1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theaters AAR

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1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theaters AAR - 11/17/2021 2:30:51 PM

LOK32MK

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New scenario playtesting. The scenario attempts to recreate the NATO-Warsaw Pact conflict in late 1988 in the Western and Southwestern Theater of Military Operations (TVD) shortly after the end of the Iran-Iraq war but before the collapse of the Warsaw Pact. Scale is 10 km/hex. Division-Brigade-Regiment level.
The scenario starts with a ceasefire. The ceasefire will be lifted between turns 2 to 6.
First turn has the Warsaw Pact move its units from their peacetime positions closer to the front. The Central Front is the most important but other fronts (Northern, and the southern flank) are also important.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/17/2021 8:34:01 PM

larryfulkerson

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I received the game's first turn moves from Haris and watched the entire thing. At least 10K of those events were involved in moving his planes and ships. I'll attach the first moves file available below if you want to watch the playback.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/17/2021 8:36:16 PM

larryfulkerson

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Here's the first turn moves as I received them from Haris. Just clip off the ".txt" from the filename.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/17/2021 8:38:01 PM

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Haris includes a PDF file with his download for the scenario and I've attached it here below.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/18/2021 1:36:42 AM

larryfulkerson

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I thought I ought to put together a quick reference guide to the Allies aircraft, planes and helicopters, so I can figure out which planes I should use for AS and which I should use as CS, etc. These are aircraft deployed by one nation or another in the game.

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 11/18/2021 4:34:37 AM >

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/18/2021 10:19:51 AM

larryfulkerson

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I thought I'd do one for the Soviet side as well:

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 11/18/2021 10:20:10 AM >

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/18/2021 12:06:02 PM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I thought I ought to put together a quick reference guide to the Allies aircraft, planes and helicopters, so I can figure out which planes I should use for AS and which I should use as CS, etc. These are aircraft deployed by one nation or another in the game.

Your analysis graphics are always great. I do this kind of exercise in modern scenarios when I'm not so familiar with the aircraft types in play and it's fascinating to see you're doing the same.

Is there an Excel version of the standard database floating around (or readily exportable)? I have an old one but it's just wwii stuff. With this you could filter down for the aircraft you have and do some work to quickly rank your aircraft by A2A vs. A2G capability and move up or down the scale depending on the level of AS you need to achieve. More efficient than having to keep going back into the equipment list and check the items one by one.

Come to think you could do a great scatter plot with that data :)

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/18/2021 12:54:59 PM

larryfulkerson

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In the *.eqp file each of the items of equipment have an item number and several
characteristics as follows:

<ITEM_1678>
<NAME>Su-25 Frogfoot</NAME>
<COUNTRY>Soviet Union - 1981</COUNTRY>
<EQUIP1>269</EQUIP1>
<EQUIP2>356</EQUIP2>
<AT>4</AT>
<AP>34</AP>
<AA>24</AA> [ anti air strength ]
<DF>22</DF> [ defense strength ]
<ARTY_RNG>220</ARTY_RNG>
<EARLY_RNG>0</EARLY_RNG>
<SAM_RNG>0</SAM_RNG>
<NUKE>75000</NUKE>
<VOL>999</VOL>
<WEIGHT>0</WEIGHT>
<SHELL_W>250</SHELL_W>
<ARMOR>1</ARMOR>
<DEFENDER>1</DEFENDER>
<FLAG0>4</FLAG0>
<FLAG1>32</FLAG1>
<FLAG2>4</FLAG2>
<FLAG3>0</FLAG3>
<FLAG4>56</FLAG4>
<FLAG5>2</FLAG5>
<FLAG6>0</FLAG6>
<FLAG7>0</FLAG7>
</ITEM_1678>

And the anti-ship rating of 8 is hidden in the flag values I guess.

And the values of the flags is as follows:

[ flag0 ]








[ flag1 ]








[ flag2 ]








[ flag3 ]








[ flag4 ]









[ flag5 ]








[ flag6 ]








[ flag7 ]









So the flag values mean:

<FLAG0>4</FLAG0>
<FLAG1>32</FLAG1>
<FLAG2>4</FLAG2>
<FLAG3>0</FLAG3>[ unk ]
<FLAG4>56</FLAG4>




<FLAG5>2</FLAG5>
<FLAG6>0</FLAG6>[ unk ]
<FLAG7>0</FLAG7>[ unk ]

But I have no idea how to sort the aircraft in this form. I think you're right that it would take an excel sheet to find what info we need.

