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I It's almost time - 2/13/2004 6:32:33 AM

rich12545

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About six months ago I again posted a complaint about Brent who never finished MCLV but who kept promising he would. At that time he promised to have it ready by the end of February, 2004. At this point I'm not encouraged. Hopefully he's been working on it and will post the final update in the next couple of weeks. If anybody knows how to reach him, please send him a reminder of his latest promise.

I've been a supporter of spwaw and the mega campaigns for more than three years. I'm constantly overwhelmed at the amount of work and devotion put into this game by Matrix and volunteers. It's a real shame to see mclv go unfinished for almost two years.

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/13/2004 7:15:20 AM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

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Refresh me, what exactly is "wrong" with it. I know you have a complaint, and potentially well thought out, I just don't recall it.

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/13/2004 7:35:02 AM

rich12545

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You don't recall it?

Ok, there is missing some historical data etc from the end of the game. Brent acknowledges this. He has promised over and over to produce the final update. It's not a bug. The scenarios can be played without a problem. But the game isn't finished. Since I paid for it I don't feel I'm being unreasonable in wanting it to be completed. And it's been almost two years. It's past being ridiculous, don't you think?

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/13/2004 10:02:18 AM

Muzrub

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How are you going there rich666?

Keeping busy?

Waiting for patches and new games is like waiting for peace in the middle east!

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/13/2004 1:56:16 PM

Warrior2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muzrub

How are you going there rich666?

Keeping busy?

Waiting for patches and new games is like waiting for peace in the middle east!

Well said!

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/13/2004 4:05:06 PM

Goblin

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rich was much more restrained than usual.

He does have a point too. A paid for product should be finished, especially if someone said it would be. If someone said 'No, its not going to be finished', then I would say rich should give it up. That's not the case. Don't say you will do something and not do it.

I notice people say 'But its playable to the finish. That other stuff is just extra." I submit to you that the other 'extra' stuff is what you buy a mega campaign for in the first place, is it not?

Either way, I think rich was very polite this time, lol...

Goblin

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/13/2004 5:25:37 PM

Orzel Bialy

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Ok...I got involved with this topic the last time around...and that turned into a "weeping wound" topic....so here's my final piece on the matter.

IT WILL GET DONE THE DAY BRENT DECIDES IT IS THE TOP PRIORITY OF MATRIX GAMES TO DO IT!

I'm not trying to defend the delay involved...but this should be painfully obvious to even the dimmest of light bulbs by now that the "missing work" on LV is not on their top ten list.

< Message edited by Orzel Bialy -- 2/13/2004 9:29:59 AM >

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/13/2004 5:45:02 PM

Belisarius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

rich was much more restrained than usual.

He does have a point too. A paid for product should be finished, especially if someone said it would be. If someone said 'No, its not going to be finished', then I would say rich should give it up. That's not the case. Don't say you will do something and not do it.

I notice people say 'But its playable to the finish. That other stuff is just extra." I submit to you that the other 'extra' stuff is what you buy a mega campaign for in the first place, is it not?

Either way, I think rich was very polite this time, lol...

Goblin

Well said.

Now, can we bury this topic?

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/13/2004 6:58:51 PM

rich12545

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How are you going there rich666?
Keeping busy?

Well Muzzie I see you finally came over to spwaw. Nice to hear from you.

I notice people say 'But its playable to the finish. That other stuff is just extra." I submit to you that the other 'extra' stuff is what you buy a mega campaign for in the first place, is it not?

Hi Goblin, you're exactly right. Otherwise why not just play one of the free campaigns, or the long campaign. $25 plus shipping for a mega is a lot when you consider all the free stuff there. I don't believe it's asking a lot for it to be finished. And yes, it wasn't easy to be restrained. After waiting almost two years I'm just about at the boiling point.

IT WILL GET DONE THE DAY BRENT DECIDES IT IS THE TOP PRIORITY OF MATRIX GAMES TO DO IT!

This is CRAP. He has promised over and over again. It's time to quit promising and start delivering.

Now, can we bury this topic?

Just as soon as one of two things happen.
1. Brent posts the final update.
2. Brent says he's never going to finish the game thereby saying screw all the people who bought it.

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Post #: 9

RE: I It's almost time - 2/14/2004 5:50:33 AM

Orzel Bialy

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Rich,

Every six months or so you post the same crap...how you feel ripped off because the missing material hasn't been delivered yet...and you take your pokes at Brent as if you expect that will result in some magical appearance of the promised data.

At this point why don't you PM David Heath and just ask for some sort of refund and/or compensation...and then get on with your life?

< Message edited by Orzel Bialy -- 2/13/2004 9:58:49 PM >

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/14/2004 7:33:05 AM

Goblin

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Wow Orzel, I gotta say that I think you are going overboard on someone that doesn't deserve it.

