish some of the activities, and not others. That could lead to some sort of chaos. And pundits declaring that that a protest meant something that was not intended. And so on.

Better to not allow any kind of protests. And instead focus on the entertainment it is supposed to be. Plenty of times for the activists to protest outside the games.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 20
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 4:59:23 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The Olympics are a non-governmental entity so the Olympic organizations are allowed to control what people do. They are allowed to set standards of conduct.

Well. Yes. Sort of. However, they do not exist in a vacuum. Their standards must align with a majority of their members.

That was however not the point I was trying to make. If they allow some sort of activism, then they open the door for all types of activism. Are they then going to punish some of the activities, and not others. That could lead to some sort of chaos. And pundits declaring that that a protest meant something that was not intended. And so on.

Better to not allow any kind of protests. And instead focus on the entertainment it is supposed to be. Plenty of times for the activists to protest outside the games.


I agree.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 21
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 5:38:23 PM   
t001001001

 

Posts: 322
Joined: 4/30/2009
Status: offline 		I applaud matrixgames for allowing this discussion and the users who've kept it civil.

I look at it from a revenue point. Ratings is everything for these events. If very few ppl watch it, it's just a big fat waste of investment. None of my business b/c I won't watch anyway (I'm not interested in sports, not knocking anyone who is, everyone has different interests), and I don't care what the athletes think about anything. If I had money in this thing though - I'd be furious.

< Message edited by t001001001 -- 7/26/2021 5:39:44 PM >

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 22
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 5:44:35 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Furious with who?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to t001001001)
Post #: 23
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 6:05:49 PM   
t001001001

 

Posts: 322
Joined: 4/30/2009
Status: offline 		At athletes who feel compelled to politic at improper venue and cause this:

"Ratings for Olympics Opening Ceremony Fall 36% From 2016 "

A complete ratings disaster. Catastrophic! I don't manage my IRA, but I sure hope none of my money is invested in this ratings disaster. It probably is in some way or another


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 24
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 8:31:38 PM   
Zap


Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline 		My spirit has been dampened this Olympics. All that's happening here in USA is very unsettling. I'm distracted by it all. Although, I have watched some, its been much less then in previous years and with much less enthusiasm..

< Message edited by Zap -- 7/26/2021 8:33:04 PM >

(in reply to t001001001)
Post #: 25
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 8:43:40 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		I keep trying to compose an appropriate post for this thread. But I guess it's impossible to achieve, while keeping the thread from being locked.

So I'll stick to the sport action and ignore a thread that produces only feelings of profound sadness but sadly, no surprise.

I do like the amended Olympic motto and the addition of a word:

Faster, Higher, Stronger - Together





< Message edited by warspite1 -- 7/26/2021 8:47:53 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 26
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 10:24:26 PM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		My sympathies with the athletes.

But my love for the event died a long way back and several games ago.

It stopped being about the participants, and too much about the event.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 27
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 10:31:06 PM   
gamer78

 

Posts: 536
Joined: 8/17/2011
Status: offline 		Every single thing and including all sport barnches is about politics and money. For sport even choosing host nation is about politics. In Hollywood Oscars they make speech politically why they don't make it locally. They wait for for world watching it. And one must ask why there are LGBT Symbols for most sports but not Scottish flag in olympics.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 28
RE: Olympics - 7/26/2021 10:48:43 PM   
Garfieldthecat

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

I agree with you, but for me I despise the anti whatever country demonstrations that the athletes feel they must indulge in to bring disgrace to the games. So many good athletes, but the few who destroy the meaning of bringing honor to those whom you are supposed to represent I absolutely detest . I choose not to watch anyone who brings disgrace to themselves, their team, and their country.


+1
If you do not want to represent your country, then don't. Just don't go - in fact, find another country since the one that you are representing is so bad.


Found the person who doesn't understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism. Not surprised.

Athletes who stand up to racism and other forms of discrimination are patriots.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 29
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