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 11/18/2021 8:32:37 PM >

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/18/2021 7:36:48 PM

LOK32MK

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Larry
you are amazing! I forgot to mention the scenario uses TOAW IV v.4.1.0.40 and the expanded (and amazing) equipment database by Josant:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4431184

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/18/2021 8:21:23 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LOK32MK
Larry
you are amazing! I forgot to mention the scenario uses TOAW IV v.4.1.0.40 and the expanded (and amazing) equipment database by Josant:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4431184

Yes, and I went to that link and grabbed the latest version and everything is cool. I don't know how amazing I might be but part of that might be due to the medical marijuana I'm using. Right now it's "tiny shoes" but I have some "orange haze" for backup. My absolute favorite is "girl scout cookies" but that is rare for Tucson lately. I think it helps me think out of the box.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/18/2021 10:40:01 PM

larryfulkerson

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The air report say that the NATO side has 215 aircraft, including helicopters. I'm pretty sure the WP side has more than that. I'll have to take a look.

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 11/18/2021 10:41:04 PM >

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/18/2021 10:58:39 PM

larryfulkerson

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The range of the F-16 Fighting Falcon is ordinarily 550 hexes but that extends beyond the edge of the map and I don't need that much to cover the AO I want them to operate in so of the F-16 unit stationed at Bobo in Norway, I reduced it to 160 to mostly cover the Murmansk area and ignore everything else. As you can see, the F-16 is one of the better NATO fighters which is what is needed to counter the Soviet bombers and fighters near Murmansk.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/18/2021 11:33:00 PM

larryfulkerson

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I've finally started moving units after having spent some time reading the PDF file and constructing those quick reference charts. I've come to a unit that I think is supposed to be a submarine that is built around a Missle Corvette unit. It's got a significant anti-shipping capability ( 450 ) so it's going to play a key role in my effort to battle the Soviet navy. I'm not sure but I think the Soviet navy has more ships than NATO does. I'll have to look into that. The OOB says that I have 1329 total units on the map and a good proportion of that is ships and planes.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/18/2021 11:51:49 PM

larryfulkerson

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According to the OOB I have 2 Airmobile Hvy Weapons units, one from the UK and one French and they are similar with the kinds and numbers of the various types of equipment, both have organic airlift, multiple attack helicopters, organic arty, etc. These are valuable units and I can see me using them a lot to put out bushfires as a mobile defensive unit. I can see that I need to have a look at the insides of Soviet units to know exactly what I'm up against.

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 11/19/2021 12:01:55 AM >

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/19/2021 12:02:36 AM

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So far there's only one airmobile unit and it's Spanish and it reminds me of the Airmobile Hvy Weapons units I studied previously but this unit has organic transportation in the form of trucks and VEC's etc. I need to do a sandbox test to see if the vehicles fly when the unit flies.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/19/2021 12:15:26 AM

larryfulkerson

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Okay, I moved that Spanish unit to an airfield a long distance from the origin and I notice right away that none of the VEC scouts made the trip and the number of trucks is down significantly. It's movement range was 12 before but now it's down to 7, because of lack of trucks I guess.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/19/2021 12:26:20 AM

larryfulkerson

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I have two amphibious units one French and one Italian. Their equipment is similiar and both have large ferry values. These guys are like heavily armed pontoon units. And there are some organic engineers to help fix broken bridges.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/19/2021 11:29:03 AM