I was raised so that when I say I will do something, I do it, or say that I have failed to live up to what I said I would do. Either way, no one is kept guessing and baited along. You honestly think rich is just trying to be an idiot? He paid for something, and if told a year ago that the thing was just going to not be done, then would have not brought it up again. But he has not been told that.

Sorry, but I would call my own brother on it if he said he would do something and didn't. I have nothing against Brent, and you know it. I wonder how you would like to get jumped on when you have a complaint soetime, that you believe to be legitimate?

Goblin

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/14/2004 7:44:04 AM

Wild Bill

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Here we go again.

Rich has a point. One cannot deny that. I don't think, however, it will be settled here. The fact that this has not been addressed deserves attention. If it it going to be done, it should be done. If it is not going to be done, then that should be stated.

Brent Richards is one of my closest war-gaming buddies. We've been through a lot together. We shared a lot together. He is a good man. When we had the opportunity last year to meet in Atlanta during his visit and broke bread together, it was a very rewarding experience.

I would defend Brent to anyone anywhere. So I am not speaking out against him by what I am now writing.

I also feel that Rich has made some very positive contributions to this forum and seems to be a level headed gentleman.

By way of clarification, a Mega Campaign is a series of scenarios but it is much more as though who have worked on them or played them know very well. It is a complete package of writing, history, insights, pictures, information AND battles. It should all be there.

If Rich had been told earlier that this was not going to be done, the issue would have already been settled, right or wrong. But as I remember, he was told to hold on...or am I wrong here?

He has held on and deserves an answer ... not from me, or any of us except Brent and/or David Heath. I hope that will be forthcoming.

I would reiterate the suggestion, Rich, that you write both David and Brent and ask for a definitive reply. Only there are you going to get your final answer.

I hope it is resolved soon, one way or the other.

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Post #: 12

RE: I It's almost time - 2/14/2004 4:25:38 PM

Orzel Bialy

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Goblin,

My objection is to how it's being handled on both sides. Rich should be emailing / PM'ing David Heath and/or Brent Richards...and they should do likewise in return until the matter is resolved in some fashion. We've all seen where prior posts like this lead to.

post note...I posted after I saw Goblin's post without reading what the Kunel said...which is kind of my position...so my note is a " here here" to the idea that the issue be settled between them.

< Message edited by Orzel Bialy -- 2/14/2004 8:30:55 AM >

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/14/2004 4:34:16 PM

Goblin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orzel Bialy

Goblin,

My objection is to how it's being handled on both sides. Rich should be emailing / PM'ing David Heath and/or Brent Richards...and they should do likewise in return until the matter is resolved in some fashion. We've all seen where prior posts like this lead to.

post note...I posted after I saw Goblin's post without reading what the Kunel said...which is kind of my position...so my note is a " here here" to the idea that the issue be settled between them.

Public or private, nothing compels you to post to or even read this thread. Maybe its his way of communicating with them. Should he have checked with the forum police to see if he was breaking etiquette? He is a forum member and deserves to post what he likes here, as long as he stays civil, which he obviously did. Other people didn't....

Goblin

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/14/2004 5:36:42 PM

rich12545

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Six months ago, at WB's suggestion, I emailed Brent and asked him about the final update to mclv. He emailed back a nice letter and, among other things, promised to have it done by the end of February. That wasn't the first time he promised to have it done by a certain time and didn't but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Time's not quite up but, since he hasn't posted since then so far as I can tell, I am not optimistic. I thought about emailing him again but figured "what's the point?", he'll just promise to have it done by summer and hope I go away by then.

I see nothing wrong with posting here instead of emailing Brent or David. This is a forum. This is where we post questions, concerns and try to help newbies. There are probably many others who purchased mclv who would like to see the final update but are afraid of getting responses like Orzel's. And there are others who might be thinking of purchasing mclv who should be aware of the situation before making a decision. That would be only fair.

What's really sad is that the update, if it ever gets done, will be minor. What I gather from Brent is it should take him maybe 10 hours or so to complete. So why doesn't he just finish it already?

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/14/2004 5:39:30 PM

Orzel Bialy

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Well you have one point...in regard to being compelled to read this (or any) post.

I've read my last one on this thread...that much I know for sure. Good luck to all the parties involved...hope they resolve it.

Adios!

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/14/2004 6:15:27 PM

KG Erwin

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Well, Rich, you said it all right here--"end of February". IF there's going to be a patch, then Brent has two more weeks to work on it. Let it go for now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich12545

Six months ago, at WB's suggestion, I emailed Brent and asked him about the final update to mclv. He emailed back a nice letter and, among other things, promised to have it done by the end of February. That wasn't the first time he promised to have it done by a certain time and didn't but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Time's not quite up but, since he hasn't posted since then so far as I can tell, I am not optimistic. I thought about emailing him again but figured "what's the point?", he'll just promise to have it done by summer and hope I go away by then.

