Help\Thoughts about UAVs

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> The War Room >> Help\Thoughts about UAVs

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Help\Thoughts about UAVs - 4/26/2017 3:04:37 AM

DWReese

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From: Miami, Florida
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I have never used an UAVs, but they seem to be very popular.

I see that some can be armed, and others can be used for OECM, which is interesting.

The one thing that I see that I am having trouble understanding "how" they would be used is the fact that they fly so slow. If you sent on OECM UAV in with a trike package, it would have to leave much sooner that the strikers because it flies at 4 to 5 times slower than the other planes. And, if you did manage to get it there ahead of the strikers, how does it escape? The strikers would be long gone and the UAV would still be flying back home.

The seem to have a large radius. I assume that they are really hard to detect, otherwise they would be shot down all of the time.

Can someone give me a brief description as to how they be used with a strike package, and exactly what I should expect if I did manage to sneak it it to perform some OECM duties? Would it likely be detected and shot down, or would it sneak in and fly around almost unnoticed?

I'm just curious.

Thanks

Doug

Post #: 1

RE: Help\Thoughts about UAVs - 4/26/2017 9:50:16 AM

Rhygin00

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Well the UAV is meant to loiter for some time on target, for many hours. That way they can see the movement, comings and goings at/of the target, produce better recon and are more likely to be there when a target of opportunity pops up.

What I noticed with CMANO drones is that they not necessarily correspond to drone footage available on say, Youtube. The real life footage seems to get a better picture of the ground than what is available in CMANO. In RL people for example are readily visible from altitudes where the drone cannot be seen with the naked eye. In CMANO, the Reaper has trouble marking out the rebel forces, while the ground pounders can see the drone at 12000 feet no problem. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but when doing long term surveillance of ground forces, the drone is always spotted on a clear day. Maybe there's a sweet spot altitude?

< Message edited by Rhygin00 -- 4/26/2017 9:52:22 AM >

(in reply to DWReese)

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RE: Help\Thoughts about UAVs - 4/26/2017 12:00:35 PM

DWReese

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From: Miami, Florida
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Thanks for responding.

I tried to set up a situation where a drone entered an area protected by a LR SAM and with an operating radar unit. The drone was immediately observed as soon as it was within range of the radar unit, and it was immediately fired upon as soon as it was within range of the SAM unit. So, obviously, drones aren't "stealthy" for sure.

If they are easily detected, then how do they ever get into an area where SAM units are present without getting shot down? Do they fly under the radar, and pop up when they are in-range? Or, do they really only operate in areas where there are no SAM threats?

Doug

(in reply to Rhygin00)

Post #: 3

RE: Help\Thoughts about UAVs - 4/26/2017 12:26:08 PM

lowchi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DWReese

Thanks for responding.

I tried to set up a situation where a drone entered an area protected by a LR SAM and with an operating radar unit. The drone was immediately observed as soon as it was within range of the radar unit, and it was immediately fired upon as soon as it was within range of the SAM unit. So, obviously, drones aren't "stealthy" for sure.

If they are easily detected, then how do they ever get into an area where SAM units are present without getting shot down? Do they fly under the radar, and pop up when they are in-range? Or, do they really only operate in areas where there are no SAM threats?

Doug

Hi,

i think non-stealthy drones (MQ-9 ect.) dont operate in high thread environments. For your scenario try the stealthy RQ-170 or RQ-180.

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RE: Help\Thoughts about UAVs - 4/26/2017 12:43:54 PM

Primarchx

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UAVs typically operate in environments permissible to their capabilities. You don't see AC-130 gunships participating in airstrikes against SAM or fighter defended targets, either. That said it's less of a concern if you lose a UAV because of the lack of a crew.

(in reply to lowchi)

Post #: 5

RE: Help\Thoughts about UAVs - 4/26/2017 12:46:08 PM

mikmykWS

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Exactly. The slow loiter stuff is only good where there isn't a threat.

If you think the optics are goofed please post data or at least specify a unit. There are now tons of drones in the db with tons of sensors.

Thanks

Mike

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RE: Help\Thoughts about UAVs - 4/26/2017 2:49:50 PM

DWReese

Posts: 1824
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From: Miami, Florida
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Hi Mike,

No, I didn't think that anything was 'goofed" at all, that was the reason that I placed my message in the War Room, rather than Tech Support. I was merely asking about UAV tactics in general.

