Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

The Japanese lost over 200 men trying to take this island. Yes they outnumbered the americans about 5000 to 500 but it wasnt just a cakewalk. Yes it should be easy for the Japanese to take but there should be an American representation here and not just emptiness.

The Americans suffered about 20 killed and 40 wounded. Plus hundreds of POW's.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

The Japanese lost over 200 men trying to take this island. Yes they outnumbered the americans about 5000 to 500 but it wasnt just a cakewalk. Yes it should be easy for the Japanese to take but there should be an American representation here and not just emptiness.

The Americans suffered about 20 killed and 40 wounded. Plus hundreds of POW's.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun

Correct; that agrees with my sources too. The Japanese had to try twice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun

Correct; that agrees with my sources too. The Japanese had to try twice.

That's for Wake. The thread starter was talking about Guam, which was a cakewalk, in the game and in history.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

The Japanese lost over 200 men trying to take this island. Yes they outnumbered the americans about 5000 to 500 but it wasnt just a cakewalk. Yes it should be easy for the Japanese to take but there should be an American representation here and not just emptiness.

The Americans suffered about 20 killed and 40 wounded. Plus hundreds of POW's.

Hmmm...here are the sites I found on the net.

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:nUcGl1kR5XQJ:www.militaryfocus.com/osprey/campaign/139.htm+guam+1941&hl=en

"The island of Guam was the first Allied territory lost to the Japanese onslaught in 1941. On 10 December 5,000 Japanese troops landed on Guam, defended by less than 500 US and Guamanian troops, the outcome was beyond doubt."


http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:jqokeZz8WM8J:www.guam.navy.mil/story3.html+guam+1941&hl=en

"According to the book titled “Occupation/Invasion 1941-1944,” written and compiled by Historian Pedro C. Sanchez in 1979, several houses and stores in Agana — now known as Hagåtña — were badly damaged during the attack. The island was forced to submit to the Japanese army after roughly 6,000 Japanese soldiers stormed the island and captured the100-man insular force guard and 125 Marines at the Navy-Marine barracks. The Japanese soldiers outnumbered the island’s forces and had control within six hours from the beginning of the attack.

At sundown, exactly 5:45 p.m. on Dec. 10, the Japanese army had officially taken rule of the island after repeatedly bombing the island for three days. Immediately after the attacks were concluded, Japanese soldiers then forced Guam’s Governor/Commandant McMillin, a U.S. Navy captain, to remove his trousers and coat as a sign of surrender.

As a result of the invasion, according to Sanchez’s records, 13 U.S. Navy and Marine Corps officers and men were killed, including an American civilian and four members of the insular force guard. The records also indicate that 30 to 40 Chamorro civilians were killed, while 37 U.S. Navy and Marine Corps officers were wounded during the invasion."




http://www.mansell.com/pow_resources/guam/aganaplaza.html


"Also known as Susanna Plaza, it was the scene of the only battle to occur in the Japanese seizure of Guam, just before dawn, Wednesday, 10 December 1941. During this battle, the bombing for the previous two days and the landing on the beaches, 17 American military men and Guamanian Insular Guard men died. Over 200 Japanese were to die in the short battle on the plaza. Most of the Japanese entered the plaza from the north and northwest, the last shots being fired from behind the Government House."


An interesting story: This site says the battle took 2 days and there were 700 defending.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:yoINPPYMGcoJ:www.thepeoplenews.com/May04/page18.html+guam+1941+killed&hl=en

"The largest weapons on Guam were .30 caliber machine guns and only 700 marines and sailors were stationed there. On December 10, 1941, Guam was hit by a landing force of 6,000 Japanese troops. In just two days, the defenders were overrun and almost out of ammunition. Of course, many of them had also been killed, so the survivors decided to surrender."

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 6/30/2004 2:33:35 PM >

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(in reply to AmiralLaurent)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McNaughton

I highly doubt that 200 Japanese died in that engagement, and only 17 US/Guam soldiers died. The US were barely able to get such drastically high casualty odds even with heavy artillery support, and they had none on Guam.

I got this:
"The principal engagement took place on Agaña’s Plaza de Espana, beginning at 04.45hrs, between a few marines and Insular Force Guardsmen on one side and the SNLF on the other. After token resistance a ceasefire was called at 05.45hrs and the Governor surrendered at 06.00, 10 December, making Guam the first piece of American territory to fall into Japanese hands."

from this site. Token resistance would NOT mean 200 dead Japanese... Numbers were probably inflated post-war for propaganda purposes.

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php?per=47&title=S8111&view=spread&view=extract

quote:

ORIGINAL: gunnergoz

quote:

ORIGINAL: McNaughton

I highly doubt that 200 Japanese died in that engagement, and only 17 US/Guam soldiers died. The US were barely able to get such drastically high casualty odds even with heavy artillery support, and they had none on Guam.

I got this:
"The principal engagement took place on Agaña’s Plaza de Espana, beginning at 04.45hrs, between a few marines and Insular Force Guardsmen on one side and the SNLF on the other. After token resistance a ceasefire was called at 05.45hrs and the Governor surrendered at 06.00, 10 December, making Guam the first piece of American territory to fall into Japanese hands."

from this site. Token resistance would NOT mean 200 dead Japanese... Numbers were probably inflated post-war for propaganda purposes.

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php?per=47&title=S8111&view=spread&view=extract

I concur, except that the time for propaganda was during the war, not post-war. Post war casualty assessment errors were sloppy or incomplete scholarship and research.

quote:

ORIGINAL: brisd

While stationed at Guam in 1995 I saw memorials to the US Marines who died in the invasion of '41. I don't recall the numbers involved but that it was over quickly and not much of a fight. If WITP had every company of men at every base accounted for then we'd be waiting for WITP as long as we have "Pacific Tide"...