I see nothing wrong with posting here instead of emailing Brent or David. This is a forum. This is where we post questions, concerns and try to help newbies. There are probably many others who purchased mclv who would like to see the final update but are afraid of getting responses like Orzel's. And there are others who might be thinking of purchasing mclv who should be aware of the situation before making a decision. That would be only fair.

What's really sad is that the update, if it ever gets done, will be minor. What I gather from Brent is it should take him maybe 10 hours or so to complete. So why doesn't he just finish it already?

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/14/2004 6:33:16 PM

rich12545

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I will. And I sincerely hope I won't need to bring it up again.

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/19/2004 4:56:24 AM

Klinkenhoffen

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I'll just stay out this this time around.

Rich12545 you know my position.

Klinkenhoffen

< Message edited by Klinkenhoffen -- 2/19/2004 1:06:55 PM >

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/19/2004 7:10:52 AM

rich12545

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Seems like I recall you weren't real positive about my post. Btw, have you purchased MCLV?

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/24/2004 2:10:00 AM

Tombstone

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I agree with this Rich guy's point, but all in all, for the price MCLV give a LOT of content and play time. It's a really good product that, when compared to other products in its price range, stands out as a really good buy. Old school SPWAW disciples are certainly a little touchy when it comes to attacks on the motherland though (heh)... I don't think that's a bad thing, one need only to understand our fanaticism to be cool with the vibe. Not to say that you aren't an SPWAW fantaic Rich, anyone who get's all the way through LV get's kudos for being a nutcase SPWAW player. That definitely puts you into a small club, I think it just gets people crazy because they feel like you should be on board with the trials and tribulations of Matrix Games' efforts at surviving the game publisher/developer pinch once you've seen what delicious goodness they're tirelessly trying to provide us.

Tomo

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/24/2004 3:37:20 AM

rich12545

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Just to clarify, I haven't yet played any campaign let alone mclv although I plan to soon. I purchased the first three, and plan to get the fourth soon, more as a way of supporting the massive effort Matrix has put into spwaw than anything else. I've never had time to invest in a campaign but enjoy the hell out of playing the game. Looks like time this year will open up a bit and I hope to start playing campaigns.

I think it is partly the huge effort Matrix has put into spwaw that leaves me so shocked at this minor problem. We're talking maybe 5-10 hours to finish the game. In comparison to the whole that's probably less than 1%. Yet Brent continues to promise the update over and over again only to flake out every time. It's now been about two years. This is completely ridiculous and an affront to those of us who paid money for the game.

According to his latest promise, he has until March 1 to come up with the update. I hope he makes it but because of past performance I'm not positive about it.

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/24/2004 4:19:16 PM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

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Being as I see each and every thing through the eyes of a wargamer, I have to think of this in wargame result based notionals.

Ok one, Rich bought a product. Generally where cash is concerned we usually have expectations.

Brent has promised Rich it would get done eventually. And a man's promise is only worth as much as he makes it.

But hmm, problem is Brent has his foot in other projects. Personally, me looking from the outside in on this issue, I would rather Brent was sitting slaving over his portion of Combat Leader if he was tasked doing anything eh :) (hey I said I planned to be a nuisance on Combat Leader, sorry).

I think after this much time, it probably doesn't matter what Brent said any longer. And he wouldn't be the first person to make a promise he couldn't keep eh.

As long as MC-LV works, I think that is in the end all that is vital to the issue. It would be nice if all the MCs were sheer perfection. But sometimes you have to accept less than sheer perfection.

Now I wonder, how important to Rich would all this be, if he had to invest a postage stamp each time he wanted to communicate on the matter.
Forums simply make doing some things a bit to easy perhaps.

Rich, cut your losses and just stop killing yourself over this.
Its not like you bought something like HoI :)

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/24/2004 7:12:22 PM

rich12545

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I totally disagree.

First, he didn't promise he'd do it eventually. He promised he'd have it done by the end of 2002. Then he promised he'd have it done by summer of 2003. Then he promised he'd have it done by the end of Feb 2004. Frankly, I don't care what other projects he's workiing on, he hasn't finished mclv and it's past time he does. Way past time. And I don't care about HoI either. We've all bought our share of lemons over the years. That is totally immaterial. The point is mclv. It's not done. It's been TWO YEARS. It should take maybe 5-10 hours or so to complete the game. And it's been TWO YEARS. It's a total affront to those of us who paid for the game. Have you? If so then you should be as mad as I am. If not, then with all due respect your opinion in this matter doesn't mean much.

