Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Scenario Design: Historicity vs Playability

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Scenario Design: Historicity vs Playability Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Scenario Design: Historicity vs Playability - 6/2/2000 8:13:00 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Arguments about reality vs historicity have gone on in scenario design forever it seems. Just how historical does a scenario have to be to be historical? That is a debatable question. In my mind, the scenario designer is striving for a proper mix of challenge and accurate historical representation (provided the battle is a historical one). In a sense, there is no such thing as a totally historical recreation. No one knows where every tree and shell hole were on the battlefield, or how many rounds of ammo each unit had, or the names of all the tank commanders or squad leaders. Most of us rely on the word of historians. We weren't there. We don't know. And historians sometimes differ in their description of the battle. Ultimately it is the choice of the designer. Mixing both (historicity and playability) is no easy task. That is why some opt only for hypothetical situations (G). You can't go wrong there! But I like reliving the moment, recreating the feel of the actual battle. Now that may mean making some adjustments that might not have been in the actual battle to give it that "feel." So actually no one can lay claim to a "totally historical scenario." In my mind, ain't no such thing. But you get as close as you can based on the information that you have and flavor it enough to make it fun. Every once in a while a designer will create an unwinnable scenario. His reason? I want it to show the actual battle and its outcome. Okay. That is his choice. In such a case, a note should be attached in the text file explaining that. Ultimately, in most "historical" scenarios, there is going to have to be a little tolerance. That does not mean just throwing in units to have them there. Strive for accuracy. I saw a map once of a Pacific Island that had absolutely NO resemblance to the real thing. Now here, I would have to say the author is in error, stating that the battle is "historical." It is hard to have a fixed rule, and a lot of it is done by feel that comes through experience. I want a scenario to be historical but I want it to be fun and challenging. And that is my diatribe of the day...Wild Bill ------------------ Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

_____________________________


In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant
Post #: 1
- 6/4/2000 3:50:00 AM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		I have found that making a scenario as historic as possible tends to make it not as much fun to play as it is not as balanced. I have designed many scenarios that are very accurate historically, but do not get high ratings because the outcome is so preordained. I tend to design my scenarios on the historic side. Many of my East Front scenarios can be played to alter the outcome of the battle historically, but it will be a real challenge. Sometimes I design the scenario to recreate an actual battle as close as possible. I Did this with "Wittmann's Rampage/Gamble". When I do this I am trying to give the feel of the real battle, the tension, the decisions, the emotions. Not may scenarios lend themselves to this kind of recreation. I think "The Hill" is another example, as is"Brave men at betio", the original, not the kinder, Gentler version. It is a tough call deciding between hsitoricity and playability. The rule I follow is generally, the more historic, the less balanced ------------------ Grenadier SPWAW Beta Team

_____________________________


(in reply to Wild Bill)
Post #: 2
- 6/4/2000 5:25:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Well said, Grenadier! So we try to make the best of both worlds for you guys; as historical as we can be and still be fun and challenging. That is our goal in the Raider group. Wild Bill ------------------ Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

_____________________________


In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to Wild Bill)
Post #: 3
- 6/4/2000 7:19:00 AM   
Fabio Prado

 

Posts: 503
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		This is really an interesting topic. I really love Historically accurate scenarios. In fact, some of my all-time favorites are Brent Grenadier Richards "Last Stand of 78th Sturm", "Wittmann's Gamble" and "The Hill". I also, however, love "fictional" ones, "Saving Private Ryan" (Wild Bill Wilder) is tops in this category. When it comes to building scenarios, however, I always tend to try to satisfy my own curiosity about how certain types of equipment go together, and/or how a Tiger I Company goes against a IS-2 Company under certain circumstances, and then do my best to provide a tough one for both sides... That's what I've tried do with "Tigers In The Snow", "Day of The Tiger" and now With "Tomarovka"... Maybe that translates into some kind of "playability" but I'm not that sure... The bottom line is that although I surely love Historically accurate scenarios (and have a tremendous respect for the guys who built them) I simply don´t enjoy building a Historically accurate scenario as I do with a fictional one. I sure like playing both types, sure. Fabio Prado

_____________________________


(in reply to Wild Bill)
Post #: 4
- 6/4/2000 1:58:00 PM   
bigjim

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 6/3/2000
Status: offline 		[ For me if the senario is "historical" then I want it to start "before" all is lost, I like seeing if my tactics can change history but in some of these senario's the "starting point" is "after" the tactical mistakes have been made and therefore the outcome is assured. This just a waste of computer space for me and as I identify these I delete them from my game. I think also that designers must take into consideration the "limits" of the game and NOT just use historical numbers, the AI gets some advantages not enjoyed in history BigJim

_____________________________


(in reply to Wild Bill)
Post #: 5
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Scenario Design: Historicity vs Playability Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.235