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Warsaw Pact 2nd turn. Still in ceasefire. More troop movements to get the units to the front.
Here are some notes on the design philosophy. The map was made used the Hexgrid generator and Google Earth (using overlays for topography, landcover etc. and population statistics for cities).
The OOB came from a myriad of on-line and other sources that I have accumulated over the decades (I started this scenario playing the GDW The Third World War board games). I tried to be as faithful to the OOBs as I could but some minor adjustments were made when necessary.
Initially I tried to be very precise with the TOEs and used the Military Balance publications to make sure I did not exceed specific equipment holdings for most countries. However, some adjustments were necessary for TOAW. For example, air mobile (air assault) units were allocated their own helicopter transports (significantly exceeding helicopter transport holdings) to improve play. Some weapon systems do not exist in the TOAW database and appropriate substitutes were used.
For air units I tried to separate air units by aircraft type whenever possible. Reconnaissance aircraft were included in the OOB but air transport aircraft (e.g. C-130 or C-5s) were not used.
For naval units I used the ship classes in the expanded database whenever possible (not all ship classes are available). All subs use the naval task force icon. For submarines I used ship classes that have high anti-ship ratings as Larry pointed out. For example, SSNs are Missile cruisers, with higher anti-ship rating, SS are missile frigates or missile corvettes depending on the ship class. No landing craft were used in the OOB and there was no way to model SSGNs.
Nuclear weapons are modeled as fixed or mobile missile units for land based missiles. SSBNs are naval task force units with ICBMs that are deployed in special sea hexes with roads.
I want to thank Larry for his detailed analysis and for play testing the scenario.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/19/2021 3:55:04 PM

larryfulkerson

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For T2 Haris is moving a lot of ground troops to the Murmansk area. Nato doesn't have much in the way of defense up there except for that one Norweigeon unit [ the blue one on the left near the coast ]. I moved some F-16's within range of this area just in case.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/19/2021 4:27:58 PM

larryfulkerson

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Haris has moved a lot of ground troops to the border as far as they can go. I'm wondering if I should start breaking bridges already.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/19/2021 4:40:13 PM

larryfulkerson

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In T1 I decided to move an AAA unit and had to leave behind some equipment that couldn't move ( the Nike-Hercules SAM's ) and now in T2 after I disembark the unit from the train I notice that my Nike-Hercules SAM equipment was "lost" and that tells me not to move the AAA units that has that equipment as part of it's allocation of equipment. I would rather that those "lost" missles would have gone back to the pools instead of being "lost". That's what I expected to happen and it didn't.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/19/2021 5:02:07 PM

larryfulkerson

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I decided to drop a bridge near the border just so the Soviets can't use it. I expect Haris to use the RR capability that he has to move more units toward the front lines when the conflict becomes kinetic. I'm going to set a lot of my bombers to INT to stifle the Soviet advance for all the good that will do. I don't have any B-52's or B-1's which is a disappointment because they would have come in really handy in the early turns but I DO expect to have some to use before the game is over because they are listed in the inventory.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/19/2021 8:06:22 PM

LOK32MK

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quote:

In T1 I decided to move an AAA unit and had to leave behind some equipment that couldn't move ( the Nike-Hercules SAM's ) and now in T2 after I disembark the unit from the train I notice that my Nike-Hercules SAM equipment was "lost" and that tells me not to move the AAA units that has that equipment as part of it's allocation of equipment. I would rather that those "lost" missles would have gone back to the pools instead of being "lost". That's what I expected to happen and it didn't.

I should put this in the briefing. There are two kinds of AA units: Fixed SAM sites and mobile units with different equipment (that was true in real life). I tried to use different icons for them (mobile AA or regular AA). I may have missed some. The fixed units will lose their fixed AA guns/SAMs if you move them.
Since only very few units reconstitute (mostly SF and Airborne/Marines) - I think that's why the equipment does not go back to the pool?

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/19/2021 10:59:06 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LOK32MK

quote:

In T1 I decided to move an AAA unit and had to leave behind some equipment that couldn't move ( the Nike-Hercules SAM's ) and now in T2 after I disembark the unit from the train I notice that my Nike-Hercules SAM equipment was "lost" and that tells me not to move the AAA units that has that equipment as part of it's allocation of equipment. I would rather that those "lost" missles would have gone back to the pools instead of being "lost". That's what I expected to happen and it didn't.

I should put this in the briefing. There are two kinds of AA units: Fixed SAM sites and mobile units with different equipment (that was true in real life). I tried to use different icons for them (mobile AA or regular AA). I may have missed some. The fixed units will lose their fixed AA guns/SAMs if you move them.
Since only very few units reconstitute (mostly SF and Airborne/Marines) - I think that's why the equipment does not go back to the pool?

Ok, makes sense. So by that same logic any units that are disbanded are just gone from the game. 10-4?

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/19/2021 11:12:29 PM

LOK32MK

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Yes that's my understanding from the manual

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/20/2021 5:22:26 PM

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quote:

And the anti-ship rating of 8 is hidden in the flag values I guess.