Thanks for responding, though. I will miss you when you aren't around here like you normally are.

Doug

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 7

RE: Help\Thoughts about UAVs - 4/26/2017 3:11:13 PM

mikmykWS

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I'm leaving the work part but not the fun part. So yeah probably won't be seeing much of you.

Mike

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RE: Help\Thoughts about UAVs - 10/6/2021 8:59:00 PM

nukkxx5058

Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DWReese

Thanks for responding.

I tried to set up a situation where a drone entered an area protected by a LR SAM and with an operating radar unit. The drone was immediately observed as soon as it was within range of the radar unit, and it was immediately fired upon as soon as it was within range of the SAM unit. So, obviously, drones aren't "stealthy" for sure.

If they are easily detected, then how do they ever get into an area where SAM units are present without getting shot down? Do they fly under the radar, and pop up when they are in-range? Or, do they really only operate in areas where there are no SAM threats?

Doug

I'm having similar problems with my drones in Kashmir Fire #2 Retaliation. As India I have drones #2575 - Searcher II UAV (India - 2004) with area surveillance loadout.

quote:

Area Surveillance
(Area Surveillance) 820 nm Area Surveillance radius. Cruise at optimum altitude and speed. No form-up time. 10% reserves. 3 hr Day/Night

Limited All-Weather Winchester: Return to base when mission-specific weapons have been expended. Disengage immediately. DBID 20119

Available onboard sensor is :

quote:

1x Generic FLIR 30 nm Infrared, Surveillance Camera Infrared, 2nd Generation Imaging (1980s/1990s, LANTIRN, Litening) ) Technology, Air Search, Surface Search, Ground Search (Fixed), Ground Search (Mobile), Heading Info PB1, PB2, PMF1, PMF2, SB1, SB2, SMF1, SMF2

And no idea how to use them? They get easily detected and immediately shut down. And Camera has 30nm range so they need to get close to ennemy SAMs. Any advice ?
Thanks

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 9

RE: Help\Thoughts about UAVs - 10/6/2021 9:05:19 PM

BDukes

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What's your altitude. You probably want to be 2000 ft or lower.

Mike

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Don't call it a comeback...

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RE: Help\Thoughts about UAVs - 10/6/2021 9:06:06 PM

nukkxx5058

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I tried this too ... without sucess.

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Post #: 11

RE: Help\Thoughts about UAVs - 10/7/2021 12:31:08 PM

tylerblakebrandon

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Looking at some of the coverage (example below) coming out of the conflicts in Libya and Nagorno-Karabakh where non-stealthy drones have been successful against modern SAM systems it looks like in some cases at least the UAV has been able to stay above some SAM's like the SA-15. They also seem to at times exploit inexperience or lax-operation of the SAMs and the restriction of use or poor-coordination of additional assets like manned fighters.

In Command I think the scenario authors would need to ratchet down SAM/AAA proficiency, restrict other supporting assets like fighters (mission areas, ROE, and WRA) and radars, and also deploy SAM's in a way that they aren't as mutually supporting as they should be.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2021/10/armenias-last-deterrent-buk-m1-2.html

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RE: Help\Thoughts about UAVs - 10/11/2021 11:15:03 PM

SeaQueen

Posts: 1451
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From: Washington D.C.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DWReese
The seem to have a large radius. I assume that they are really hard to detect, otherwise they would be shot down all of the time.

They get shot down all the time and unless they employ LO technologies they're not necessarily any more inherently difficult to detect than any other aircraft. The thing is, since it's just a robot, you don't really care. Drones are supposed to be disposable. In fact, one-way drone attacks (where they don't care if they get it back) are commonplace in the Middle East. The Houthis do them all the time. Explosives laden drones have become the poor man's cruise missile.

quote:

Can someone give me a brief description as to how they be used with a strike package, and exactly what I should expect if I did manage to sneak it it to perform some OECM duties? Would it likely be detected and shot down, or would it sneak in and fly around almost unnoticed?

I can think of lots of things to do. Since drones are fairly vulnerable, you'd probably want to put them out of SAM/AAA range, but at an altitude such that they have a radar line of site to the thing you want to be jammed. Position it along the axis you intend to have your strikers ingress and egress on, so that they're looking directly into your jamming beam when they want to target your airplanes. Get your drones into position by flying them low.

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 13