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BUT YOU PROMISED!!! - 2/24/2004 8:14:40 PM

Gary Tatro

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You sound like a little kid. What kind of world do you live in Rich? Everything black and white?

You paid $30 for a game. That you have not even played!
If you trully own an RV then you spend more than that filling up your gas tank every week. Get over it, move on.

I don't know what is more pathetic, your single handed crusade to get some additional documentation into a game, or the fact that you still hold onto this idea that Brent gives a sh*t what you think. Why don't you play a few games online where cheating is rampent and the gaming company doesn't care.

It's to bad that Matrix does not have a rant forum, then you could go and post there and save me the time of reading your posts.

And yes I bought MCLV, yes I have played it all the way to Rostov. No I will never finish it, not because it is lacking documentation, but becuase it is to big and I have other things to do.

< Message edited by Gary Tatro -- 2/24/2004 3:21:11 PM >

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RE: I It's almost time - 2/24/2004 8:19:59 PM

Wild Bill

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Rich, thanks for your support of Matrix and the purchase of the Mega-Campaigns. That says a lot to me. It tells me that you are not just a kibitzer from the outside who only wants to criticize. It also tells me that you support what Matrix does and only want what you have been promised. I can't find fault with that.

Since I was the project coordinator for three of the Mega Campaigns, I hope that they prove to be highly enjoyable for you. Please let me know. And if I have dropped the ball anywhere, let me know.

Some things I can't fix. There are some problems in the MCs that are code related. Those are out of reach. But if there is anyting in the content that is amiss, we'll fix it.

I hope this is resolved for you. Let's let it rest until the appointed time and then we can speak further on the matter.

Again, thanks for your support of the Mega Campaigns.

WB

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Post #: 26

RE: BUT YOU PROMISED!!! - 2/24/2004 9:15:08 PM

rich12545

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Real frankly I don't care what I sound like to you.

I started out with a simple request a year and a half ago. Finish the game. At a minimum come online and let us know what the hangup is. Keep us informed. Brent doesn't finish the game and he doesn't even let us know what's going on. He only posts in response to my pressure and to make another promise six months hence. Then he doesn't produce or even post with progress, if any. To me that shows total arrogance and a complete uncaring attitude to those who bought the product. If he would post from time to time and let us know what's going on I'd be happy. "It's about half done." "I've had other things but I'll have time next month." But there's nothing. I can't believe his "screw the customer" attitude. If you don't like my periodic prodding to get this done then tough.

And yes, I really travel in my rv. Today I put in about $40 gas at $2.10 a gallon. One thing has nothing to do with another, gas and games are apples and oranges. You and I paid for a completed game and we deserve to get what we paid for. If you don't care about that then that's your choice. If I choose differently then you have no business demeaning that choice.

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RE: BUT YOU PROMISED!!! - 2/24/2004 9:27:58 PM

harlekwin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Tatro

It's to bad that Matrix does not have a rant forum, then you could go and post there and save me the time of reading your posts.

We do have a 'rant forum' it is called the 'Art of Wargaming'.

Rich is NOT 'ranting' he is expressing concern over a product he bought. I do not know the details of his methods but I do know that he has the right as a consumer, and by policy to express himslef on the matter here as long as he is respectful and not deceitful. He has never been rude that I have seen although I do find his campaign to be a bit Quixotic whatever gets him through the day.

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RE: BUT YOU PROMISED!!! - 2/24/2004 9:33:50 PM

rich12545

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Hi Bill,

The ONLY criticism I've ever had about spwaw is the completion of mclv. As you know from my posts I am 110% positive about all other aspects of the game. If there are things that can't be fixed, then so be it. Nothing can be done about that. This is my favorite game and I play it as much as time allows.

Soon I expect to have the time to start playing campaigns and then megas. I'm looking forward to it. It would be nice if mclv is completed by then. If you have any influence with Brent, please ask him to just finish it.

Actually I was letting it go in response to KG's post but have been replying to those who have posted since.

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RE: BUT YOU PROMISED!!! - 2/26/2004 1:37:16 AM

Tombstone

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Just reading this thread makes me crack up. PLAY MCLV RICH!!! It's good, stop with this madness. Play it, play it, play it! It is good. You have no idea how irrelevant that stuff at the end is. It is good. Matrix is MEGA aware of your issue, so continued dissent will go nowhere. It'll happen eventually, that I believe... but in the meantime have a good time with the money you spent. It is so worth it. Unless you have like 20 hours a week for SPWAW it'll take a LONG time to get through LV... Before you're done the fix will come through. I understand that this is a philosophy issue, but practical reality can be a lot more favorable to you in this instance.

Tomo

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Post #: 30