Larry,

There are three "cases" as to how anti-shipping value is generated. I wrote this up a while ago:

quote:

First requirement to generate anti-shipping capability: The anti-shipping flag has to be toggled on (FLAG3 has to include the value "2").

Two cases follow. The second case is in effect when the "torpedo bomber flag" is toggled on (FLAG7 has to include the value "128"), else, the first case applies.

Note that in both cases, when the antipersonnel rating is set to zero, the anti-shipping capability is still present but attacks may only be conducted against naval units.

First case -- anti-shipping on, not a torpedo bomber.
Antipersonnel rating            Anti-shipping capability

0				120	can attack only naval units
1 ... 15			120
16 ... 23			240
24+   			        360
Second case -- anti-shipping on, is a torpedo bomber.
Antipersonnel rating            Anti-shipping capability

0				240	can attack only naval units
1 ... 11	                240
12 ... 17			480
18+			        720
There is also a third case in which anti-shipping capability is auto-generated. This is the case in which the anti-shipping flag is NOT toggled and a (smallish) anti-shipping capability is made available based upon the AP value.

the anti-ship capability is figured as the square root of (two times the AP rating), rounded down.

Example: AP is 0. 0 times 2 = 0. Square root of 0 is 0, the anti-ship rating.

Example: AP is 8. 8 times 2 = 16. Square root of 16 is 4, the anti-ship rating.

Example: AP is 9. 9 times 2 = 18. Square root of 18 is 4.2426. Round down to 4, this is the anti-ship rating.

Highest allowed AP rating is 8000 (!) This works out to an anti-ship rating of 126 after rounding down. (Higher AP ratings can be entered, but TOAW will treat them as 8000.)

Cheers

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/20/2021 6:03:02 PM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LOK32MK
Since only very few units reconstitute (mostly SF and Airborne/Marines) - I think that's why the equipment does not go back to the pool?

Fixed equipment always goes to "lost" when the unit abandons it to move, regardless of other conditions.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/20/2021 7:01:04 PM

LOK32MK

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Thanks for the clarification. That explains it.

Larry,
I forgot to mention that you will get B-52 and B-1s (and lots of others, F-117, F-15s, F-16s etc.) as reinforcements. Most reinforcements are deployed (triggered) by Events. I think that's why they do not show up in expected reinforcements. Also several B-1 and B-52 wings were supposed to be deployed in the Middle East (part of the Rapid Deployment Force) and some in the Pacific (they are included in the Middle East and Pacific scenarios).

Turn 3: We are still in a ceasefire which gave the Warsaw Pact time to position most of its units to the front lines and keep some in reserve for the second echelon attacks.
There is a fundamental issue with sea hex ownership during ceasefires. I made sure to limit the Warsaw pact naval movements during the ceasefire by changing sea hex ownership of specific hexes. However, NATO still cannot move naval or do naval transport unless I change sea hex ownership in the editor. It's easy to do for short specific paths but changing ownership of all sea hexes is too painful. That leaves NATO at a disadvantage the first turn. Any suggestions how to fix this?

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/21/2021 1:57:43 PM

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The cease fire is over. The war started on Turn 4.
Northern Front: The Warsaw pact made slow progress with a couple of attacks and airborne assaults and attacks on naval units by the Northern Fleet air units.
Central font: Massive airborne and heliborne assault with Polish and Soviet units against Denmark (Copenhagen). Bombardment against ports and airfields to destroy NATO air & naval units in the Baltic and North sea.
In the Northern Army Group (NORTHAG) a couple of major attacks towards Kiel and Hamburg.
In the Central Army Group (CENTAG) a couple of major attacks towards Frankfurt (through the Fulda gap) and southern Germany. However, there is a weird bug. Some units which should have plenty of movement start the turn with zero movement. I am not sure why.
Southern Front: The Bulgarian army captured Edirne but did not make much progress against the Turkish 1st Army despite Soviet assistance. Soviet air and naval bombardments against ports, airfields and NATO naval units.

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RE: 1988 Global War Game Western and Southwestern Theat... - 11/21/2021 2:06:01 PM

golden delicious

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With all those red density lights I would have thought the first move for the Soviet player would be to divide down the large units. The drop in unit proficiency would be worth it for the reduced losses- as I recall a red light means at least 2x losses.

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